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Rodeo cattle

Proposing that the new article Rodeo cattle be merged into Rodeo. Tim Pierce ( talk) 00:56, 1 September 2009 (UTC) reply

Is there really any information worth merging? - Josette ( talk) 03:27, 1 September 2009 (UTC) reply
Not much, but there sure isn't enough information for its own article. :-) Tim Pierce ( talk) 04:10, 1 September 2009 (UTC) reply
Couldn't agree more. ;) - Josette ( talk) 04:23, 1 September 2009 (UTC) reply
Seems there's been a consensus to merge the article, but nothing has been done. I'll go ahead and be bold now... Steven Walling 21:48, 24 September 2009 (UTC) reply

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References

Montana, posting here after seeing the post at ANI. References such as http://www.collegerodeo.com/ (NIRA) and Animal Welfare: Animals in Rodeo (among others) are still bare URLs because they provide nothing but a URL and (maybe) a title. In order to allow people to rescue these references in case the reference goes dead, at minimum an access date, date of publication (if available), and publisher/host should be included. I agree with Lisa about the inconsistent citations as well, partially because of the numerous BURLs mixed with well-formatted citation templates, but also because the article mixes SFN with citation in the #References; all books should be in the "Sources" section, in my opinion. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 04:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC) reply

I agree that there are issues and inconsistencies. This is an older article that has had a lot of different people working on it over the years, and it has had periodic problems with being a controversial topic and contains a few carefully crafted compromises that ended some nasty edit wars (It was also the article that busted the ItsLassieTime sock farm). However, this will take a LOT of hours to clean up and mad drive-by tagging and a partial fix of bits and pieces just creates more confusion. I told that editor to take this to talk at least three times in edit summaries and she instead chose to go to ANI, so I'm not in the best mood at the moment. I also am not in the mood to drop all my other projects and work on this article just because someone noticed it needs to be cleaned up. If they want to clean it up, great, I'm all for it if they do it right. But it is not helpful to do it partway, tags at the top aren't going to help, and it's especially problematic to toss out links to google books, as we are still using those online sources as the article gets worked on -- an IAR situation. If a team wants to work on actually fixing this stuff, great; but do it right and do it with consensus... sigh... Montanabw (talk) 04:36, 2 January 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Understood. I'll see if I can do a bit later (at least move the books into the Sources section)... but, as you know, this is well outside my normal subject area. Thus, I may make mistakes. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 04:39, 2 January 2014 (UTC) reply
  • I'll keep an eyeball on the subject matter, always glad for technical help. I ran reflinks again and it finally decided to fix more of the BURLS. BTW, on the topic, just reread [1], [2] [3], and [4] and in the google books listed in this article, so far this article is in flux and it is helpful to have the link to the entire book. I would not want them removed - where multiple pages are cited, it is klunky to ref each page with a url when the book is online and all pages cited are in the scan, at least. And, I think, some of these books haven't yet been worked into the text yet anyway. Montanabw (talk) 04:59, 2 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Well, I got you started here. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 07:22, 2 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Appreciated, but now it looks like a source or two got unhooked from footnotes when made into a sfn, can someone dig that one out and put it back? This is one of those "every damn things needs to be sourced because some idiot will claim it's controversial" articles.  :-P . And your country knowledge is just fine, we still see pickups with that very bumper sticker! I simply choose to avoid certain topics ... LOL! Montanabw (talk) 22:38, 2 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Montanabw: Here is a couple of problems with your latest revert.
1. You said above, to Crisco 1492 about hooking source in the article. But then, you remove "Move page to footnotes" comments. Make your decision: Do you or do you not want them hooked into the article? Or are you assume I mean "cut the page number and put in some place random"? Well, I don't.
2. A carriage return between two * characters breaks the list into two lists. That gives you HTML problem on some browsers with source hooking. (Scroll Into View API.) That's why I broke $lt;-- and --> between the two lines and no carriage returns before and after them. (If you have good eyes, you could see the list inflating between edits.) If you are using one the five major web browser, inspect the syntax with Developer Tool.
3. When I added "incomplete data" note, I do mean that it can be completed to the extent that it exists. I just need to hunt them down. Although it wouldn't help if I instead have to write this message.
4. Your comment removal was unclean. There are leftovers.
Oh, and by the way, I am curious: Is there some literary figure in your conversation above that I don't understand, or are you guys just being macho?
Codename Lisa ( talk) 02:22, 3 January 2014 (UTC) reply
  • "Literary figure"? Allusions, I guess. Just references to country music (as this is rodeo, after all). Humor. I don't think she was trying to be macho. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 02:30, 3 January 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Hehe... you're right. Well, I guess trying to be a "she" is humor by itself. Best regards, Codename Lisa ( talk) 02:35, 3 January 2014 (UTC) reply
  • I am crossing out one of my sentences because it was ambiguous and open to misinterpretation, if good faith was not assumed. Best regards, Codename Lisa ( talk) 03:00, 3 January 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Lisa, I didn't "revert" a damn thing, I edited. Learn the difference. Also watch your own assumptions and assume good faith yourself next time will you? Yes, I am female. And you just pissed me off again with your assumptions, particularly given I am a feminist and have a lot of dedication to the elimination of systemic bias on wiki. Yes, Crisco and I were making some gentle jokes about country music and joking about rodeo stereotypes (I'm a fourth-generation Montanan and at least a fourth-generation horse-person, I can joke about such things) Criminy... and once again, just quit it with the "I am going to tell you what you did wrong in a condescending tone" thing. Just fix it or take a look at the final edit, maybe I fixed it after I commented here. and...
  1. I removed the ":move page to footnotes" comment where the footnote already contained the page number. It was not needed, as the fix was made. Obvious
  2. Yes, I left over some hidden text, I figured you needed it for some reason, I deleted the empty comments with nothing in them. Looked fine in my browser, you don't need consensus for futher minor cleanup.
  3. And just keep shoveling! Do you know how insulting your remark ""If you have good eyes" is to me? GOOD GOD! Actually, GUESS WHAT!!!! YES!!! My eyesight is actually quite poor, I am legally blind and have a surgically repaired detached retina, due to which I am now developing a cataract! THank you SOOOOO Much for pointing that out! Shall I just stop editing wikipedia now and have them trundle me off in a wheelchair? I'm over 50 also, want me declared senile to boot! Please, just keep laying on the insults and bad faith. Or grow up. Montanabw (talk) 21:26, 3 January 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Hi
1. Irrelevant. Re-read my message again.
2. That wasn't what I was referring to. You have left < and > at the end of some sentence.
3. "If you have good eyes" is a very common expression used to attract the attention to a fine detail that requires attention more than good eye sight. Apart from that, I don't have good eyes too. Aberrant astigmatism, corneal transplant on left eye when I was a teen. Can't use glasses; contact lens is the only solution. 80% of human population has eye problems. So, they could very well use a conditional "if you have good eyes".
Although I do not comment on the contributors in discussions, this time it is becoming necessary: You are not female. You said it once and I didn't buy it. Women may weaponize their femininity, but never their gender. They do not fail to (or feign failure to) recognize an Orwellian allegory of stale metaphor. They do not feign stupidity, because unlike men, they never consider brute force an option. In addition, all you have done so far in your communications was argumentum ad hominem. From the very beginning, it was obvious that you do not care for a discussion at all. That's why I went to WP:ANI. If you don't want my help, fine. I'll stand down, wait till the article go to FAC, then I mention these problems there. Enjoy.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa ( talk) 00:48, 4 January 2014 (UTC) reply
  • Everyone, can we keep civil and carry on? The references still need work, and it's a lot easier when we're not at each others throats (lot fewer blocks that way too). —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 00:53, 4 January 2014 (UTC) reply
Sorry, man. He is on his own. I am separating my way. Unwatching this page. If you need me, you know where you can find me. Best regards, Codename Lisa ( talk) 01:28, 4 January 2014 (UTC) reply

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Removal of sourced material

RexxS, you followed me from a talk page debate to this article and reverted me. Stop stalking me, it's creepy. Spacecowboy420 ( talk) 14:34, 4 May 2016 (UTC) reply

Why did you remove the reference to Dr. Miller's book? The pro rodeo site may not meet RS, but that did. Also, the stuff cited to the pro rodeo site could easily be found in a newspaper or some secondary source. It's better to find an independent source than remove facts. White Arabian Filly Neigh 15:07, 4 May 2016 (UTC) reply
@ Spacecowboy420: When you remove relevant, reliably sourced information from an article, you are guilty of vandalism. It is normal for editors to review other editor's contributions when they leave the diffs to show them. Accusing me of stalking or hounding is a personal attack and leaves you open to sanctions. -- RexxS ( talk) 17:05, 4 May 2016 (UTC) reply
This editor who removed the material appears to be a troll who has never edited this article. WP:DENY may be the best approach. Thank you RexxS and WAF for your help. Montanabw (talk) 22:13, 4 May 2016 (UTC) reply
User:White Arabian Filly, you're right. I did actually mean to only remove the reference lacking neutrality (pro-rodeo), removing the other reference was my mistake, of course I have no issue with neutral/reliable sources.
User:RexxS You changed the title of my edit on this talk page. I'm sure I don't have to mention "Never edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page." - but I will anyway.
User:Montanabw I'm sorry, but you shouldn't really try to dismiss everyone who does not agree with your content, or messages you [ [5]] to request that you stop following them, with silly comments regarding trolling. This discussion wasn't about you, but you had to involve yourself in something regarding me, again. Enough is enough, I don't need a fan club.

Spacecowboy420 ( talk) 06:40, 6 May 2016 (UTC) reply

User:RexxS please stop. Basic wikipedia rules, you don't delete or change other's talk page comments. I'm sure you're a nice guy, so please don't push this any further and make my only option to be reporting you at ANI and request that they block you from editing. Just let it go. Spacecowboy420 ( talk) 12:08, 6 May 2016 (UTC) reply

Removing personal attacks is a policy-based exception to refactoring talk page content, as you are already aware. This page is for the discussion of improvements to the Rodeo article. I'll see you at ANI, where you can explain your repeated removal of reliably sourced content and your repeated personal attacks on me. -- RexxS ( talk) 12:36, 6 May 2016 (UTC) reply

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Very biased editors of this page...Balanced information drastically needed

The claim that "Today, the PRCA and other rodeo sanctioning organizations have stringent regulations to ensure rodeo animals' welfare. Insinuates that these regulations are effective in doing just that - ensuring rodeo animals' welfare. However the published science, the expert opinions as printed in copious media sources, and the very real fact that many animals are injured so badly at rodeos every year that they are actually killed, demonstrates this claim to be completely biased rubbish. I can only imagine the PRCA is gatekeeping this article because it is awfully unbalanced and embarrassingly so. Read Prof. Clive Phillips work on rodeo. The scientific and professional consensus from SPCA's and veterinary associations accross the world is that rodeos cause distress and harm to the animals subject to the events. You can't claim welfare is ensured while animals are dropping dead multiple times per season. Broken backs, broken legs in bulls, another dead horse today at the NZ national champs...Whatever the source is that claims regulations ensure welfare is adequately considered ought to be cited to mean precisely what the author of this article then insinuates it to mean, with their chosen wording. Otherwise word the sentence properly so that it doesn't misrepresent the source, or remove the source and the entire sentence. Something needs to be done with it. CanisLupisArctus ( talk) 07:30, 9 March 2019 (UTC) reply

Rodeo Origin and History

Ok, so I tried to add new information and edit out some that was unfounded, but the moderator erased them all.

First I want to take out Spain as having influence in the rodeo, as the rodeo has nothing to do with the cattle herding techniques used in that European country. They never did any roundups because the amount of cattle in Spain was really small compared to Mexico’s. They didn’t need roundups or rodeos, the had transhumance and could move their cattle to a corral. Second there is no roping, bull-riding, trick roping, etc. done in Spain, it is not part of their tradition.

I want to add more information about the history of the rodeo, how and why it started. I want to add the actual first laws of the rodeo in Mexico during the 1500’s. I would also like to add the first description ever of a Rodeo. All my sources are legit, some sources are books dating back to the 17th and 18th centuries.— Preceding unsigned comment added by nortekman ( talk • contribs)

The first laws regulating a primitive form of rodeo were passed by Viceroy Luis de Velasco on October 16th 1551, just for the valley of Toluca. The law stated: “That the owners of the ranches be counted and be obliged to have with every two thousand cows a Spanish guard and four blacks or Indians, two on horseback and the other two on foot, so that they are careful to collect and surround a day in each week the cattle in the estancia, under penalty of twenty gold pesos for each time they did not do it and find themselves without the said people and guard”

The second law of the rodeo was passed by Viceroy Martin Enriquez, for all cattle ranching regions in the country, on January 25th 1574: “That in each cattle estancia, from the day of San Juan in June until the middle of of November of each year, in each week, in the areas and places that by said justice they are commanded and appointed, they be obliged to do, and do it, a rodeo of the cattle and horses. And all the others from the other regional cattle estancias where it would be convenient to make such a rodeo, are forced to come out, and help do the rodeo, so that each one can take out the cattle that bears their brand and take it back to their estancia. As the said Rodeo is going on, by law, between the estancias, under penalty of doing the opposite: being Spanish or mestizo, ten pesos of common gold, applied according to Mesta ordinances; and being black, mulatto, or quadroon, they shall be given a hundred lashes”

The first description of a Rodeo was done by Don Juan Suarez de Peralta in his book “Libro de Albeitería” written between 1575 and 1580: “to take the cattle, they build false corrals towards the area they have fled and they gather many men on horseback and using this technique they capture them, and, as I have said few, because there are also tamed horses called corraliegos in great quantity; that there are many who have more than a thousand mares, and the ones who seem to have the least has five hundred, two hundred, and that’s nothing, because there is so much cattle, that there are men who have 150,000 cows, and 20,000 is little, and many are cimarronas and the most are rodeo ones, that are so made to it, it is the only way to know who they belong to. And these Rodeos are done this way: that more than three hundred horsemen of all the cattle barons gather for a day that they indicate and that land they call Valles is very flat and depopulated of towns where they have to chase the meek cattle, especially in the San Juan valley in the Chichimecas, who are untamed hostile Indians who have never been conquered, and they do a lot of damage both in killing people and in burning the houses, that over there they call Estancias, where the cowboys live and have their corrals to enclose some cattle to brand” — Preceding unsigned comment added by nortekman ( talk • contribs)

I’ve edited and added new information, historical texts, sources, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by nortekman ( talk • contribs)

Some of your material is useful, some of it is not. The images are excessive and mostly unneeded. Your description of "rodeo" is simply a description of cattle management, not competition. (May be worth discussing the etymology of the word, though) Cattle herding traditions DID come from Spain and rodeo traditions arose from the practices on working ranches. You need to take a look at WP:RS and WP:V and add material that is properly sourced. Montanabw (talk) 05:54, 24 February 2022 (UTC) reply
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