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On 15 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Kaiser Family Foundation to KFF. The result of the discussion was NOT moved. |
On 16 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to KFF (nonprofit). The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This is a really important health publisher in addition to whatever other philanthropy it does. I'll add this to my watchlist and improve the article with reliable sources, but please give me some time. Notability is totally not in question here. This might be the biggest AIDS-related charity in the world. -- JayHenry 17:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
It appears that the organization advocates the methods of reproductive health, which include contraception and abortion. This should probably be added to the article because those things are still controversial in many parts of the world. ADM ( talk) 10:28, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
As a communications officer employed by the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation (also known as the Kaiser Family Foundation or KFF), I am raising the issue that numerous edits made by ChuckPhillipsMD in late August 2010 do not adhere to Wikipedia’s standards for “Neutral Point of View.” Much of the contributions are conjecture and lack any citation. In many cases, we believe the edits are inaccurate and misleading, particularly in the way they seek to connect our organization, the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, with other, unrelated entities that share the Kaiser name. While we are named for a common ancestor, our Foundation is not in any way affiliated with Kaiser Permanente, Kaiser Foundation Health Plans, Kaiser Industries or any other Kaiser enterprise.
It appears as though Dr. Phillips has a history with Kaiser Permanente and is trying to associate the Kaiser Family Foundation with Kaiser Permanente. Since 1985, the two organizations have had no association at all, as is cited in the article on footnote 3.
The edits show malice and intent to prove a relationship between the two organizations. The tone, spelling mistakes, incomplete sentences and lack of citations suggests more of a rant than a neutral presentation of facts and history.
I have included below a response to each of the contributions in question.
Introduction:
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: The Foundation states that it is a "non-partisan source of facts and analysis for policymakers, the media, the health care community, and the general public."[1]
History:
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: Often the Kaiser Permanente tripartate organization - Plan, Hospitals, and Permanente physicians - turned to the Kaiser Family Foundation for grants (no payback needed) and loans. This is discussed by Dr. John Smillie in his book called in secondary title The Story of the Permanente Medical Group. This included various startups including Hawaii. And there has always been a member of the Kaiser family on the Health Plan/Hospitals Board; most recently Mr. Henry Mead Kaiser resigned and Mr. Kim Kaiser took his place. Mr. Kim Kaiser's resume on the KP website shows that he was also at one time a Kaiser Family Foundation Trustee (no dates supplied).
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: This was a loss to Oakland, although the KP organization is still centered there at One Kaiser Plaza.
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: The composition of the Kaiser "family" is as private as is the KFF's history (very short online). Apparently, the "family" would mostly represent the descendants of the three children Mr. Kaiser had with his first wife Bess. These family members were apparently surprised that Mr. Kaiser's second wife was Ale Chester - Bess Kaiser's nurse (and often present with Mr. and Mrs. Kaiser in thier residences like in Lake Tahoe). Mr. Kaiser announced his plans to marry Ale two days after Bess died and the marriage took place within a month - in Santa Barbara. (This is discussed in the book Henry J. Kaiser Western Collosus on page 366-368.)
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: When Mr. Kaiser died in 1967, Ale got half the estate; the other half went to KFF. Ale sold all equities, moved far away, and remarried. Mr. Kaiser's children got very little directly but had the authority to run the Kaiser Industries businesses and the Kaiser Family Foundation. Thereafter, it is hard to follow the family influence - no online list of KFF trustees year to year, etc. Clearly the Kaiser businesses - other than Kaiser Aluminum - did not do well without Mr. Kaiser, Sr. and without President Roosevelt's need for private solutions
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: According to the Washington Post 2009 article "Health Care? He's got it covered," CEO Drew Altman started in 1990 with KFF and directed "a complete overhaul of the Foundation's mission and operating style." In the reporter's words - reporter Lois Ramono - he changed a "sleepy grant-making organization" (some $30 million a year interest on the $400 million endowment) into a primary news source organization. "Altman concluded it would have to trade in information - not money."
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: The article does not map out the progression into trading in information, but KFF has progressed from funding polls through Harvard-Washington Post "partnerships," to giving reporters in health care awards, to funding reporters with "fellowships," and to finally hiring many of them full time to run the Kaiser Health News.
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: The launch of the Kaiser Health News (KHN) in 2009 meant that KFF could through the news outlet tell people - in side to side comparison - what the two political parties were saying on health topics. And the legitamacy of KHN was and is to be assumed because the reporters were coming from former jobs at national newspapers (often the same ones that had contracts before like the Washington Post, the USA Today, etc.).
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: But the website did not and does not describe the previous and current "partnerships" with newspapers. Clearly the Kaiser name gets out with each article. The implication of a any poll involving KFF, Harvard University, and the Washington Post would be "trust" as if they came together in neutrality rather than the article being a KFF pay-for-view.
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: Also, unmentioned is the permanently funded professor chairmanships at UC Berkeley, Stanford University, Harvard University, and Johns Hopkins University. These are Henry J. Kaiser Professorships. The same four universities have experts who often show up in newspaper articles supporting the Kaiser Permanente (Health Plan) organization.
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: In one blog article (without a bibliography) called the "Legacy of Henry J. Kaiser" written in 2008, the author suggests that the original purpose of the KFF was to support the "medical plan." Also, there were comments that Mr. Kaiser had accumulated $2.5 billion. One blog responder to this was a KHN editor - Mr. Fairhall - who countered a comment that the KHN reporters seemed to lean Democratic in polotical donations - by saying that the Kaiser Health News was, in fact, "an editorially independent part of KFF."
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: In the end, salary dependence and editorial independence become the question of every media organization. Certainly any lead group that controls information going both to the politicians and to the voters has a lot of power over this large area of the state and federal budget. Moving the reporters inside KFF took almost 20 years of planning by CEO Altman. But the "Kaiser" brand name does get an "overhaul" as promised by him.
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: Despite the continuous assertion that the Kaiser family only "started" the two separate organizations - KFF and KP - (same Washington Post article), the announced profits of KP ("excess revenue") of over $2 billion a year (Fitch bond analysis of the 2007 year) suggest that the parallel efforts of KFF and KP on the "Kaiser" brand name has money consequences way beyond just family name legacy. At the same time, the online KFF budget has over the years become less transparent and history shorter.
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: Those newspapers that might wish to explore these topics know that the Kaiser Permanente Thrive (health plan) organization spends $45 million a year in ads. There is an excess of silence as noted by the Wikipedia invitation (at the beginning of this article of KFF) that someone should try to explain more.
Policy Research & Analysis:
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: The Foundation publishes research and analysis of health-care issues, and states that much of its research especially concerns persons with low income or those who are otherwise especially vulnerable to health-care cost, such as the uninsured, those with chronic illnesses, or Medicaid/Medicare recipients.[4] For example, KFF formed the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured (KCMU) in 1991.
References:
ChuckPhillipsMD contribution: John G. Smillie, M.D. "Can Physicians Manage the Quality and Costs of Health Care? - The Story of the Permanente Medical Group." 1991 - Thanks on page "xi" under "Acknowledgements" were extended to "The Board of Directors of The Permanente Medical Group" ... and "the Kaiser Family Foundation." At one point - according to "About the Author" within the book - Dr. Smillie was the "government relations representative" .. and "liason from all the Permanente medical groups to the Central Office of the Kaiser Foundation Health Plan in Oakland, California." KP Web site: "2nd printing. Oakland, CA: The Permanente Federation, Inc, 2000. The Permanente Federation has reprinted and makes available this book for $2 per copy. Minimum order is 40 copies. Please arrange bulk purchases through Permanente Federation Communications at 510-271-5955."
Albert Heiner "Henry J. Kaiser: Western Colossus" 434 pages - Halo Books (August 1991) - Product Description - "Through a good portion of Kaiser's career Al Heiner was there - as a public relations officer for Kaiser Steel but also as an eyewitness to mainy of the events ..."
--Robin Sidel, Kaiser Family Foundation 15:51, 11 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsidel ( talk • contribs)
I had talked with Rsidel from Kaiser Family Foundation on the phone and gave this person a little tour of Wikipedia. Rsidel wanted to develop this Wikipedia article, and I told them that there was a lot of ambiguity about Wikipedia policy in developing articles about one's own employer. The issue is the bias which comes from conflict of interest. Wikipedia:Plain and simple conflict of interest guide is one popular piece of guidance. I also said that editing the article directly is an option, and that I would review the article if they did edit it. Here is a round of edits from May 2015. I will review this version below.
The lead seems fine.
The first paragraph in "Policy analysis and research" is without a third party citation. If this information is important to include, then it ought to come with a citation per WP:V. If there is no citation then it should be removed. Currently this is backed with a promotional citation back to the KFF's own website and their own presentation of their brand, instead of a presentation of how a neutral third party sees the brand.
The last paragraph in that section says "Kaiser is well known for public opinion research... often in partnership with major news organizations". The claim about being "well known" is without a reference so is WP:PEACOCK language and should be removed. The citations to verify the partnerships are considered self published sources, because KFF is a coauthor of these pieces. Organizations routinedly have partnerships, and they become notable enough for mention in Wikipedia when some third party - meaning not the organizations coordinating the partnership - mention it.
In the "health news and information" section it says "The Foundation also sponsors training and site visits for health care reporters". One citation for this is to KFF and the other is to a passing mention of someone receiving a fellowship. Wikipedia fact checking is brainless in this in that it is simply supposed to reflect what is said, and not draw conclusions. To add information about the Foundation's sponsorship of training, someone needs to have covered the program critically or in the spirit of journalism. A passing mention is not a reliable source for establishing that the program is significant enough for Wikipedia coverage.
There is a mention about KFF's support for HIV/AIDS awareness and this goes with citations to the CDC and the World Economic Forum. The precedent on Wikipedia is when a large organization mentions a partnership with a much smaller one, like government partnership with a private organization, then citing the government page is appropriate as is mentioning the relationship on the page of the smaller organization. There is no citation for KFF's support for Global Media AIDS Initiative and actually, if anything happened to draw attention to the Wikipedia article for that project, it would likely be examined for deletion due to lack of citations. Consider the stability of that article and its relationship to this one.
The history section is without citations but that is a legacy from other editors. It could be trimmed.
If I were to summarize all criticism, it would be to say that ideally a Wikipedia article should have every sentence backed with a citation to the source of information from which it is derived.
In my opinion this article is a fine submission to Wikipedia but it is likely than when it is reviewed (which could take years, or be triggered if KFF ever gets in the news) then everything without a citation is likely to be cut and the remaining citations will be considered against the model at WP:RS.
Cool article! Good job! It reads well and is an improvement over what was there before. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:42, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: NOT moved. not PTOPIC ( non-admin closure) Captain Jack Sparrow ( talk) 09:35, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
– Kaiser Family Foundation is now legally DBA as KFF. More about our name change is here https://www.kff.org/about-us/#kff-name and major media outlets are citing our health policy research as KFF (examples: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/12/your-money/medical-care-credit-cards.html and https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/10/health/fda-otc-birth-control-pill.html as well as the Wall Street Journal https://www.wsj.com/articles/your-health-insurance-is-giving-you-trouble-heres-how-to-fight-back-103c4fb7 and CNN https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/15/politics/health-insurance-understanding-problems/index.html). Ideally, our Wikipedia page would be titled KFF, but if that's not possible, KFF (formerly Kaiser Family Foundation) would suffice. The majority of the traffic to our website is from Google which carries the Wikipedia title as "Kaiser Family Foundation" causing confusion. Rsidel ( talk) 15:09, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
The majority of the traffic to our website is from Google which carries the Wikipedia title as "Kaiser Family Foundation" causing confusionis the epitome of a bad reason for a move. Wikipedia does not exist to promote organisations on their terms. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 13:27, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
Is the KFF a Think tank? It seems to be quite similar to the UK Health Foundation which is categorised as a Think Tank, in which case it should be added to Category:Think_tanks and List of think tanks in the United States Philh-591 ( talk) 20:01, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. While it appears there is a suitable case that the article needs to be moved (as it is no longer a foundation, as described in the lead) the responses here do not indicate a preference for a move. Another RM should probably be opened with either an alternative suggestion we can agree with, (such as KFF (American organization), which was brought up but not mentioned by another reply) or suitable evidence that this topic is the primary topic for the abbreviation "KFF", which might be difficult as there are probably multiple condenders. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 19:17, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Kaiser Family Foundation → KFF (nonprofit) – Apparently, the organization rebranded itself to KFF in May 2023 (I can't find a source for exactly when, but Rsidel, who works for the organization, requested the rename in June 2023 and cited some sources from May). Since then, it looks like independent sources have adopted the new name, making a page move appropriate per WP:NAMECHANGES.
Here is a selection of articles from after the rename. I've made sure not to include articles written by KFF (since a lot of them do get republished by reputable sources), and I've quoted the first mention of KFF. It's hard to search for independent references because of all the republications, but in my own search I did not find any counterexamples.
Neil Shah-Quinn ( talk) 23:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 20:31, 24 February 2024 (UTC)