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I have created an archive of the old discussions. There were no current discussions about improving this article, and the talk page was really long. In case anyone needs to know in the future, I used the Move Page method. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 03:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC) . [Written by a new (?) editor.]
"As a physician who has studied Kaiser for 20 years - some 30,000 hours - this summary is completely misleading. I have tried to correct things in the past - erased in the same hour. But if crap is what you want ... that is what you will get. If you find an editor who is not in Kaiser's pocket, let me know.
"Charles Phillips, MD - cphil49401@aoo.com - aka Hospital Cop.
"It is now June 2018. While I see my note from the past put first, I do not take this to mean that you want real facts. So, best of luck. CP" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.210.213.129 ( talk) 10:10, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
Image:Kaiser Permanente.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 22:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
We have to be careful what we write. BLP is for people, not entities, but even entities deserve fair consideration. We don't know if a clerk told Lupoe to kill himself. Disclaimer: I don't have any relationship, past or present, with Kaiser. In fact, I don't think particularly highly of them Spevw ( talk) 02:18, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
"One of the most dubious ventures of the Permanente Company is Kaiser Permanente Ventures, a venture capital firm that invests in emerging medical technologies.[4]" Why is this dubious? Magmagoblin2 ( talk) 02:12, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
In reading through this article, it appears to have a flavor more like a polemic antipathetic to Henry Kaiser and appears editorial and very POV in nature, especially in the HISTORY section. I would suggest the following: 1) if there is serious evidence that Henry Kaiser's re-involvement with the organization caused problems, then remove judgmental words like 'micromanaged' and cite sources with hard numbers, ie show with properly footnoted citations that revenue X1 and membership X2 went to some lower levels Y1 and Y2. 2) while some of the language used here may be quoted from footnoted sources, it is still clearly judgmental in nature and needs to be toned down to meet the NPOV criterion "Prefer non-judgmental language"; 3 Follow the NPOV standards throughout the article... I see from a preceding post here that much of the editing here has been done by a former KP employee with an ax grind... perhaps a more neutral editor who has access to the mentioned and footnoted sources and to other citations on the subject that balances the OPINION shown here can come up with a reasonable re-wording L. Greg ( talk) 03:33, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
This Canadian mental health organization shares a logo, thus is somehow connected. a link should be provided, not sure where, or whether it deserves a full section. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 08:33, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
with 35 medical centers (hospitals), i think we should have them included in the article. any of them which offer Emergency Services should have their own articles, esp. if they have high trauma center ratings. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 03:16, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
The reference to the NHS and UK Department of Health is too favourable to Kaiser Permanente (KP). The study was conducted more than 10 years ago and its impact on NHS/UK health services is vastly overstated. The issue of health care reform in the UK is extremely politically sensitive at the moment and the KP/UK health connection here is written in a manner which seems to overstate its influence, coming across as politically biased towards certain party political ideas. It's just not very objective.
Greetings. The "Governance" section is a bit outdated and I would like to add a listing for Kaiser Permanente's current Boards of Directors and national leadership. I have included URLs for each leader's executive biography from Kaiser Permanente's corporate news website; in addition, this URL can serve as a third-party citation for this data: http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/people.asp?privcapId=173830
The suggested addition begins below. Thank you for your consideration.
Board of Directors Bernard J. Tyson Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Daniel P. Garcia, JD Senior vice president and chief compliance and privacy officer
Kaiser Permanente National Leaders
Bernard J. Tyson Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Jack Cochran, MD, FACS Executive director, The Permanente Federation, LLC
Gregory A. Adams Executive vice president, Kaiser Foundation Hospitals and Health Plan; Group president, Kaiser Permanente Northern California and Mid-Atlantic States; President, Kaiser Permanente Northern California
Benjamin K. Chu, MD, MPH, MACP Executive vice president, Kaiser Foundation Hospitals and Health Plan; Group president, Kaiser Permanente Southern California and Hawaii; President, Kaiser Permanente Southern California
Patrick Courneya, MD Executive vice president, Hospitals, Quality and Care Delivery Excellence; chief medical officer, Medicare Advantage, Cost and Prescription Drug Plans
Philip Fasano Executive vice president and chief information officer
Kathy Lancaster Executive vice president and chief financial officer, Kaiser Foundation Hospitals and Health Plan
Donna Lynne, DrPH Executive vice president Kaiser Foundation Hospitals and Health Plan, Inc.; Group president, Kaiser Permanente Colorado, Northwest and Georgia; President, Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Colorado
Arthur M. Southam, MD, MBA, MPH Executive vice president, Health Plan Operations
Anthony A. Barrueta Senior vice president, Government Relations Raymond J. Baxter, PhD Senior vice president, Community Benefit, Research and Health Policy
Chuck Columbus Senior vice president and chief Human Resources officer, Kaiser Foundation Hospitals and Health Plan
Amy Compton-Phillips, MD Associate executive director, Quality, The Permanente Federation
Chris Grant Senior vice president, Corporate Development, Care Delivery Strategy and Venture Investments
Scott Young, MD Associate executive director, Clinical Care and Innovation, The Permanente Federation, Senior medical director and executive director, Care Management Institute
Mark Zemelman Senior vice president and general counsel
vggolla ( talk) 23:05, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
The following sentence appears to violate Wikipedia:No original research: "Historians now believe then-President Richard Nixon specifically had Kaiser Permanente in mind when he signed the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973, as the organization was mentioned in an Oval Office discussion of the Act, where John Ehrlichman characterized Kaiser's philosophy thus: "All the incentives are toward less medical care, because the less care they give them, the more money they make." The first clause of this sentence is not actually stated in the source cited and is thus clearly original research. No particular "historian" is specifically quoted or cited as drawing that inference about what Nixon was thinking. Any objections before I remove this clear violation of Wikipedia policy? -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 21:55, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi. Vince from KP here. I’ve noticed that there’s an awful lot of editorializing that has crept into this article within the last week. More specifically, the section “Grossly Inadequate Mental Health Care” strikes me as very non-NPOV.
As I look at the article more, it also looks like someone copied the veterans section from a KP source. Most folks in my position probably wouldn’t complain, but I want to make sure we do right by Wikipedia just as much as we might seek fair treatment here.
Anyone willing to help here? Alternatively, I can author suggested text in my Sandbox for you all to evaluate. Let me know, and thank you. vggolla ( talk) 00:12, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
we seem to miscommunicate frequently, yes. you started this thread wanting to ask their drug purchasing manager questions and when I asked what that had to do with content, you replied with the comment about clarifying their profit vs nonprofit business. Now you say that is not why you wanted to hear from their drug manager. Going around in circles here. Anyway, don't know what more there is to say here. Jytdog ( talk) 21:39, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
daaaamnnn this got intense!!!! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
148.75.247.125 (
talk) 10:27, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Example: I noticed that the section “Grossly Inadequate Mental Health Care” seems to have been removed from the article entirely. Seems hard to see the imposition and unappealed payment of "a $4 million fine against Kaiser for not providing adequate health care to its customers" and a strike over the care failures as entirely unworthy of mention. The section above suggests a possible COI issue. User:Jytdog, please comment on your edit and suggest solution. -- Elvey( t• c) 07:59, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
The source code of the page that is the #1 hit at https://www.google.com/search?q=kaiser+for-profit+pharmacies includes the text "for-profit, retail pharmacies filled 73% of U.S. prescriptions in the first half of 2011, and many have to answer to shareholders. They’re more focused on turning a profit than helping you reduce your pharmacy costs." but the web page does not include that content. It appears to be invisible and appears backward when in-page searching is used. Screen shot. -- Elvey( t• c) 07:59, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Hello. Vince from KP here. We continue to see additional editorializing in this article. A link has been added here to a Mercury News article that is 90-plus percent about another health plan with which Kaiser Permanente has zero affiliation. It appears to be an effort to link our organizations in a 'guilt by association' method, seems to be non-NPOV, and very much resembles previous non-NPOV content that I've flagged previously. Thank you for your consideration. vggolla ( talk) 06:02, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
Greetings - Vince from Kaiser Permanente. We've just released our new annual report and all of the demographic data in the first paragraph of the Wikipedia entry is significantly out of date. Could I offer this URL [1] as the basis to change these items? Below is the data in the current entry, followed by the updated data in our most recent annual report.
9.1 million members >> 9.6 million members 174,425 employees >> 177,445 employees 17,425 physicians >> 17,791 physicians 49,778 nurses ((new data, would offer that the audience would likely be interested in this specific measure)) 38 medical centers >> 38 medical centers 608 medical offices >> 620 medical offices $53.1 billion operating revenue >> $56.4 billion operating revenue $2.7 billion net income >> $3.1 billion net income
While I recognize that some will see an annual report reference as NNPOV, I would offer that this merely replaces out-of-date data with the most current annual report data we have available.
Alternatively, as User:StephEng3 suggested here on 00:14, 25 September 2014 (UTC), would you prefer to link to our website so that users have up-to-the-minute information for these sorts of important organizational facts? vggolla ( talk) 00:14, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Greetings. Vince from Kaiser Permanente here. Thank you for your assistance one year ago in updating the basic data for our organization via our annual report. Our latest report is now out -
and I would like to update the basic information in the first two paragraphs of this page, and the callout box in the right margin. We've recently had a journalist hit this page and ask about the differences in the data; thus, it would be helpful to update this as soon as convenient. I'm also happy to make those basic edits and ask user:Jytdog or others to review, as I did 00:14, 12 August 2015 (UTC). Please advise, and thank you.
References
vggolla ( talk) 16:44, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Sept. 6, 2016 - I do not understand this "Talk" section or how it might relate to improvement of the master document on Kaiser Permanente - wkipedia; that is missing all of the following:
1. in 1997 after budget shortfalls related to the Balanced Budget Act, the Permanente physicians staged a coup in Oakland where they presented the Permanente Federation as the new, central MD organization with an MD to sit permanently near (same floor of the Ordway Building) the KP charities CEO, created the Kaiser Permanente Partnership Group (KPPG) with Dr. Crosson as the lead "co-chair" that met monthly for ten years under Dr. Crosson and told the public, charity boards - Plan and Hospitals - what to do; as Dr. Crosson dictated for the KP Oral History at the Bancroft Library, the charity Boards followed the KPPG advice "99 %";
2. The purpose of the physicians demanding more control is that since 1960 in the KP Medical Service Agreement - copy in Library of Congress - Article K - there has been a profit split of 50:50 between the Plan and the MDs which comes out for each of perhaps 6000 partners over $5000 a month in delayed income, and the MDs explained in the Permanente Journal that if the money dipped this created for KP "near death" situations - the clear implication was that if there was no massive MD profit and the partners would quit;
3. This KP Wikipedia article (we are "talk"-ing" about) tells many fibs, e.g. that the MDs are still primarily regional in governance (No) and that they are only "salaried" (No), - the latter "salaried" term misses the whole profit split; that profit split was called in 1956 the "Tahoe Agreement," reflected in every MSA and regional derivatives (Kansas Courthouse), and was updated after the coup to become "Tahoe Two" though "Kaiser" Public Relations has tried to hide or minimize the profit split ever since;
4. Any attempt to "edit" the main KP-Wikipedia document lasts less than 24 hours without explanation - so it is than really just another Public Relations document for Kaiser Permanente fooling the readers in the first half and then losing the readers in the second half with minutia about less global contests; even their the large renal transplant debacle fine is not mentioned - perhaps $5 million (though Kaiser has many ways to pay such things through shifting charity donations);
5. The Kaiser Health News is the main product of the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF) the latter which is closely related - despite protestations - to the Kaiser Permanente three headed organization, e.g. Kim Kaiser was on the KFF Board as trustee and is now on the KP Board (there is always a family member); KHN in Washington, DC has swallowed up many of the best health care reporters who previously would report both sides of real issues;
6. The Affordable Care Act - Obamacare - has created a Blue Ribbon Panel called PCORI - Patient Centered Outcome Research Institute - which is controlled by Kaiser through CEO Joe Selby, MD and Board Member Sharon Levine (both of which are at risk like all current or past MD partners with having their huge vested retirements withdraw because they are "alienable" or removable if loyalty to KP is ever disputed); Dr. Selby was with Kaiser for 27 years and Dr. Levine (plus her MD husband Dr. Crosson) for 35 years - of these three only Dr. Levine is still there in the number two position - The Associate Director of The Permanente Medical Group with the Director always being Dr. Mark Robert Pearl.
So, who is the TALK "editor" and how long will this short note last on "TALK"? Even the "save" step can be hard to find. I do not expect this Talk note to survive 24 hours - so I dated it. I picked "Archive" so it might be read and improve the reputation of Wikipedia to properly inform the public.
Gator, MD Gator.MD ( talk) 04:05, 6 September 2016 (UTC) ````
Greetings. Vince from Kaiser Permanente here. Group Health Cooperative is now Kaiser Permanente, and Kaiser Permanente now serves more than 11.3 million members. I would like to update the first two paragraphs of the entry with this simple, factual information, citing articles such as this one: [1]
Would that be OK? Thank you for your consideration. vggolla ( talk) 21:35, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
References
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This is from the third paragraph
However, Kaiser has had disputes with its employees' unions, repeatedly faced civil and criminal charges for falsification of records and patient dumping, faced action by regulators over the quality of care it provided, especially to patients with mental health issues, and has faced criticism from activists and action from regulators over the size of its cash reserves.
Where are the citations?
Shouldn’t there be some mention of the acquisition (if that’s the right term) of Group Health?
(I see one earlier mention of doing so here on the Talk page, from 2017, but it didn’t get implemented.) Rob Cranfill ( talk) 18:02, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
This is the only entry under "see also" --
"Heather O'Rourke (1975–1988) – child actress who became ill in 1987 and was misdiagnosed by doctors of Kaiser Permanente Hospital. She died on February 1, 1988, and a lawsuit followed shortly thereafter."
Isn't that a little random? Is that the proper use of the "see also" section?
Maybe it's appropriate. I'm just bringing it up.
Middleground1 ( talk) 19:35, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
The section on controversies concludes with a substantial paragraph about the measures being taken by the firm to address the union's issues. While it does contain some easily-verified statistics, such as the number of individuals involved and the timeframe of negotiations, much of the paragraph is dedicated to promoting Kaiser as making substantial changes very much in favor of the company. The fact that there is no citation but the is a direct link to Kaiser's Labor Management Partnership website leads me to believe at best this is an irresponsible addition and at worst a press release added in bad-faith. In either case until a citation is added I believe everything after the fourth sentence needs to be removed. TenantSea ( talk) 01:03, 16 October 2022 (UTC)