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	Osprey was one of the Natural sciences good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result November 2, 2006 WikiProject peer review Reviewed January 13, 2008 Good article nominee Listed January 15, 2020 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

OK, so what is the currently accepted classification of this bird?

Falconiformes? Accipitriformes? The table says one but the text says another! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.171.184.101 ( talk) 11:16, 23 April 2018 (UTC) reply

There is an illustrative image at [1] you might want to integrate in the article. Thue | talk 18:33, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

the map of the distribution of ospreys is incorrect. they are commonly found around the norfolk coast in the east of england and have been spotted as far inland as Cambridge. not sure how to edit this myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Actualb3n ( talk • contribs) 10:54, 20 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Actually, this would be one that would be meaty ewnough for an FA one day........ Cas Liber 12:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC) reply

1. I've added to the description, but I don't know whether the age/sex plumage differences apply to all ssp (I should have looked at American birds more carefully).
2. The image say the Oz ssp is the most distinctive. Why?
3. I'd prefer the ssp list outside the taxobox -any views?

I agree with you there. I hate taxa lists inside taxoboxes. Better listed and elucidated upon in article proper Cas Liber 06:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC) reply

1. The external links seem very parochial. I'd be inclined to chop them all except the HBW internet videos, and possibly the RSPB.
2. i need a little help in here. it is written in the article that ospreys are only a migratory species in South America and i have found that this is certainly not true. I live in Venezuela and i have been watching a family of ospreys nesting, fishing and breeding for the past few years just a few hundred meters from home. since they seem to be very successfull in this place im keeping a close watch on them. now i need some advices so make some reliable info on this so i can update the article

jimfbleak 06:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC) reply

Can't help with other queries yet. Cas Liber 06:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC) reply

1. Research limitations osprey nests put on utility workers and the Telecom industry; they like to build nests on radios and that can cause issues with govt/tower owners — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100F:B00B:F39:12D9:20A1:DA19:A3A0 ( talk) 23:59, 28 April 2020 (UTC) reply

Rather than having a bunch of facts placed in a popular culture section, it should blong in a triva section. I suggest replaving popular culture with triva. Sgt. Hydra 01:34, 26 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Need a little help in here. it is written in the article that ospreys are only a migratory species in South America and i have found that this is certainly not true. I live in Venezuela and i have been watching a family of ospreys nesting, fishing and breeding for the past few years just a few hundred meters from home. since they seem to be very successfull in this place im keeping a close watch on them. now i need some advices so make some reliable info on this so i can update the article

Although breeding is obviously likely to occur in Venezuela, since birds often summer there, you need a published reference or internet source, since otherwise it is original research, which is discouraged on Wikipedia. jimfbleak 14:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC) reply

What does it mean when the article talks about "finger" features. Sgt. Hydra 19:32, 31 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Osprey is WP birds collaboration

Nominated March 14, 2007;

Support:

1. Casliber | talk | contribs 07:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC) reply
2. Hey jude, don't let me down 19:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC) reply
3. Maias 01:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC) reply
4. The Nature Guy 16:50, 19 May 2007 (UTC) reply
5. jimfbleak 16:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC) reply
6. MeegsC | Talk 13:25, 25 May 2007 (UTC) reply

Comments:

• Global species so everyone can write about it. Has quite a bit of material so has a good start.cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 07:15, 15 March 2007 (UTC) reply
• I'd go for this this month since Casliber and I have already tweaked it a bit, but bird migration needs a good overhaul too. jimfbleak 16:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC) reply

The caption under the picture beside the Taxonomy section mentions that the Australian subspecies is the "most distinctive", and yet the description in the taxonomy section merely mentions that it is smaller than the others and non-migratory. Surely there must be more to it than that! MeegsC | Talk 22:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC) reply

Hopefully - will become clear (I guess) as we wade through some references. cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 23:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC) reply

Taxonomy deals with the naming of the taxon and an etymology sub-section here would be expected to explain the meaning of the genus and species names, but the English name origin should perhaps be outside it, maybe in the lead. Shyamal 01:49, 2 July 2007 (UTC) reply

Partly, but all points in the lead must be expanded elsewhere in the article. have a look at Common Raven as an example. Also Fin Whale, Humpback Whale and Amanita phalloides as some recent examples of FAs. Often issues of derivation and classification are intermingled, hence for some articles we just call the section Taxonomy and naming. It is tricky but we try to avoid stubby sections. If a great deal more etymolgy info comes up we can review how big it should be cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 02:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC) reply

Ok. There is a good bit here [2] [3] [4] [5] Shyamal 04:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC) reply

Well spotted! Looks like there's going to be a ton of information and judicious pruning will be required.cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 04:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC) reply

OK, feel free to chase up a task here:

• There should be alot of info on pesticides and its effects on egg shell thickness etc. The conservation section could be expanded significantly.

• Subspecies differences

• More on taxonomy. Any molecular work come to light?

• Rewrite pop cult section into cohesive pargraphs (see Common Raven as example.

Add more ideas here. cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 02:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC) reply

According to the BNA this is the best studied bird of prey in North America, mostly because of the DDT thing, so the infor should be avaliable. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:47, 2 July 2007 (UTC) reply

I've just spent 30 mins going through removing repetition, contradictory statements, inconsistency of style etc. Most of the edits are self explanatory, but I was in doubt whether to leave the plane in pop culture - it's already on disamb, but I don't know whether it's notable enough for the main article??. Jimfbleak 07:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC) reply

If you can get a look at these articles (without having to pay—I wish I lived closer to a university) they look interesting...

• Individuals in an osprey colony discriminate between high and low quality information
• Organochlorine pesticides, polychlorinated biphenyls, and mercury in osprey eggs—1970–79—and their relationships to shell thinning and productivity
• Weather and Osprey foraging energetics
• Mercury in Eggs and Nestlings of the Osprey (Pandion haliaetus ) in Finland and Its Bioaccumulation from Fish
• Temporal Patterns in Pre-Fledgling Survival and Brood Reduction in an Osprey Colony
• Fall Migration Routes, Timing, and Wintering Sites of North American Ospreys as Determined by Satellite Telemetry

More to come! MeegsC | Talk 08:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC) reply

I'll get them tomorrow morning when I get in if no one else has. Sabine's Sunbird talk 09:05, 2 July 2007 (UTC) reply

The section give the months of the breeding season by region in Australia, and my reference(The Audubon Society Encyclopedia of North American Birds... my one source) gives the months by region in the US. Is there a reference which has the times by latitude rather than region, or is there no rule of latitude? -- Jude. 00:33, 12 July 2007 (UTC) reply

Also: the lifespan of the Osprey, and its predators, are under "Reproduction". Is that where it's supposed to be?

Yep, they are usually included together - since they are all part of what is known as life history (lifespan * number of offspring per year = total lifetime reproductive output); predation (causes of mortality) also play a part. Arguably you can have a section called life hstory or demographics as a subheading of breeding. Sabine's Sunbird talk 00:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC) reply

Ospreys are so photogenic that there have been several documentary movies made about them. Would it be appropriate for this article to mention and link to those documentaries? VisitorTalk 15:11, 23 August 2007 (UTC) reply

I can't review this, since I did a lot on it earlier, but I've copyedited and tweaked. A few points

1. Oz bit says its sedentary, but a winter visitor to Tasmania - needs rewording
2. osprey drowning either needs a cite or removal (there has been a hoax photo claiming to show that)
3. Conservation better as part of a status section with the addition of the usual IUCN status bit
4. More on persecution, perhaps the extinction in Scotland
5. something on culture and superstition - fish turn belly up in surrender - as referenced in Coriolanus. Are there any stamps?

Jimfbleak ( talk) 11:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC) reply

I've removed drowning, as uncited and known to be a target for hoaxes, also non-fish prey (uncited and imprecise - how large an alligator? Predators on ospreys seem plausible but uncited. What's the point of the remaining other references - I'd be inclined to lose them. Jimfbleak ( talk) 09:51, 3 January 2008 (UTC) reply

This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of January 13, 2008, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Since most of this is very small stuff that takes more time to explain than doing it myself, I'll do some copyediting myself before I pass the article. Most importantly, the initial sentence of the article doesn't state the obvious well enough. It delves right away in to detail without sticking to the basics. I'll try a different version, but even if that one isn't desirable to you there needs to be some kind of progress made here. The other thing I'll be working on is consolidating in to more readable paragraphs. To be visually and textually digestible, paragraphs should be an ideal length of 3-4 sentences. Obviously there are exceptions, but it's a good general rule to stick to.

2. Factually accurate?: Good work in this aspect, the article meets or exceeds the GA requirements for verification.

3. Broad in coverage?: Broad and concise.

4. Neutral point of view?: Gives fair treatment to all significant points of view.

5. Article stability? Not the subject of any recent or on-going edit wars.

6. Images?: All images have proper source and licensing info. However, I have one suggestion. The current lead is a Featured Picture on Commons, and it's pretty. But it's a little too far away at the standard taxobox size to be the most helpful to readers (our target here). I would suggest using Image:Osprey mg 9605.jpg (it previewed very well) or maybe Image:Osprey Morro Strand Beach.jpg. Let me know what you think.

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be reviewed again. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work so far.— Van Tucky 04:18, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Notes

For readability, please place any comments or questions pertaining to the hold below rather than within the body of the review. Thank you!

• I've completed any edits I think should be made. Once I hear from the nominator/authors of the article that they are satisfied with my changes, then I'll promote the article. Van Tucky 04:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Nice work with the lead and I like the photo. I'm happy and Jim is still around somehwere and will likely comment soon. cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 05:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

I've been through again, and made a few final corrections and minor improvements (like stopping the sound link splitting across a line). I'm happy now for van Tucky to assess.

Not really relevant to GA, but is it worth adding Linnaeus's description of the Osprey F. cera pedibusque caeruleis, corpore supra fusco subtus albo, capite albido perhaps as a footnote? Jimfbleak ( talk) 07:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Sounds like a great idea. Can go in as quote in formatted cite text as there is a slot for it. cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 08:34, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Didn't realise you could do that! Jimfbleak ( talk) 09:04, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Cool eh? heeheehee. (Oh good, we can get this to GA and it will be one more for the Aussies....d'oh!! Sod these cosmopolitan birds...) cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 09:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Sod these cosmopolitan birds? Was that English? ;) Van Tucky 20:46, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Nah, a popular magazine ') cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 20:48, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

• One important note: to my knowledge, it is not grammatically correct to capitalize osprey in every use. I am correcting this now. After that, I'll give the article another quick once-over and pass as GA. Van Tucky 21:03, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

• Per Wikipedia:BIRD#Bird_names_and_article_titles and WP:MOS common names for bird species are capitalised; any reason why tehy shouldn't be for osprey (except when referring to the osprey family)? Sabine's Sunbird talk 22:57, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

I was unaware of this special rule for bird names. Most animal pronouns are not capitalized in every usage, and doing so would contradict the usual rules of English grammar. However, I don't particularly care. I'll revert it. Van Tucky 23:07, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Fixes made, so I promoted the article. Nice work, and congrats! Van Tucky 21:14, 13 January 2008 (UTC) reply

Hi folks... After asking this same question in the Golden Eagle discussion and consequently reading a lot more about birds of prey I have come to the Osprey page, since it seems to be an Osprey: I am trying to find out what kind of bird of prey it is that nests on my property. Below is a link to two pictures, one of the bird sitting in the tree, one in flight. http://knoglinger.com/pics/ These pictures were taken on Vancouver Island, BC, Canada. My guess it is a young Osprey. I hope that the shot with the wings spread out will help. If it is indeed a young Osprey, I will take efforts to capture a few very good pictures of it. Chaosdna ( talk) 17:00, 6 April 2008 (UTC) reply

not Osprey, different shape and proportions in flight, pale, eats only fish. This looks like a Buteo, tail looks vaguely red on flight pic, possibly adult dark morph western subspecies Red-tailed Hawk Jimfbleak ( talk) 17:22, 6 April 2008 (UTC) reply

Thank you Jimfbleak, you seem to be found where the bird articles are :P , I will still try to get a few better pictures. There are other raptors in the area too, the ubiquitous Bald Eagle, Golden Eagle and Ospreys. I was just surprised about the size of that suspected bird, for a Hawk it is very big imho.

Either way, thanks for your response. Chaosdna ( talk) 17:36, 6 April 2008 (UTC) reply

Hi Chaosdna. Yup, it's definitely a Red-tailed Hawk. And you're right—they are big, particularly the females. That lovely strawberry-blond tail is a great field mark for an adult bird, and you've captured it well on your second picture. How lucky you are to have this as a "yard bird"! MeegsC | Talk 18:54, 6 April 2008 (UTC) reply

I see edit reverts and reverts of reverts about the spelling of meter vs metre. I suggest we create consistency across the article by either spelling all units metre or meter: So, if consensus is on 'metre', then smaller units of distance mentioned in the article, such as centimeter should also be spelled 'centimetre'. I personally vote for the '*meter' option. This is a trivial point, but why should we engage in a revert war over one occurrence of this unit and not address the rest? Chaosdna ( talk) 04:41, 18 November 2008 (UTC) reply

It should follow whichever usage of English the rest of the article is in. Color, behaviour, pavement or sidewalk, whichever goy used first or whichever is used now, go with it. Sabine's Sunbird talk 05:58, 18 November 2008 (UTC) reply

Is osprey capitalized throughout this article for a reason? If not, I'll come back and correct that. Lhynard ( talk) 17:09, 2 May 2011 (UTC) reply

It is policy that bird species common names (not families of birds or mammals) be capitalized. [6] Dger ( talk) 18:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC) reply

Thanks for the clarification. Lhynard ( talk) 01:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC) reply

I'm interested in the removal of the bolding on Pandion haliaetus contrary to redirected name and WP:ToL general standards. The second removal today was accompanied by the edit summary "restore bird project standard". Can anyone supply a link to the WP:Birds page that covers this, I would like to know the reasoning for the choice. -- Kev min § 17:43, 1 June 2011 (UTC) reply

It's standard throughout the bird project including GAs and FAs, I can't remember the reasoning, but I'll link to this on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:04, 2 June 2011 (UTC) reply

• here Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:22, 2 June 2011 (UTC) reply

Don't want to add a photo willy-nilly, but I grabbed this shot the other day if it will help this or a related article: File:Osprey platform.jpg. No big deal if you use it or not, just wanted to let you know it's there. Montanabw ^(talk) 20:53, 11 July 2011 (UTC) reply

I am not quite sure why my revision about the new status of Pandion haliaetus cristatus has been removed. I provided a reference and the IOC has accepted the new status. If people do not agree, the issue could at least be discussed in the text. Dogo ( talk) 11:08, 29 August 2012 (UTC) reply

The osprey is native to Australia too, a fact neglected on the distribution map. Since my graphical skills are lacking, maybe someone would like to correct this. Peter Greenwell ( talk) 03:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC) reply

The map should show ospreys in Japan too. N p holmes ( talk) 11:57, 9 April 2014 (UTC) reply

I have added some areas you mention based on http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Osprey - only problem with that map is that it does not indicate whether the shaded areas are breeding or a wintering zones. Shyamal ( talk) 03:32, 10 April 2014 (UTC) reply

While I'm an editor on wikipedia I'm also a user (like a lot of us). I don't have a great deal of knowledge about birds but I recently learned that we had ospreys in Australia. So I looked up osprey on wikipedia to learn more and was left confused by the content of the article. I didn't read it fully; like most users I did a quick scan of the article, mostly at the top. The thing that really confused me was the map which showed no distribution of the bird in Australia. It's at that point I left the article and went and did an internet search on 'Australian osprey' which did turn up some pages on websites specific to Australian birds and then, a bit further down in the search results (I used DuckDuckGo), was an entry for the wikipedia article on the Eastern osprey. Coming back to the main osprey article I clicked on the link to Pandion (bird) in the taxonomic section of the sidebar and that resolved some of my confusion, which has been now further unentagled by looking at this talk page and seeing that there is still some debate about how to treat ospreys on wikipedia. I don't want to join this debate, my knowledge base on this subject is too shallow, but I do want to note that as a user, my experience in using wikipedia to find out about ospreys in Australia was very much less than ideal. Oska ( talk) 03:27, 30 May 2019 (UTC) reply

The article is the residue of an untidy split, and I know it is incorrect because the things I was going to fix after two days of research was disrupted by lack of endorsement and vindictive behaviour that prompted to fix something elsewhere. cygnis insignis 23:08, 2 July 2019 (UTC) reply

'and the family listed in its traditional place as part of the order Falconiformes' Should be written as "and the family listed in its traditional place as part of the order Acciptriformes" im order to have behave the correct link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.132.0.2 ( talk) 21:26, 12 July 2019 (UTC) reply

Are the extra letters in bold meaningful or just accidents?

• "Ancient Greek haliaietos ἁλιάετος"
• several occurrences spelled "Haliaeetus" (including quote from Systema Naturae, where https://archive.org/details/SystemaNaturae/page/n33 shows "Haliætus")

-- Not R ( talk) 16:57, 31 May 2020 (UTC) reply

The article contradicts itself - in the lead it says the Eastern Osprey has been recognised as a separate species and there are only 3 subspecies, but under the 1.1 Osprey#Classification section it lists the Eastern as still a subspecies, totalling 4. 2A00:23C6:760A:7F01:6490:458A:4009:5460 ( talk) 12:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC) reply

In recent years there has been a proliferation of static cameras providing continuous internet feeds of the hatching of ospreys. This has resulted in a considerable interest in the process among people who are not otherwise "birdwatchers" and who have no scientific knowledge.

I imagine many people come to this article seeking knowledge. May I suggest that the article is rather daunting and unhelpful to them? I don't have access to the reference books to improve the article myself; I am hoping that others who are knowledgable in the field could do so. Experts may find my questions naive (for example I don't know what "systematics" means: it is used in the first main heading). Nevertheless I suggest that Wikipedia articles are there to help people who don't know, not for people who already know the answers.

I particularly wanted to know about the finding of a mate; does an unmated individual simply assemble a nest and wait for an eligible member of the opposite sex to discover it, or what? Do nearly all ospreys migrate? Do they generally mate in the cold country or region in the spring, and overwinter in the warm country? Do the pair not associate in the non-mating season? There have been reports in my country of females who have lost mates laying unfertilised eggs. Can the biological process be explained, please? (My parents never told me about this aspect of the birds and the bees.) The males exhibit very specific behaviours in fetching and eating fish during the hatching period; I was surprised not to see this discussed. The map of global range indicates no osprey presence in England and Wales; that seems to be quite wrong.

The very first words in the article are "The osprey or more specifically the western osprey ..." Does that mean those terms are synonymous? If "western osprey" is more specific than "osprey", what does that exclude? In the "classification" section, what does the word "nominate" mean? "The female relies on the size of the nest to conserve heat." What does that mean? The nests I have seen are large and wide, and don;t seem to do anything to keep inclement weather out.

And if I may make a couple of observations about wikilinks, the article tells us that mortality is sometimes due to collisions with "electrical wiring". The wikilink takes us to an lengthy article about mostly indoor domestic and industrial cabling. And the reproduction section has a wikilink to "U.S." where we can read about the Pilgrim Fathers, the civil war, human populaton and religion etc. Both of those links are unhelpful. In fact I will elimnate them now. Afterbrunel ( talk) 06:48, 29 April 2021 (UTC) reply

@ DanWithers1855: - There is no need for the information you added. That's handled via the "other uses" link at the top of the article. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:10, 24 October 2022 (UTC) reply

In chapter 'Etymology' the first sentence states:

"The genus name Pandion derives from Pandíōn Πανδίων, the mythical Greek king of Athens and grandfather of Theseus, Pandion II."

Very weirdly/ incomprehendably (for me), the second sentence contradicts this (and also seems to me to contradict the actual latin name of the bird):

"Although Pandion II was not used to name a bird of prey, Nisus, a king of Megara, was used for the genus.[14]"

Do other people understand this (and are willing to reword the sentence either here, for me, in case I am just momentarily 'too stupid', or, which I believe might be necesary, for all future readers, IN the article?

OR ist this (as at seems to me) just pure nonsense/ SPAM/ "trolling"? If I was totally sure I'd remove it myself; hope someone surer (or bolder) will see this and act.

Thanks in advance! :-)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:3037:204:FDE4:BC0C:1DEF:4A6C:8143 ( talk) 12:28, 7 April 2023 (UTC) reply

(As the "reply(to-myself-)" button seems not to work for me, I'll do this via editing here: )

I looked into the 'Nisus'-Wikipedia-article and then decided to be bold (and am quite convinced that I am right in assuming that statement was nonsense).

Should anyone find a convincing and understandable explanation FOR reintroducing that (strange) theory, PLEASE write about it in a comprehendable way – DO NOT just press "revert", as this clearly would give readers nothing but utter confusion AGAIN ( – thx for your understanding).

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:3037:204:FDE4:BC0C:1DEF:4A6C:8143 ( talk) 13:06, 7 April 2023 (UTC) reply

'Description' chapter talks about ospreys' "tarsi" – follow the link to 'Tarsus' page: this states that birds do not have such.

What is right then?

And what does being "reticulate" mean here??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:3032:417:DFE4:1:1:7645:C419 ( talk) 08:36, 8 April 2023 (UTC) reply

"Reticulated" refers to the pattern of certain animals. A species of snake called reticulated python gets its name for the prominent scaled pattern, much like the scaled tarsi of many birds 2600:6C44:627F:5865:D028:C3FF:FE4B:8D02 ( talk) 02:02, 2 January 2024 (UTC) reply

The range map needs to be updated. Osprey have expanded throughout their range. The map doesn't even show the certain time of year they can be found. I tried to edit the map picture, but I couldn't figure it out. I only know how to edit the text. 2600:6C44:627F:5865:D028:C3FF:FE4B:8D02 ( talk) 18:32, 1 January 2024 (UTC) reply

The cited source for the Pliny the Elder bullet describes the osprey forcing its young to look at the sun, not to fly up to it. Does a different section of Natural History say this? If so, I suggest citing that source instead. If not, I suggest editing to "stare at the sun" rather than "fly up to the sun." 207.67.20.252 ( talk) 19:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC) reply

Which sub-species is the one that appears in central/southern Africa? None of them seem to have this region listed in their description in the Taxonomy section. 155.190.13.13 ( talk) 04:49, 2 February 2024 (UTC) reply