Taliesin (studio) has been listed as one of the
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A fact from Taliesin (studio) appeared on Wikipedia's
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Did you know column on 6 November 2014 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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This Article states the murderer's name was Julian Carlston, not Carlton:
WILD NEGRO CHEF KILLS 6, WOUNDS 4; Former Mrs. C.H. Cheney of Chicago Murdered in Cottage of Frank Lloyd Wright. SLAYS ONE AFTER THE OTHER Sets Fire to Building and One More Victim May Be In the Ruins.
Special to The New York Times.. New York Times (1857-Current file). New York, N.Y.: Aug 16, 1914. p. 12 (1 page)
The following article indicates that 5 were murdered, not 7, though this is most likely a mistake. This article uses the name Carlton: $500,000 FIRE IN BUNGALOW.; Wisconsin Architect Loses Home of Valuable Prints. New York Times. Apr 22, 1925. p. 9 Hobga ( talk) 04:14, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
My friend and I were debating the pronunciation of this word. That guide is completely worthless, in my opinion. Can someone add an audible pronunciation, or something? Thanks, MKultra
If there's enough use for a disambiguation page, I'd think you'd want links back from the various articles... dm 01:44, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I believe that references to Delgado need to be removed from this page. My reasons are below.
I have not been able to find any evidence that Delgado worked under Frank Lloyd Wright, or in his Taliesin studio. While I have looked, there is no correspondence between him and Wright at Wright's archives in Scottsdale, Arizona, nor are there any remembrances of him from written memoirs of those who worked with Wright at approximately this same time.
In addition, on Delgado's Wikipedia page, there is a photograph of him "Working in stained windows for Frank Lloyd Wright, 1933." However, Wright wasn't designing stained glass windows by that time; and he never designed stained glass windows that looked like the ones near Delgado in the photograph.
And, finally, the only direct reference that Wright supposedly made about Delgado is on Delgado's Wikipedia page; aside from that, I can find no other corroborating evidence. I think that references to him need to be taken out until an independent source can show that he had a relationship to Frank Lloyd Wright or his studio.
Marykeiran ( talk) 16:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
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Reviewer: CaroleHenson ( talk · contribs) 21:02, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
The article is well-written and interesting. It provides quite a lot of background about Wright's heritage, history, and events that occurred at Taliesin over his lifetime. It is well cited with reliable, verifiable sources. It generally follows Manual of Style guidelines for layout, sections, words to watch and lists. There are a couple of suggestions below regarding the sections and layout. There is no evidence of original research.
It is certainly broad in its coverage, but there are places in which there is more detail provided than is needed, particularly where there are links to background information in other articles. The article is written with a neutral point of view and is stable. There is good use of images in the public domain. The article seems to be well-paraphrased from the source material.
It might be helpful to clarify the subject of the article and the title. The title gives the impression that the article is about Wright's studio, which was just one part of Taliesin III / Taliesin East, which encompasses multiple historic properties that make up the Historic Landmark and National Register of Historic Places listing. Is the intention to cover the landmark? Or, just the Taliesin III building on the site?
To be clear, though, the article title is not a criteria for the GA review. I am bringing this up just to help hone in on the subject and focus of the article. To be clearer, I suggest remaining it, perhaps to Taliesin East since it's been called that since 1937.
In general, it seems like there's a lot of background information -- Wright's marriage, the killings, etc. What I'm thinking is it would be helpful to have a clear break-out of 1) history, 2) subject (Taliesin East / Taliesin III?) and 3) what has happened to the property since Wright's death in chronological order would be helpful. And, perhaps summarize some of the information, like the section about Wright, that can be found in his article.
The NRHP nomination form does a good job of describing the property and honing in on Taliesin III house/building, for instance. (I had to download it to view it.)
Rather than starting a list of minor edits, I just went ahead and made them (e.g., set out to rebuild-->rebuilt) as I went along. See what you think, though, about whether the edits are helpful or not. I meant to save time for both of us, not exclude you.
I see that there's been some updates as I've done some minor editing, so I thought I'd post what I have right now for the review. There may be some tweaks... but I think it's pretty much covers the material.
Great job, by the way, it's a very interesting topic... because of the background stories, it makes it a little trickier... but on the whole you've done a very good job.-- CaroleHenson ( talk) 18:17, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
<< Update for 2020, there are numerous citations for books that are not behaving correctly (i.e. Template:Sfn). They are not displaying as they should and act as a combined reference to their associated books. This makes it difficult for many to assess validity. Does anyone know how to fix? Would it be better to try a different method of citation instead? ALSO, some of the passages attributed seem like direct quotes from the referring books without greater care to crediting the biographer(s) and acknowledging possible bias of those authors. I don't have the books available at present to compare. Can anyone review?
Roxanne-snowden (
talk) 13:09, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
at first, i was just going to ask--who was the surviving witness that was present when Mamah was murdered and whose statement allowed for the indictment of calrton? this reads that there were only 3 people present--Mamah and the 2 children, and that 2 died immediately, and the young girl was chased down and killed on the patio. or did she survive long enough to make a statement?
then, i was trying to find an answer (and wanted to add in the ages of the children at the time of the murders because that seems like a common-enough question that people might have, especially the boy's age ((as i was wondering, if he was closer to 18, how Carlton could have so easily killed him))), and came across this page, that has some of the facts a bit different: http://www.morethancurds.com/2012/10/haunted-wisconsin-julian-carlton.html yes, i'm not sure about the source, but... also, there's an interesting theory presented in the comments on that page. i'm wondering if others have written about this theory and if it should, then, be mentioned here?? just a note--i put in the ages but had to guess, without birth dates, and later changed the boy's age to reflect what i read on other pages. Colbey84 ( talk) 05:39, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
In response, I have found numerous contemporary (1914) publications regarding the murder/attack that could be of use to describing events. The existing info appears to be strongly related to a singular source (perhaps it is a copy-paste from the biographer's book?). I was taken aback by the multiple "sfn" templates for the same few books throughout the wikipedia page. After reading about these forms of citation, something is obvious occurring in error and failing to generate appropriately. I want to review advice about why this is not appearing as intended and also review the book pages referenced before making any additions, alterations or mention of separate theories/facts. Written with care, expanding knowledge about the subject, including myths, overlooked facts and interpretations, can help provide a framework for further research and reference.
Roxanne-snowden (
talk) 12:02, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
The article says that Borthwick's grave is unmarked. But in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3juSckHif90 the documentary film-maker found such a marker. I would add this to the article, but I'm not confident about how to cite a YouTube video. Peter Jedicke ( talk) 08:52, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
I understand that this term is sometimes used reflexively, and perhaps euphemistically for black Americans -- or, if you like -- for Americans of sub-Saharan African ancestry. The term has some very appropriate usages, analogous to other "X-American" usages, in a nation where citizenship/nationality is -- at least ideally -- much more important than ethnicity (e.g. Irish-American, Chinese-American). This is different than "Old World" countries like England, or Italy, or Serbia, or China, or India. There is no American ethnicity.
That said, "African-American" is NOT a substitute for "black" (or whatever preferred term for this ethnicity). There are all sorts of people who might be called "black" who are not "American" (e.g. much or most of sub-Saharan Africa, most or much of the West Indies, a significant portion of South America, and, arguably, a significant portion of Canada).
Carlton, according to the article, is of immediate Barbadian ancestry. Therefore, he was not African-American, or at least the term is confusing.
It seems to me that the article should refer to him as simply "black" or "a black man of West Indian ancestry" or "a black American of Barbadian origin" or something more specific such as "a black American born to Barbadian parents" etc.
It really isn't a matter of being pedantic. Cartlon's parents were immigrants from Barbados, and in the culture of the United States, that is an important distinction. To pretend otherwise is doing a disservice to the complicated history of Africans in the New World. And it is important in understanding the mystery of Cartlon's character -- whatever we think about him, one of the few certainties is that he was an American who had roots in the West Indies.
StrangeAttractor ( talk) 07:49, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
<< This is a response to the above comment. There is a website for Barbados locals and they sought community help in determining the genealogy of Gertrude and Julian Carlton. The most interesting was the discovery that maybe Julian entered the US with a different first name, as an adult. The presumption was that Gertrude immigrated with her husband. Is there evidence instead that Julian was born in the USA (or otherwise immigrated as a child) with his parents coming from Barbados? (That seems like that was the alluded to suggestion above.) Doing a records search, there is a possible contemporary person with the same name from Alabama (which I have seen cited as a claim that Barbados decent was a lie), but this seems to be a modern theory and perhaps due to an overzealous review of ancestry dot com (the record indicates that the Alabamian J.C. was married to someone else). Its unclear as to whether or not Julian and Gertrude spoke with an accent, to what extent if so, and whether anyone who knew the couple in the US could authenticate it. There seemed to be a consensus that at least Julian was from Barbados. That may have been important, as he possibly was not a US citizen. In 1914, WW1 broke out and Britain had just entered (Barbados was a colony). In the preceding years, there had been growing racial tensions too (which would later result in a series of riots). Its possible inclusion of Barbados served to differentiate the Carltons from African-Americans. Its hard to say as theories often evolve in hindsight.
Regarding using the term African-American, I agree, the acceptable use would be to use 'Black' (unless necessary use of direct quotes, which referenced the then contemporary use of 'Negro'). Referring to Carlton as a Barbadian, or Bajan, would be appropriate. There doesn't seem to be any imperative need to draw much attention to race or nationality, as that wasn't determined to be an extraordinary factor. (I found an article to cite later that discusses that some theories masquerading as fact online on the reasons for Julian's actions, as being race related, arose from a fictional story about the events in the 1990s.) Roxanne-snowden ( talk) 13:02, 13 July 2020 (UTC)