Susanna Hoffs (
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I think the "forthcoming solo album" listed in her discography could be the covers album she recorded with Matthew Sweet (Under the Covers, Vol. 1). Or does she have another one? -
WordsAmp 11:40, 2 March 06 (EST)
Middle name
IMDB lists her middle name as "Lee". I haven't been able to verify this, but I still added it. "--
Madman332 18:56, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)"
Birth year
According to IMDB, NNDB, Allmusic.com, Susanna is born in 1959. However, various other sites lists her as born in 1957. A google search for "Susanna Hoffs 1959" returns the same amount of hits as "Susanna Hoffs 1957". www.anybirthday.com doesn't list her at all. I don't know where to get this verified, but I'm going with 1959 for now because at least Allmusic.com and IMDB has some credibility. "--
Madman332 18:56, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)"
It is amazing however: She likes very youthful on the 2003 promo photograph: Is it an older photograph? Or does she really looks like this in this days?
On the other hand: some people can keep more fresh than others. Most peope would think of me as twenty five, although i am more than ten years older...
At least one source has Susanna Hoffs listed for a 1957 birthday. In interviews, Hoffs has given rather unconvincing, convoluted explanations for how the 1957 birthdate came into circulation. Perhaps, it's the approach of the "big 5-0" that is the reason for the lack of clarity on the birthdate. By the way, has she had a facelift?
According to Ancestry.com birth records, she was born in 1959.
Mad Jack 07:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)reply
That said, since Susanna is one of the most beautiful women ever to have existed, it is entirely possible that we mere mortals judge her chronological age cynically. Few people had the same problem with Sofia Loren in "The Cassandra Crossing", during the filming of which she was 103, yet still had a 24 inch waist.
Hoffs a "rhythm guitarist" inaccurate
Describing Susanna Hoffs as a "rhythm guitarist" is inaccurate. Despite playing mostly rhythm guitar she also played a few (simple) lead parts while with The Bangles. (The Bangles: Return to Bangleonia, DVD, 2007)
The term "rhythm guitarist" applied as an adjective to any person should be avoided. The term describes a "role" a guitarist might fill at any given time. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_guitar)
I disagree. Many guitarists are only comfortable in a rhythm role, even if they are able to play as a lead. However, many lead guitarists are unsuited to playing a rhythm part. It is a similar distinction to first and second violins, i.e. same instrument, different technique. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
81.107.183.201 (
talk) 20:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)reply
Additional citations
Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added?
Hyacinth (
talk) 20:38, 17 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Sources
The article needs more sources and has been tagged accordingly for quite some time.
SunCrow (
talk) 02:09, 11 February 2020 (UTC)reply
Info box
I suggest removing "Height". Would any article about a MALE rock/pop musician includes his body dimensions? (Plus, we ALL get shorter as we, especially in our inter-vetebrae discs, age.)
Acwilson9 (
talk) 20:14, 19 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Place of birth
AllMusic has "Hoffs was born in Newport Beach, California"
We are not supposed to use the California Birth Index for the personal information of living people, but it says she was born in Los Angeles County. Newport Beach is in Orange County. Perhaps her parents moved to Newport Beach when she was an infant.
Binksternet (
talk) 23:15, 16 August 2023 (UTC)reply
Also, the 2004 book
Complete UK Hit Singles 1952-2006 says she was born in Los Angeles, the Peterson sisters also born in L.A., and bass player Annette born in Van Nuys. Of course I can see all the sources saying Newport Beach, so we have contradiction in the literature.
Binksternet (
talk) 23:27, 16 August 2023 (UTC)reply
I'll look for some more sources. Whichever loation is used in the article text, seems like we should add a footnote about the conflicting info in sources.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 23:33, 16 August 2023 (UTC)reply
Some more sources below very inconsistent in year of birth!
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 00:09, 17 August 2023 (UTC)reply
Newport Beach
Brennan, Luann; McConnell, Stacy A (1998) Contemporary musicians. : profiles of the people in music (has 1957 as year of birth)
The New Rolling Stone encyclopedia of rock & roll (1995) (has 1957 as year of birth)
Cline, Camille People entertainment almanac, 1998 (1997) (has 1957 as year of birth)
Strong, M. C. The great alternative & indie discography (1999) (has 1957 as year of birth)
Q rock stars encyclopedia (1999) (has 1957 as year of birth)
Baker's biographical dictionary of musicians (2001) (has 1959 as year of birth!)
Oseary, Guy Jews who rock (2001) (has 1961 as year of birth)
The Guinness who's who of Indie and new wave (1995) (has 1962 as year of birth)
Larkin, Colin The encyclopedia of popular music (1998) (has 1962 as year of birth)
Los Angeles
Betts, Graham Collins complete British hit albums (2005) (has 1957 as year of birth)
The Rolling stone encyclopedia of rock & roll (2001) (hs 1959 as year of birth!); 2005 edition has the same.
I'm thinking Newport Beach is fiction, and that Hoffs grew up solely in Los Angeles. After college she returned to her parents house and answered an ad for bandmates. Vicki Peterson showed up and they rehearsed in the Hoffs parents' garage which had been converted into Susanna's bachelor pad.
[1][2] That garage is described as being in
Brentwood[3][4] which is an upscale L.A. neighborhood a little bit east of the beach city Santa Monica. The Los Angeles Times wrote that Hoffs and
David Roback both grew up in Brentwood and went to the same schools.
[5] They both went to Palisades High School.
[6] There's nothing in the literature about her growing up in Newport Beach, going to schools there, having childhood friends there. There's nothing about a Newport Beach hospital being the place of birth.
Binksternet (
talk) 03:33, 17 August 2023 (UTC)reply
Lead
@
Landplane123: I don't think that your recent edits to the lead of the article are in line with
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, which states that "In Wikipedia, the lead section is an introduction to an article and a summary of its most important contents." The information that you placed in the lead could be added to the article body, but putting it in the lead doesn't seem appropriate: the one-off performances are quite incidental IMO, and we don't usually single out particular reviews in the lead. I'm minded to revert the lead back to the previous version and add some of the additional info into the body, but I'm opening the discussion here first, for you or any other interested editor to reply/comment before I go ahead. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 00:35, 24 August 2023 (UTC)reply
I share your view on the matter.
Binksternet (
talk) 01:05, 24 August 2023 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your feedback.
I've pared it down as you suggested. Does this work?
She has released five solo studio albums which yielded two charting singles, the top-40 hit, My Side of the Bed and All I Want which charted in the top-100.[1]
Hoffs released her debut novel, This Bird Has Flown: A Novel, (published by
Little Brown) in 2023, which received favorable reviews.[2][3]Universal Pictures purchased the rights to the novel for a screen adaptation.[4]
@
Landplane123: I've expanded the lead, whilst retaining the information that you added to it there. I've also added that to the body, and slightly expanded on it, e.g. to specify where some of the good reviews for her book came from in the text. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 21:40, 1 September 2023 (UTC)reply
I had nominated this as a good article after doing quite a lot of work on it, but I've de-nominated as there are too many issues now.
Landplane123: You seem to have attempted to add a second, uncited, lead into the Career section, and it's all short paragraphs. You've added at least one claim that is not supported by the source cited. Solo career has been converted to almost a list rather than prose. I've not been through all the changes, but you seem to have been removing negative commentary and adding positive commentary, which would likely be in violation of
Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. I'd suggest you read the
Wikipedia:Manual of Style.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 11:02, 10 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your feedback, I really appreciate it. I will revert the list of albums back to prose. With some of the edits, I changed the language is some instances to "mixed reviews" rather than just negative reviews as I added some positive reviews in with the negative ones. I didn't remove any of the negative reviews, I alternated them to reflect both positive and negative reviews.
For the career section, would it be acceptable to move some of the more detailed content in the lead in to the career section? I didn't include all of the detailed content to the career section as I wanted to see if it would be acceptable at all to add that section. Also, I will provide the requested citation.
Thank you so much for nominating this as a good article. I hope that after I make your suggested edits, you will consider nominating it again. I'm a huge fan of Susanna's work and have really enjoyed learning so much more about her career and documenting it in her article.
When You're a Boy: the text previously read "The album received a negative critical reception", cited to Zeck (1995) which describes the album as " rather poorly received". You have changed this to "The album received mixed reviews" using the same source which is a misrepresentation.
The Allnighter: the text previously read "which was a commercial and critical failure" (in the lead). The body had three negative reviews cited as well as a source for text that it was commercially unsuccessful. You have changed the text to say that it "received mixed reviews". A somewhat positive comment on Hoffs's performance from the LA Times is included. That review also uses phrases such as "utterly lacking in any irreverence or insight", "woefully short on fresh ideas" and " a total snooze, a failed beach-bunny comedy that misses the perfect wave--by a mile". From the comments I've seen about the movie (including at
at Rotten Tomatoes), I don't see how the reviews for the film can be described as mixed rather than poor.
Why remove Larkin's comment "The Bangles folded in 1989 partly because Susanna Hoffs was being touted as the 'star' in a previously egalitarian band. It is ironic, therefore, that her solo career failed to come close to the success enjoyed by her old band."? Admittedly it should be paraphrased but he's a significant commentator and I though this was an interesting view.
There are numerous style issues. Why have you added repetition at the start of the career section? Quotes should be in quotation marks, not italics. See
MOS:QUOTATIONS (and
MOS:CURLY.) Titles of publications should be in italics. (
MOS:ITALICTITLE.)
I really don't have the will to go through the whole article and look for more issues. These ones just jumped out at me.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 00:27, 19 October 2023 (UTC)reply
I will revert the reviews and correct the quotations.
I agree with the views expressed by BennyOnTheLoose. Let's not make this into a puff-piece and ignore neutrality.
Binksternet (
talk) 03:24, 19 October 2023 (UTC)reply
Agreed. Reverted reviews and original content as well as correcting quotations. Thank you for your feedback.
Landplane123 (
talk) 04:24, 19 October 2023 (UTC)Landplane123reply
Made the corrections that you suggested. Thank you for your feedback and support. It's always greatly appreciated!
Landplane123 (
talk) 04:31, 19 October 2023 (UTC)Landplane123reply
Career section
I really don't understand why there should be a summary of the career in that section, before the individual subheadings. I don't think that this level of repetition is useful for readers, or is in the spirit of
WP:LEAD. In the Career section, I'd like to remove any unrepeated information fom the the text above "The Psychiatrists and the Unconscious" to the relevant sections below, and delete the rest. Any opinions? Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 15:54, 3 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I agree that the redundancy added in October by
Landplane123 is not good. Remove the heading "Career" along with the summary, and upgrade the subsections by one level.
We should reorganize her career chronologically, making a pre-Bangs section followed by a Bangs/Bangles section.
Binksternet (
talk) 17:52, 3 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Please feel free to remove content as you see fit.
Landplane123 (
talk) 23:19, 3 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the input. I'll take this as consensus to proceed. Ping me if you have any concerns. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 00:22, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
There are three paragraphs commented out at the moment - I think these have some info not already in the later text so will work on these later. Regards,
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 01:20, 5 January 2024 (UTC)reply
I've removed that. Placing some of the text here that I didnt go through so closely.
BennyOnTheLoose (
talk) 00:41, 24 January 2024 (UTC)reply
This is a really good article! Very thorough, very well written, with a nice encyclopedic tone throughout. The sources are very impressive, it seems like a lot of care was taken, which is good for a biography of a living person. Very nice! :D
The discography and filmography section is consistent with others on Wikipedia, which I like. The lead section gives a nice summary of her notable songs and a brief history of her film roles, including her first and other important ones. It seems pretty well organized to me, I especially like how her most notable work is at the top and her following works go into lower paragraphs in the lead. I think the prose in general (but especially the lead) could be shortened down in some sections, but that would be a future improvement if it was going for featured article status ;p
There is lots of extra details, but they are not necessarily out of scope. The lead gives a good overview of what is included in the scope. I do appreciate that there is coverage on her solo career as well as her involvement in the Bangles, it makes the article a bit more cohesive.
Very good use of media all around! One edit I might recommend is to find a different picture to replace the image captioned "Hoffs in 2008," as it doesn't seem particularly relevant to that section. But this is pedantic- the image itself looks good, which is good enough for good article status!
Overall:
Pass, fail or on hold:
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
ALT3: ... that Susanna Hoffs(pictured), using the pseudonym Gillian Shagwell, was part of the faux 1960s band
Ming Tea, with
Mike Myers and
Matthew Sweet, which performed in all three Austin Powers movies? Source: Abbey, Cherie D.; Hillstrom, Kevin (2004). Biography Today: Performing Artists. Detroit: Omnigraphics. ISBN 978-0-7808-0709-9; "
Q&A With Susanna Hoffs And Matthew Sweet". Magnet Magazine, July 20, 2009
I shall review this. It may take time, in which case: if the review appears unfinished, please be patient. Thank you.
Storye book (
talk) 10:33, 10 April 2024 (UTC)reply