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Miscegenation is not 'race mixing'. Miscegenation is an idea, based on a now revised belief about ancient human history. Like racism which is based on biological determinism, the belief that there were 3 distinct races separated since creation by geography, has been central to their belief. This found it's expression in the Multi-Regional Theory of human evolution, opposed to the Out Of Africa Theory which is now generally accepted, especially with the decyphering of the human genome. There has been an attempt to return the Multi-Regional hypothesis by postulating, on the worst quality DNA, that there were marginal infusions of non-Homo Sapiens/Homo Erectus homonids, like the Neanderthals, Denosivians, etc. However, percentages ascribed to this species/race mixing are marginal - less than 2% of European DNA being Neanderthal, for instance. If there were 3 distinctive races or early racial formation among Homo Sapiens, environmental events 7kya and 3-4kya caused large scale migrations, for instance making the Ancient Eurasians the basis of the oldest European families as well as Siberians and Native Americans. In the 2nd millennium BC, there massive north-south migrations/invasions in Africa and Asia. This mixed Aryans (India) and Mongols (China/SEASia) with earlier Ancient Black African populations that inhabited Africa, India, China, SE Asia to Papua New Guinea. The Andamanese (male haplogroup D, female haplogroup M32) are an example of these populations. Ideas like miscegenation were publicized and put into law by the elites, for instance through the Eugenics Records Office (ERO), funded by Mary Harriman, wife of the railway monopolist E.H. Harriman. Eugenics Record Office Archives at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory. MrSativa ( talk) 21:47, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
Following up on some of the threads (e.g., here) on this talk page and in response to a recent anon edit ( here), I propose we change the term caucasian for white. As the caucasian article explains, the term is outdated and discredited for current social usage, and employ properly in a few branches of science, but not in society at large. Changing "caucasian" for "white" (or "white people" would address legitimate concerns about consistency, as were expressed by Satanstorm ( here). Few people would be happy with "white," but lacking a better alternative, I think we should temporarily settle on this term until consensus builds toward a better one. I invite your thoughts before performing the change. Caballero/Historiador ⎌ 19:47, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
this makes no sense? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.171.26.226 ( talk) 00:26, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
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As the readable prose size is 134kB, I suggest the section
History of ethnoracial admixture and attitudes towards miscegenation should be split off into a new article and a summary left with a {{
main}}
link. The title (at least) also needs to be rewritten as "ethnoracial" is not a word according to any dictionary I have consulted —
Iadmc
♫
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I arrived here because I was writing about how interracial marriage was for a time banned by law across much of the United States. Though I found some interesting sources, I readily established that this article is a mess.
An encyclopedia is not intended to replace a library, but to provide a gateway to libraries. Somewhere along the line, this article has been dragged toward the former (failed) goal.
The premise of the article appears to be that miscegenation and interracial marriage are essentially the same, or perhaps that one contains the other. In any case, certainly Transculturation might subsume both. The opening definition must be clarified, as in the Simple English version [1], and the bulk of the article brought into line with that.
Supposedly, the term "miscegenation" was not coined until 1863, and is now all but forgotten except retrospectively for one historical period. Though the article is vague, the term seems to have been appropriated (in the U.S. at least) in a negative sense — particularly "anti-miscegenation."
The argument could be made that miscegenation refers specifically to "undesirable" intermarriage in the United States between people of dissimilar race, representing a particular historical era and mindset, and that its modern use is outmoded. Therefore, expanding it to refer to all multiethnic relationships is incorrect, especially those elsewhere in the world that have never resulted in legislation of control. Certainly, examples of "female sex tourism" and of recent multiracial celebrities stretches the ostensible purpose of the article beyond any sort of rationality.
Weeb Dingle (
talk) 06:26, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Topic mostly relates to Miscegenation, with specific cultural context that can also be included in the Miscegenation article. Kiteinthewind Leave a message! 04:43, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
Hi, came here through a link on Film in the "non-code" era of hollywood, and a bit surprised to see the casual treatment of the topic in the lead paragraph of the article...
I would agree with a comment made in the merge discussion, that this article is supposed to be about "about the racist notion that interracial relationships are a bad thing". But that is not made clear in the lead paragraph, and I think thats a significant fault. To add to that, the explanation talks about "race" as if that was a valid, existing scientific category (pro tip - its not). I'm happy to make changes myself, but I thought it might make sense to look for some comments / clarify the reasoning for those changes in advance.
Regards 134.3.210.209 ( talk) 13:08, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
I removed a "health risks" section from this article, which constituted original research, using inadmissable tabloid sources, which was also in poor taste and seems possibly motivated by bad faith and racism. I've found several peer reviewed papers that suggest miscegenation has no health risks, and that mixed-race babies even have a lower incidence of certain diseases compared to one or or both parental ethnic groups. Taking one or two studies which indicate a elevated incidence of c-section (not a health risk in of itself) or lower birth weights, and extrapolating a health risk from that without any context, perhaps using insufficient sample sizes, is not encyclopedic. Hunan201p ( talk) 22:49, 24 December 2019 (UTC
The use of the word " Mulatto", which the Wiki article of the word states that it is now chiefly considered offensive and derogatory, happens over 20 times in this article.
I propose the change of using a term such as "mixed black and white", or similar changes. The main focus I think should be able to be relayed without using a term considered globally chiefly as derogatory or offensive. There are many words in the English language that can be put together or used to convey this concept in several different less inflammatory ways.
I'm not making these proposed edits without consulting the community, due to 1) my account is extremely new, and is without much of the breadth of information on editing others do have, and 2) the entire article is flagged as possibly controversial, therefore any universal edits I make would be a possible severe misstep. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BlueIsMyFavoriteColor ( talk • contribs) 15:48, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:52, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
I propose two changes. First, move Section 4 to a new article titled 'History of multiracial people'. Second, merge Sections 5 and 6 into
Multiracial and
Multiracial Americans. Two reasons:
There was support for a similar split in 2017, Talk:Miscegenation/Archive_3#Split_page, although nothing came of it.
I'll put notices of this proposal on the talk pages at Multiracial and Multiracial Americans. I don't think it's controversial to make the split, but I'd like to get broader input into the the new article name, and the proposed merge of Sections 5 and 6. Terms like multiracial, interacial, etc., are becoming less common as our understanding of race itself evolves, and so maybe there is a different approach we should consider.
Please let me know what you think. LaTeeDa ( talk) 22:34, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
On further thought, modifying the split proposal immediately above. Justification is the same. Propose no new overarching article, like 'History of multiracial people'. Instead, merge Miscegenation#History_of_ethnoracial_admixture_and_attitudes_towards_miscegenation (90% of the overall article text) into existing pages where practical and create new articles for the rest, with Multiracial serving as the main page.
LaTeeDa ( talk) 20:28, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
About the Third Opinion request: The request made at Third Opinion has been removed (i.e. declined). Like all other moderated content dispute resolution venues at Wikipedia, Third Opinion requires thorough talk page discussion before seeking assistance. With only one posting by one involved editor here, this is not in any sense thorough. If no discussion can be obtained, remember that "no consensus" is a perfectly acceptable result here at Wikipedia. — TransporterMan ( TALK) 20:08, 13 April 2020 (UTC) (Not watching this page)
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NOTAFORUM
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/info/en/?search=Talk:Interracial_marriage#There_are_many_misinterpreting_the_source_about_Chinese_intermarrige. A)He claims to be a user of each other.Right now 2 editors here (Watersinfalls including me) are confused if ...' B)This talk is about the Chinese international marriage in Latin America and China. However,41.34.93.140/102.44.199.16 suddenly began to comment on Korea, which expressed nationalist feelings and was not related to this talk. C) I invited him to get the UserID. D) 'Watersinfalls' appeared, and suddenly He mentioned a Korean who had nothing to do with talk. The editing method is the same as the IP address. E) 'Sogdian' 'Korea' : These two keywords are not the focus of this talk. It's a crazy word, regardless of the talk. F) However, 'Watersinfalls' and IP are equally referring to the keyword. G) It is unlikely that these two dolls are different characters. H) Also, the two IP and 'Watersinfalls' participate only in this talk, with no other contributions. Bablos939 ( talk) 13:01, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
You said " Right now 2 editors here (Watersinfalls including me) are confused if " I said... Right now 2 editors here. Watersinfalls who accused you first ( that's 1 ) and including me (that's 2) = 2 editors. Misinterpretation are not needed A investigation to see who's a sockpuppet in underway so let's be patient and wait.What do you mean Keyword "Sogdian" and "Korea". Those are things you don't want people to know and the previous banned sock shows you have similar behaviour. Maomao4321 used the exact same Korean link as you. 1) They all numbers in the end. 2) They all write Chinese women. I believe they all share similar IP locations (possibly either from Korea some close city locations). As for Peruvian Chinese, I suggest you look at their physical descendants and you will see many Chinese Peruvian look mix between Chinese and Peruvian https://www.ned.org/wp-content/uplo...Power-Rising-Authoritarian-Influence-Peru.pdf " The first are those who maintain Chinese citizenship and, therefore, have stronger, more direct ties to China; this group includes the descendants of the workers of Cantonese origin who migrated to Peru after 1849, as well as the so-called new migrants—mostly from Fujian province—who have been flowing into the country since the 1980s. The second group are Peruvian citizens born in the countrywith mixed Peruvian-Chinese ancestry, locally known as Tusan.7 The Tusan are thought to be quite numerous: Up to 2.5 million people, or 8 percent of Peru’s population of 31 million may have Chinese ancestry, according to estimates—about whichthere is still much debate.8 "So you're completely wrong about only a few Chinese married. 41.232.35.139 ( talk) 20:46, 1 June 2020 (UTC) Do you see this As for Peruvian Chinese, I suggest you look at their physical descendants and you will see many Chinese Peruvian look mix between Chinese and Peruvian https://www.ned.org/wp-content/uplo...Power-Rising-Authoritarian-Influence-Peru.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.232.35.139 ( talk) 22:34, 1 June 2020 (UTC) single-purpose account : Watersinfalls, 41.34.93.140 ,102.44.199.16 , 41.232.35.139 , Buzinezz They commonly cover up international marriages of Chinese women and exaggerate international marriages of Chinese men. Some of them were blocked before the Sockpuppet investigations. Their conduct should be nullified. /info/en/?search=User:Buzinezz /info/en/?search=Special:Contributions/41.232.35.139 Bablos939 ( talk) 14:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
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References
An editor is attemptinig to change the lede paragraph from it current state:
Miscegenation ( /mɪˌsɛdʒɪˈneɪʃən/), starting from the now-discredited belief that human "races" exist, is the supposedly unhappy result of the mixing of these "races": the loss of a particular race or culture's "purity". [1] [2] This racial mixing requires sexual activity between members of different races, thus producing mixed-race offspring. Opposition to miscegenation, thereby preserving their race's purity and nature, is a typical theme of racial supremacist movements, especially white supremacy.
to this:
Miscegenation ( /mɪˌsɛdʒɪˈneɪʃən/) is the mixing of different racial groups through marriage, sexual activity and procreation. [1] [3] Opposition to miscegenation, which is perceived to impact the "purity" of a particular race, is a typical theme of racial supremacist movements, especially white supremacy.
I contend that the suggested replacement assumes that "racial groups' actually exist, wheras the current state of scientific thing holds that the broad categories of "race" are primarily a social construct and do not have any scientific basis. This is something the current paragraph makes very clear. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 11:28, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Miscegenation ( /mɪˌsɛdʒɪˈneɪʃən/) is the mixing of different racial groups through marriage, sexual activity and procreation. [1] [4] Opposition to miscegenation, which is perceived to impact the "purity" of a particular race, is a typical theme of racial supremacist movements, especially white supremacy.
Miscegenation ( /mɪˌsɛdʒɪˈneɪʃən/), starting from the now-discredited belief that human "races" exist, is the supposedly unhappy result of the mixing of these "races": the loss of a particular race or culture's "purity". [1] [5] This racial mixing requires sexual activity between members of different races, thus producing mixed-race offspring. Opposition to miscegenation, thereby preserving their race's purity and nature, is a typical theme of racial supremacist movements, especially white supremacy.
References
“there was frequent intermarriage”
There are sources that state that approximately 12,000 African slaves were imported into El Salvador since the beginning of the colonial period so the assertion that marriages between indigenous women and African men were ‘frequent’ is dubious and highly unlikely based on that figure. The number is far too low for that to have been the case.
Not to mention that African physical characteristics among the Salvadorean population are practically non-existent, something that would be fairly evident if the frequency of these marriages was true.
“ women would rather marry"
The assertion that indigenous women would prefer to marry men that were slaves doesn’t add up given that laws were eventually passed to cease the enslavement of the native population only for their labor to be replaced by the approved importation of African slaves.
This decision in and of itself reinforces and backs up that indigenous lives were perceived to be of a higher value and priority than African ones. African slaves and their descendants have usually, if not always, being at the bottom of social hierarchy across Latin America, with a few exceptions here and there.
Although there is a citation provided for these claims, not all articles are created equal as some are of a very questionable academic standard and can be more accurately described as mere conjecture of an unqualified author/s rather than an expert’s comments based on actual reliable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.117.190 ( talk) 15:53, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Beyond My Ken: Regarding this revert you have made, I would just say that none of the sources included in my removal made any mention of "miscegenation" or "marriage". They only talk about the disputes about races of Indians, Pakistanis, Afghan people of South Asia and ultimately concluding that they all belong to the same racial category. But what any of this has to do with this subject of miscegenation? Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia is the right page for it (where it already exists). Bvatsal61 ( talk) 16:00, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
I made several edits to the health risks section ( diff) to improve accuracy. The section still needs more work, primarily covering the research on pregnancy and perinatal health risks for mixed race couples. I tried to establish a foundation for that research since, as I wrote in the beginning of the section, pregnancy and neonatal health risks for interracial couples should be considered in the context of pregnancy and neonatal risk by race/ethnicity of the parents generally. I removed the two short paragraphs that previously constituted the entire section. All the citations for those two paragraphs were incomplete and formatted incorrectly. In addition, most of the citations were either irrelevant or came from unreliable sources. - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.) 08:05, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Hi. I believe this section is not well placed and should be deleted or moved to another article.
§1 To start with, as the lede and usage sections make it clear, the term "miscegenation" is avoided by scholars because it is a pejorative term that has been (and is) used mostly by proponents of so-called racial purity and racial supremacists. As a consequence, I believe it is important for Wikipedia to avoid justifying its use beyond this historic context of racial discrimination in relationships and marriages. I hence suggest that the article focus on this. Other considerations such as "health risks" should be moved to a separate article titled with a more neutral, more scientific and non-pejorative term. Possible articles may include "Interracial marriage" and "Mixed-race people".
§2 In any case, this "health risk" section is titled negatively ("Health considerations" would be more objective and could feature positive aspects such as heterosis) and featured far too prominently within the article, as if to warn against an important risk. A superficial or less educated reader might get the message that "miscegenation is risky", while the content to this section simply ranks risks by race, with very little to do with the topic of this article. The citations could perhaps have some relevance in an article about unequal access to health care.
As a consequence I trust that deleting this "health risk" section will contribute to improving the quality of this poorly-rated article. All the best, Med 21:28, 22 September 2020 (UTC) M. Dutheil
Much of the research on this page seems to be the direct product of people who treat racial intermixing as a fetish or an opportunity to propagate male sexual power fantasies. Many, if not most, of the sources have little to do with the sections, and almost every statement contains references to the men of one race intermarrying the women of another, with almost no references to the reverse, and the sources to such statements have, after checking many, no visible references to the gender of people in the claims.
192.225.180.2 (
talk) 12:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
mulheres holandesas num forte oriental?ou mestiças de holandeses com locais?quando holandeses vieram pro atlantico nao vinham como anglos nos eua dira no leste isso fede a mentira — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.181.142.31 ( talk) 04:12, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 January 2019 and 17 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Oguerrero98.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 04:16, 17 January 2022 (UTC)