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Overall this article was very disappointing for anyone who would wish to inquire about their heritage, in the global sense and not regional specific (which again is very pitiful of its own state). I suggest for starters to change the ridiculous title to Indian. Not Indian people, just Indian. Its your name, your damn namesake, you don't have to elaborate upon it to that degree which just further denigrates your own ethnic identity and is an affront to the pejorative label used to native americans. Secondly I don't know why this article is so sparse on such a huge subject when supposedly you have one of the oldest civilizations in the world, and its obvious that you have some expertise on the matter when you're debating on how white/european you are compared to your fellows. So I would at this point just vote for the very least a name change, and suggestion to revamp this article and add more depth and character to the historical portion of it (major shifts, changes, cultural origins research and theory of evolutionary anthropology, modern shifts in demographics, SES (sociology), etc... Or start from scratch and delete the whole thing, or preferably, if there exists an article with more detailed information on Indians in any context, merger it with a name change. Please take it into consideration and play your part in sharing your ethnic identity — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Raiders88 (
talk •
contribs) 10:33, 13 July 2014 (UTC)reply
Formal Introduction
Indian actually means <All that is Otherwise>. By the way, the Caucasus Mountains are actually found in India. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Bill Riojas Mclemore (
talk •
contribs) 19:39, 25 September 2011 (UTC)reply
Poor article, outdated views
This article, especially much of the paragraph on Genetics is outdated, and mixes modern results with 1950s view of races: Caucasoid, Mongoloid, etc. This classification has been long abandoned as being too vague and inconsistent. The modern view is that much of the population of India (ASI) and (ANI) have strong affinities to West Asia and Europe and also to a lesser degree with peoples of Asia as well. The Indian female-lineage mtDNA are varied and the the majority (50%) belong to haplogroup M, which is related to Asian haplogroups, but the Indian M is very different and is much more ancient and diverse, suggesting ancestral connection with Asian populations, not admixtures. The Asian influence is more visible in eastern India. The rest of the mtDNA haplogroups U, H, etc. are found in West Asia and Europe. The male Y-chromosome groups show much stronger affinity to European populations, and the very low degree of Asian Y-chromosomes (both in ANI and ASI populations) do not necessarily mean there was no affinity with Asian groups; it only means that those haplogroups have not survived to the present day.
ASI groups are older, but that does not mean they were "driven" further south by ANI groups (this "Aryan invasion" theory was always very flawed). The modern view is that ASI was present throughout the continent from eastern Iran to southern India, but language and cultural displacements happen without groups being driven out or killed. Northern India has had more contact with West Asia and Asia minor (Greece included). These contacts have made ANI group more genetically connected with West Asia than ASI has had with West Asia. But ASI and ANI are more closer to each other than either is to any groups outside. There has been a good synthesis between ANI and ASI over the last several thousand years. How closely they were related before the admixture took place is still current research.
Modern anthropologists would classify non-tribal Indians (both ANI and ASI) along with West Asians and European populations because of the reasons given above. And most Indians are non-tribal (over 95%). Tribal Indian populations (5%) show much stronger affinity with Asian populations. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.122.244.4 (
talk) 00:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)reply
THERE IS NOT PROOF THAT INDIANS ARE CAUCASIAN!
Someone please change that statement made in the Genetics section, since it has not been proven as to whether Indians are Caucasian or are based off of the people from
Mohenjo-daro. This statement is making people believe things that haven't been proven. --
BoBjOnEsPiE (
Send me a message) 22:45, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
This should not be a platform to disseminate erroneous or subjective views of what Indians are and should be. Indians, both of North and South, speaking both Indo-European and Dravidian languages are vastly caucasians. So the discerning reader should be weary of those who advance their own agenda and delusions. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
113.10.118.190 (
talk) 04:08, 5 January 2012 (UTC)reply
First off, please stop your shouting (that is how all caps is perceived) and read
WP:Verifiability, for starters. If you believe that the article is currently inaccurate, then you should provide reliable sources for what you believe to be the truth. Until then your edits will be seen as vandalism and reverted, and you yourself are in danger of getting blocked. Evanh2008,Super GeniusWho am I?You can talk to me... 04:37, 5 January 2012 (UTC)reply
Weird name - Indian people
What kind of word is "Indian People"? This article should be redirected to
Indian. One does not call Pakistani People, or Chinese People or American People. Of course, I understand that it is partly because of
Native Americans being called Indians in
USA and
Canada. For the rest of the world, Indians mean people inhabiting or having their origins to the country of
India.
rams81 (
talk) 20:15, 8 February 2012 (UTC)reply
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CommonsNotificationBot (
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England is not a state
England is part of the United Kingdom, should not be listed at all. And it defintitely cann't contain more Indian people than the whole UK — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
89.243.127.166 (
talk) 08:14, 8 October 2012 (UTC)reply
We Have to create a montage image soon
Guy i think that we have to create a montage image as soon as possible
PerumalismChat 12:00, 24 December 2012 (UTC)reply
I have one, I'm working on sorting everybody out and should be up soon for preview.
PacificWarrior101 (
talk) 03:18, 13 February 2014 (UTC)PacificWarrior101reply
My Montage
Here is a montage I created and am proposing. Images are ordered from historical chronology, and then ethnic group (Bengali, Tamil, Telugu).
Please understand that the Indians are a very large race, I simply cannot include every single revolutionary or Bollywood actress because that would be like 40 people, and I'm not going to either. I gotta give some occupations a chance (astronaut, athlete, singer, actress...etc.)
I know this mosaic is probably a cause a huge outcry of missing people, I'm aware and I know who those people are, but again, I can't stress enough that I can't put every single revolutionary, author, poet as you can how crowded it is and every single Bollywood person. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
PacificWarrior101 (
talk •
contribs) 03:41, 15 February 2014 (UTC)reply
Chandragupta Maurya - founder of the Mauryan Empire and the first emperor to unify India into one state.
Rajendra Chola I - historic Tamil ruler who extended Chola Empire's borders to Southeast Asia
Gautama Buddha - spiritual sage, of Naryanka royal origin and the founder of Buddhism
Guru Arjan - fifth Sikh guru, completed construction of Amritsar and founded other cities, first to compile complete Sikh writings
Akbar the Great - Mughal emperor, who almost conquered the entire Indian Subcontinent and formed a centralized society in the empire, also founder of the Din-e-Illahi movement
Rani Durgavati - Rajput queen that defended against attacks by the Ghaznavids
Shah Jahan - fifth Mughal emperor, famous for building projects in the empire
2nd row, left to right:
Chand Bibi - Indian Muslim woman warrior. She acted as the Regent of Bijapur and Regent of Ahmednagar Indian Muslim woman warrior. She acted as the Regent of Bijapur and Regent of Ahmednagar'
Rani Lakshmibai - queen of the Maratha-ruled princely state of Jhansi, situated in the north-central part of India and resisted British rule, became a popular symbol of resistance against British rule
Abdul-Masih - Indigenous Christian missionary during British rule, one of the most important leaders in shaping Christian missionaries in India
Mahatma Ghandi - The famous lawyer who led the non-violent independence struggle, that eventually led to India's independence
Jawaharlal Nehru - First prime minister of India, and was the architect of India's independence movement, fought alongside Ghandi
Indira Ghandi - Daughter of Nehru, third prime minister of India and prominent member of Indian National Congress Party, who strengthened Indian influence in South Asia and wielded influence in government of India
3rd row, left to right:
Rabindranath Tagore - Bengali poet, author of India's national anthem and Nobel Peace Prize winner, first non-European
Swami Vivekananda - Hindu monk, key figure in the introduction of the Indian philosophies of Vedanta and Yoga to the Western world, raised interfaith awareness, brought Hinduism to the status of a major world religion
Ram Mohan Roy - religious, social, and educational reformer, and humanitarian, who challenged traditional Hindu culture and indicated the lines of progress for Indian society under British rule, father of modern India and of Bengali reinassance
Ravi Shankar - musician who was one of the best-known exponents of the sitar in the second half of the 20th century as well as a composer of Hindustani classical music.
Rani Mukerji - film actress for Bollywood, she has become one of the most high-profile celebrities in India, received seven Filmfare Awards from fourteen nominations, and her film roles have been cited as a significant departure from the traditional portrayal of women in mainstream Hindi cinema.
Gurazada Apparao - Telugu poet and writer of Andhra Pradesh, India, wrote the first Telugu play
N.T. Rama Rao - film actor, director, producer, and politician who also served as the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh for three terms.
4th row, left to right:
Kambar - a medieval Tamil poet and the author of the Tamil Ramayanam Ramavatharam, popularly known as Kambaramayanam, the Tamil version of Ramayana
C.V. Raman - Indian physicist whose ground breaking work in the field of light scattering earned him the 1930 Nobel Prize for Physics.
Viswanathan Anand - Indian chess Grandmaster and former World Chess Champion
M. S. Subbulakshmi - renowned Carnatic vocalist, first musician ever to be awarded the Bharat Ratna, India's highest civilian honor and first Indian musician to receive the Ramon Magsaysay award, often considered Asia's Nobel Prize
Kalpana Chawla - first Indian-American astronaut and first Indian woman in space
Aishwarya Rai Bachchan - Indian film actress and model. She was the first runner-up of the Miss India pageant, and the winner of the Miss World pageant of 1994, also known for her various film awards and achievements
Sachin Tendulkar - Indian professional cricketer, considered best batsmen in the world
This article is about citizens of India, not former counrries. Use only people from India after 1947.--
213.47.76.227 (
talk) 19:57, 26 March 2014 (UTC)reply
I did, these people are from the modern state of India.
PacificWarrior101 (
talk) 17:33, 26 April 2014 (UTC)PacificWarrior101He'reply
Copyright problem removed
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Diannaa (
talk) 18:54, 15 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Indo-Aryan migration
I find it laughable that this article doesn't even bother talking about the migration of Indo-Aryan-speaking tribes into North India who were responsible for the rise of the Vedic civilization mentioned in that paragraph. Every credible history of South Asia talks about this. It seems this article is written by and for largely diasporic Hindu nationalists who cannot countenance foreign roots for part of their civilization. Btw, for all those convinced that the "Aryan invasion theory" is a disproven colonial lie, there is a HUGE difference between that theory and one of "Aryan migration" which is accepted by credible scholars like Michael Witzel, JP Mallory, etc. According to the latter, Indo-Iranian speaking tribes migrated from Central Asia to the subcontinent as part of a wave of Indo-European expansion that covered south-central Asia during the 2nd millennium BC. They weren't a race but a group of tribes that spoke a common language and followed a common culture. Their languages become dominant in norther South Asia and their culture became that of the Vedic civilization, which mixed with Dravidian and local tribal cultures to form the Hindu-Buddhist civilization of the classical era. This migration needs to be included in the history somewhere.
Hurvashtahumvata888 (
talk) 07:29, 8 December 2014 (UTC)reply
I don't think that Ecuador, with a population of 100 Indians as in the article, constitutes a region with a significant population.
The Average Wikipedian (
talk) 13:58, 6 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Requested move 1st April 2015
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: We have a consensus to movePakistani people,
Bengali people, and
Sri Lankan Tamil people. Of these, "Pakistani people" has already been moved through another discussion. We have no consensus to move
Indian people or
Turkish people, and indeed, the consensus on Turkish people approaches a consensus not to move.
Cúchullaint/
c 14:14, 11 May 2015 (UTC)reply
Support Makes everyones job simpler. Don't think many people will search "Indian people" or "Bengali people" when it comes to it.
Étienne Dolet (
talk) 09:08, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose moving
Indian people to
Indians; it risks confusion between the people of India and the pre-European natives of the Americas. No opinion on the others.
209.211.131.181 (
talk) 17:13, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
209.211.131.181Native Americans are not and never were [[India|Indian]]. I honestly do not think that we should pander to myth and fallacy.
GregKaye 14:54, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Strong support – Ethnic groups that have a singular non-gendered unambiguous name are usually labelled as such. See
Hungarians,
Swedes,
Germans,
Americans. Only in cases where such a form doesn't exist, as with
French people or
Japanese people, is the form "x people" used. Per
WP:CONSISTENCY and
WP:CONCISE, this article should be moved. See others in
Category:Ethnic groups in Europe, for example. The proposed titles are simply better. Insofar as "Indians" are concerned, "Indian people" could just as well refer to "American Indians". However, on the whole, it is extremely rare for "Indian" to refer to American Indians unqualified. The
primary topic of the word "Indians" is the people of India. Conveniently, there is already a hat note in place at this article, directing people elsewhere for other usages. That solves the problem definitively. Please carry out these moves.
RGloucester —
☎ 18:14, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I support moving Pakistani people → Pakistanis, Bengali people → Bengalis, and Sri Lankan Tamil people → Sri Lankan Tamils. However I oppose moving Indian people → Indians and Turkish people → Turks. The page
Indians currently is a redirect to the disambiguation page
Indian, the term Indian may refer to the people of India or many of the
Indigenous peoples of the Americas. The term 'Turk' is very ambiguous and could easily refer either to the
Turkish people or the
Turkic peoples (the Turkish people of Turkey being a Turkic people), currently
Turks is a direct to the disambiguation page
Turk. Perhaps close this request and reopen with one request for Pakistani people, Bengali people and Sri Lankan Tamil people, and then seperate requests for the Turkish people and Indian people proposals.
Ebonelm (
talk) 19:16, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I can understand your opposition, and I think that your suggestion is wise. That does not mean that I'm not baffled that "Turks" does not redirect to
Turkish people. "Turks" is used to mean people from Turkey in English. It is never used for "Turkic peoples". We go by English common usage, which clearly uses "Turks" exclusively for people from Turkey. I doubt most Anglophones are even aware of the large variety of Turkic groups. Regardless, in the case of "Indians", should "Indian people" also not be a redirect to the dab, then? There is no difference between "Indian people" and "Indians". They mean the same thing, except that one is shorter. If you are arguing that the people of India are not the primary topic for "Indian", we might as well rename this article "
People of India".
RGloucester —
☎ 22:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Neither point is true, actually. I see "Turks" all the time for various Turkic peoples of central Asia or eastern Europe. And while Native Americans are called "Indians", AFAIK they are never called "Indian people". Though we could easily place Hindians and Anatolian Turks as the primary topics of "Indians" and "Turks", with hat notes to dab pages. I don't have any opinion on that.
While we're on the topic, most Eurasian ethnic terms use the base name as a dab page for the people vs the language, as e.g. at
Bengali. However, there are a few editors who have gotten into furious edit wars over American terms, insisting that the base name be the people. The effect seems to be that for "advanced" peoples, languages get equal billing (the French language is as important as the French people), but for "primitive" peoples, it's hardly worth making the distinction. Anyway, just a thought, since this proposal is based on consistency between articles. —
kwami (
talk) 17:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Please provide a reference where "Turks" refers to anyone other than people from Turkey. Without added context, "Turks" alone always refers to people from Turkey. American Indians are called American Indians. They are never called "Indians" alone in a context other than the colloquial, or where an American context is extremely clear. They can also be called "American-Indian people". Regardless, if we ignore all this, both of these are clearly the
WP:PRIMARYTOPICs.
RGloucester —
☎ 17:12, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Actually, "turks" is used in some situations to describe rowdy people, it's a racist use, but
Young turks is pretty common.
Montanabw(talk) 22:13, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
SupportEbonelm's suggestion. "Indians" and "Turks" should be kept as redirects to the respective disambiguation pages.
Huon (
talk) 22:00, 1 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Comment: Indian people belongs to
west bengal are also called as
Bengalis. So, how will you distinguish between them? What about Étienne Dolet's oppose? He has also given right fact.☆★Sanjeev Kumar (
talk) 06:09, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
And why would we distinguish them? Being a
Bengali by ethnicity (Bengali people [...] are the principal ethnic group to the region of Bengal, [...] between Bangladesh and India.) and an
Indian by nationality (Indians are citizens of India, [...] The Indian nationality consists of many regional ethno-linguistic groups) is not mutually exclusive.
No such user (
talk) 08:30, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Support, coincidently this move coincides with a larger multi page RM the I have since made and which covers similar ground. However, I agree with
Ebonelm in regard to "Turks" and would support
Turks (Turkish people). This is on the basis that Turks are the most common reference to the group and I don't think that it should get into Wikipedia's remit to present content that is not faithful to realities. Turks is the natural designation and the parenthesis sensibly adds to content.
GregKaye 14:48, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose: Mostly due to the substantial confusion with
Native American people. The word "Indian" or "Indians" is appropriate as a dab. While @
GregKaye: makes a valid point that "Indian" as used to describe
Indigenous people of the Americas is generally discouraged today and is indeed offensive to many (highly offensive to some, not very offensive to others), the reality is that it is embedded into United States Law (see, e.g.,
Indian Child Welfare Act, etc.) While there are also movements to change some team names for the same reason ( notably [{Cleveland Indians]] ) the reality is that the word exists with this meaning. So it is not "myth" or "fallacy" - it IS the alleged confusion (or more likely propaganda) of Columbus, made 500 years ago, but it stuck for about 450 of those years. Even today, some people view "America Indian" as acceptable (see, e.g.
American Indian Movement) It's going to be at least another 50 or so before it goes, and even then we will be dealing with the issue in historic documents.
Montanabw(talk) 08:28, 8 April 2015 (UTC) (actually !voted several days ago, just realized I hadn't signed).reply
No confusion exists. American Indians are "American Indians", not "Indians". A hat note is already provided.
RGloucester —
☎ 23:47, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Not so, in the USA, we often clarify "East Asian Indian" from "American Indian." You apparently are from the UK, so maybe you are not aware of this. A totally genric
google search makes the confusion obvious, as do the suggested links for refining the search. Both "Indian" and "Indians" need to be dab pages. I'm not going to go to the mat for the kazillion other articles in this RM, but I am on this one.
Montanabw(talk) 00:01, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Wikipedia does not exist in an American bubble. Outside of an American context, only "American Indian" is used. Even in an American context, Americans refer to people from India as "Indians". They do not say "East Asian Indian", given that India isn't even in "East Asia".
RGloucester —
☎ 00:05, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
They also don't say "American Indian". I have some sympathy for people from India here, but in the Americas (north and south), if one says "Indian", the listener will first assume American Indian. (see, e.g.
Cleveland Indians and
Native American mascot controversy) Maybe "south Asian" is a better way of saying it than "east Asian" or even "Asian" (given that India also is not "west Asia"); colloquially, I will acknowledge that folks in the USA are actually most apt to say "Indian from India" or "person from India" in our real world. I'm all for precision, but this one is one for a dab. No question about it, we have 320 million plus people here, which is fewer than the population of India, I agree, but enough to suggest a dab is a wise choice on this one.
Montanabw(talk) 04:24, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
RGloucester, I live in a state with seven recognized Indian tribes, so I am familiar with the way the word is used. (and here people who are Native American outnumber people who are of Asian Indian ancestry). You simply fail to understand that the primary locations that "American Indian" is used in the USA are places such as academe where there is possible confusion with Asian Indians. Note
Indian Reservation, and so on. Conversely, [Indian people Indian people] clearly links to India. I am not trying to claim that roughy 2 million Native Americans can trump over a billion people in India, I am only pointing out that "Indian" is a real word for two groups of people, even if one is due to a misnomer that is 500 years old.
Montanabw(talk) 00:50, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
If that's the case, the present title is no good, and must be got rid of. What do you propose? "People of India"? "Bharat people"? What about "Indian people" links to "India", if "Indians" does not? If American Indians are just "Indians", and if they have "Indian reservations", clearly "Indian people" actually refers to American Indians? You just said that "Indian" is a word for two groups of people. If that's the case, it cannot clearly "link to India". You're talking in circles and making no sense. Please try.
RGloucester —
☎ 03:08, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I oppose the move of "Indian people" to just "Indians" - which can refer to multiple entities, including two different racial groups, a nationality and (unfortunately) multiple sports teams. I can live with the current title, as any ambiguity there is only between two possible ethnic groups and the dab settles that. Much cleaner. Now cease your
WP:BAITing and and insulting. You can disagree without being so very, very disagreeable.
Montanabw(talk) 03:43, 5 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Support. Everything should be changed, except Pakistani People.--AHLM13talk 10:14, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
I can perhaps understand the opposition to "Turks" below, but what's the rationale for opposing "Pakistanis", which is not ambiguous?
RGloucester —
☎ 20:30, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
SUPPORT the first 4 moves. STRONG OPPOSE the 5th one per the rationale that "Turks" more commonly refers to
Turkic peoples irrespective of the country of citizenship.
Khestwol (
talk) 13:10, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose the first in the strongest possible terms. It is horribly ambiguous since Indians is clearly the common name for what we call here American Indians. That needs to be a dab page.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 20:37, 3 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Support all (except Turks--neutral there). There are far, far, far more Indians from India than from anywhere else. The rest of the moves, besides maybe "Turks"? are easy per
WP:CONCISERed Slash 00:07, 4 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose moves to Indians and Turks. Opposition to "Turks" is per
Ebonelm. As for Indians, the reasons for the move appear to to boil down to three reasons, none of which are good. The first is that it is extremely rare for "Indian" to refer to American Indians unqualified... which might be true in Britain, which has much closer cultural ties to India than to Native American cultures, but it is not true everywhere. The second is that there are more people in one ethnic group than another ethnic group. Both of these seem like obvious examples of systemic bias to me, and I must note that "there are more people in X than in Y" is generally dismissed when the issue at hand is a UK thing vs a US thing. The third is that "Indians" shouldn't be used to describe cultures in the Americas, but this is an attempt to be proscriptive rather than descriptive, which is what Wikipedia is supposed to be. I am Neutral on the remainder.
Egsan Bacon (
talk) 13:39, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This is very unclear. Do you mean that you oppose the present title, which is "Indian people"? If what you say is true, the present title is ambiguous, and should be changed. Why would you support a title that is clearly against your views on this matter?
RGloucester —
☎ 18:11, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
You know, RGloucseter, you have a good point;
People of India would be an even better title, making "Indian people" a dab page.
Montanabw(talk) 02:23, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
That's fine. I'd support such a move. India is one of the most diverse countries in world, so homogenising everyone as an "Indian" feels a bit queer anyway.
RGloucester —
☎ 03:50, 11 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Lots going on and the current RMs just muddy the waters. Suggest perhaps an RfC covering all people groups, to come up with an overall naming convention and to document specific exceptions, I think there will be some.
Andrewa (
talk) 22:17, 9 April 2015 (UTC)reply
support all except NO TURKS: turks is to mean many things. i support moves that nominator makes. i just come from belieze request. good on nominator but she is sometimes misguided. rest are support by sources, easy. as for the indians, why not call those indians red indians, and leave real indians as indians? makes clear.
Togashi Yuuta (
talk) 04:45, 10 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Also, it appears to have been
added to the nomination after all of the above comments were made without that being noted. Is that appropriate?
Cordless Larry (
talk) 16:59, 11 April 2015 (UTC)reply
It's now been removed by
Khestwol. I think that's right as the discussion is too far advanced to start adding different types of move.
Cordless Larry (
talk) 19:04, 11 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Please could those supporting these moves take a look at
Portal:Biography which sets out the various characteristics by which people can be classified. One of these is nationalty and the convention to denote articles relating to those different nationality/ cultural grouping etc is to use the generic suffix 'people' in the same way as those concerning a language are suffixed by the word 'language'. The Category:People by nationality
see here lists all of these so seeking to change the arbitrary selection here is falling foul of the policy set out via the Portal. Any change would need to be discussed and agreed there and not here which is only the talk page for Indian people.
Tmol42 (
talk) 20:25, 11 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Portals cannot "set policy". They have no authority whatsoever, nor are they any kind of policy or guideline. The standard is not to use "people". The standard is to only use people when "people" is required for disambiguation. In these case, it isn't, as with many other articles. Please see the myriad articles linked above that have always followed this convention. Your convention isn't a convention at all. Categories always use the "people" form, as the people form is beneficial for the organisation of categories. However, article titles have never used that form as a "convention".
RGloucester —
☎ 15:30, 12 April 2015 (UTC)reply
Support, When we refer to "American Indians" we call them "American Indians" not just "Indians". Term "Indians" is widely known as "People of India", as Indians have population more than 1.25 billion which is far far more than "American Indians" term "Indians" should be used for "Indian people". --
Vtk1987 (
talk) 13:02, 2 May 2015 (UTC)reply
There is a move discussion in progress on
Talk:Belizean people which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
RMCD bot 12:59, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
This covers similar ground as the RM aboveGregKaye 14:57, 2 April 2015 (UTC)reply
New collage
An excellent and chronological collage of some of the most influential Indians of all time, which includes all ethnic groups such as Bengali, Tamil and Telugu.
From left to right
FIRST row
Chanakya - the main advisor of greatest Indian emperors like Chandragupta, Bindusara, Ashoka and the pioneer of political science and economics in India
Chandragupta Maurya - founder of the Mauryan Empire and the first emperor to unify India into one state
Guru Hargobind - sixth Sikh Guru who instituted the practice of maintaining armed legion of Sikh warrior-saints as protector of oppressed Hindus and Sikhs and declared wars against Muslim great rulers
Akbar the Great - third Mughal emperor, who nearly conquered the entire Indian Scontinent and formed a centralized society in the empire,founded Din-e-Illahi movement
Chand Bibi - Muslim woman warrior, who acted as the Regent of Bijapur, Regent of Ahmednagar Indian Muslim woman warrior.
Nur-ud-din Muhammad Salim - fourth Mughal Emperor, who is reagarded as one of the greatest Mughal Emperors by scholars and the fourth of the Grand Mughals in South Asian historiography
SECOND row
Meera - Hindu saint, devotee of Krishna and poet whose quotes are one of most essentials in Indian history and
Rani Durgavati - A Rajput queen who defended attacks by the Ghaznavids
Akbar II - penultimate Mughal emperor, who is considered to be a pensioner of Britain and he sent the Bengali King Ram Mohan Roy as an ambassador to Britain
Tipu Sultan - Tipu Sultan - scholar, poet and ruler of the Kingdom of Mysore, who deployed the rockets against advances of British forces and their allies in their 1792 and 1799 Siege of Srirangapatna and acknowledged considered a pioneer in the use of rocket artillery
Raja Ram Mohan Roy - Bengali religious leader and Indian ambassador for Britain ,who invented the therm "Hinduism" and introduced the funeral practice of Sati in which the widow was compelled to sacrifice herself on her husband’s funeral pyre
Mahatma Ghandi - the Founding Father of the modern State of India
Indira Ghandi - granddaughter of Mohandas Ghandi, third prime minister of India and prominent member of Indian National Congress Party
THIRD row, left to right:
Rabindranath Tagore - The first non-European to win a Noble and author of India and Bangladesh's national anthems
Swami Vivekananda - Famous Hindu monk, who introduced the Asian philosophies of Yoga and Vedanta to the Western world
C.V. Raman - The first South-Asian to win a Nobel Prize in science, who worked on the scattering of light and for the discovery of the Raman effect
Gurazada Apparao - writer, architect and poet of Andhra Pradesh, who wrote the first Telugu play
Satyajit Ray - one of the greatest filmmakers of the 20th century, who obtained several awards
Satyendra Nath Bose - the famous physicists who is best known for his work on quantum mechanics and he provided the foundation for Bose–Einstein statistics and the theory of the Bose–Einstein condensate
Amartya Sen Nobel Prize winner in Economic Sciences for his contributions to welfare economics and social choice theory and for his interest in the problems of society's poorest members
FOURTH row
Kalpana Chawla - first Asian woman and India-American person in space
Shah Rukh Khan - one of the world's most popular and richest actors, who won various awards
Zakir Naik - scholar, public speaker, medical doctor, who is recognized to be one of the most influential Muslims of the 21st century
Sachin Tendulkar - one of the greatest batsman in the history of cricket as well as the greatest Indian sportsman ever
Asha Bhosle - one of the most recorded singers in the history
Mukesh Ambani - a businessman, recognized as one of the wealthiest persons in the world, who resides in the world's most expensive residential property
Some rather unnotable people have been included in the latest collage in the article. In particular, Zakir Naik and Gurbax Singh Malhi do not belong to any list of the "most influential Indians of all time".
--
Shitikanth (
talk) 19:37, 8 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Hi there. The latest montage is about some of the notable Indians, but not about "the most influential Indians of all time". Nonetheless, despite Diffeomorphicvoodoo's updated montage, you've forget to adjust their names on the infobox. If someone still disagrees with Dr Zakir Naik, Gurbax Singh Malhi and others, feel free to leave a comment here. Abul Kalam and Viswanathan Anand would be unacceptable. Regards.--115ash→(☏) 08:26, 7 September 2015 (UTC)reply
New collage change
|image = File:Greatest Indians.jpg
Edited the new collage and changed Zakir Naik's image to Sardar Patel. Also changed the link under notable indians (Zakir Naik to Sardar Patel).
Serenity18 (
talk) 21:07, 8 July 2015 (UTC)reply
Rearrange of new collage
File:Indian People Greatest.jpg
rearranged to new collage to fit the time period the rows seemed to set.
Edited image Greatest Indians II.jpg and rearranged some pictures. Added Abdul Kalam to the picture as well.Rearranged links in Notable Indians to reflect the changes
Serenity18 (
talk) 21:55, 8 July 2015 (UTC)reply
unprofessional and low quality
There is no need for such huge collage, it does not look professional to me. We need to add proper more detailed things from literature to art to architecture etc
I check pages listed in
Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for
orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of
Indian people's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
From
Rape in India: Kumar, Radha (1993). The History of Doing: An Account of Women's Rights and Feminism in India. Zubaan. p. 128.
ISBN978-8185107769.
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.
AnomieBOT⚡ 18:07, 12 September 2015 (UTC)reply
Shivaji, B. R Ambedkar, Bal Gangadhar Tilak , Lata Mangeshkar
I think Shivaji, B. R Ambedkar, Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Lata Mangeshkar should be included in the images.
Ages ago we had a consensus at
WT:INB to exclude all such image collages. Hence removed all images. §§
Dharmadhyaksha§§ {
Talk /
Edits} 16:32, 13 October 2015 (UTC)reply
Am asking what about this? Why is this posted here? Is someone proposing this? Why the change? Whats the change? Why these people only? We need rationales for whatever is happening here.... If we are changing the images lets get consensus of editors on who should be included. Dont simply spam Wikimedia Commons by uploading all iterations. This collage has many problems btw. §§
Dharmadhyaksha§§ {
Talk /
Edits} 15:01, 19 November 2015 (UTC)reply
This is absolutely rubbish! Why have notable religious leaders been labelled? Where is Chanakya? Where is Ram Mohan Roy?--
78.145.16.86 (
talk) 17:58, 4 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Hello, regarding the Philosophy on Indian people page, see the
Germans,
Italians and
French people page for example has section dedicated to philosophy, covers all importance aspects that shaped their respective culture. We should add it, philosophy has been important part of Indian civilization. We should also furtherer add information about Indian political philosophy in 20th century such as
Gandhian socialism,
Practical idealism,
Integral humanism (India),
Nehruism,
Trusteeship (Gandhism) it will be simple information which covers all basics.
117.192.198.59 (
talk) 20:04, 2 December 2015 (UTC)reply
Keeping in mind that this is a page on "Indian people," not Indian history, the only philosophy that is worth mentioning is the one that is still alive. To my mind
Vedanta is the only one that fits the bill. And, that can be very well covered under Religion. As for political philosophies that you mention, their respective pages are yet in despicable state. How about developing those pages first before we can hope to summarise them here? -
Kautilya3 (
talk) 20:31, 2 December 2015 (UTC)reply
But, Philosophy that we have today has developed over thousands of years, we need to have information on it's development as well as it's influence on indian society. I don't see how only
Vedanta fits the bill since it's part of Astika school of philosophy while many nastika school of philosophy like Sramanic movement has been equally important in shaping Indian philosophical thought. We should consider it, should be simple but informative. Also, regarding political philosophy, i agree those pages need a lot of work but until they are fixed, we can add names of important philosophers of 20th and 21st century.
117.192.198.59 (
talk) 21:02, 2 December 2015 (UTC)reply
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Many of my Indian friends refer to themselves as Desis, yet I see no mention of it under the ethnonym section or the entire article as a matter of fact. Should this be included in some way, alongside Bharata? Or is it too broad of a term since it applies to South Asia in general, including Pakistan and Bangladesh and such?
Word dewd544 (
talk) 22:48, 26 November 2016 (UTC)reply
Edits in Good faith – Armenian DNA
@
Materialscientist: My edits were in good faith, there is no such thing as "Armenian DNA" in any reliable journal genetic study (nature, pnas, oxford 2014-16 study) related to South Asians, Please see main article for
Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia for reliable references and sources.
117.192.212.238 (
talk) 16:59, 15 December 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Kautilya3: Please take note of vandalism by
User:Polyenetian on this page, I have mentioned the problem above. He also seems to be disruptive editing on various pages as well. Thank you.
117.192.212.238 (
talk)
off-topic discussion
You are obviously lying and denying facts now, this is because your are unfortunately incapable of rationalising or understand simple data information, you have also failed to try to even debunk my other statement on the fact that 15% of indian castes have halogroup u. Indians to begin with aren't even a race, they are an artificial nation created by the british raj s so obviously you are going to see major differences in their genetics. I have indicated well researched evidence to support my statements, yet you are trying to discredit and debunk what the genetic researches said without even showing any evidence to support your absurd lies. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Polyenetian (
talk •
contribs) 18:35, 15 December 2016 (UTC)reply
@
User:Polyenetian "they are an artificial nation created by the british rajs" - Very immature of you. Indian people lead united "Quit India" movement for a reason, to create an Independent republic of India. It was not called "Quit Bengal/Maratha/Punjab/Bihar etc", I advise you to educate yourself on this topic.
117.192.212.238 (
talk) 21:47, 15 December 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Polyenetian: Please desist from
personal attacks even if they are to unregistered users. They cannot be treated any differently from registered users.
You say "Indians aren't even a race". Quite correct. But why is that an issue? Who claimed that they were a race? You say "they are an artificial nation created by the british raj". That seems to be your POV. So I won't bother contesting it. But once again, what does this have to do with anything?
The IP objected to your mention of the "Armenian DNA". There is no such thing in reliable sources according to him. I didn't see your response to that. --
Kautilya3 (
talk) 23:39, 15 December 2016 (UTC)reply
He seems to be POV pushing for adding mtdna U and also doesn't seem to know what auDNA, aDNA or admixtures are, going by his "Armenian DNA 1% in Sindhis" edit. The section has been very simplified for basic understanding of admixture between two groups, South Eurasians and West Eurasians, main article linked above explains it much better, instead of copy-pasting random mtdna U as he did.
117.192.212.238 (
talk) 02:23, 16 December 2016 (UTC)reply
@
User:117.192.212.238 Indians aren't a race, which part of this don't you undertsand? You aren't even smart enough to understand that india was never even united in history for you to consider your country an ancient civilization, what are you a punjabi, sindhi, gujarati, or bengali? You are a nation of hundreds of ethnic groups forced together under your british colonial masters, where I come form back in the 50s when my government wanted to recognise ethnic tamils as indians living in my country, the tamils immediately protested against this nonsense, refused to call themselves 'indians' and they even called it the most absurd thing they have ever heard, before the creation of the british raj there are no historic records which prove that you indians were ever unified people and never in historic material suggests that you indians saw yourself as a race. Being a citizen of india you are obviously brianwashed by the indian government to legitimize their rule through the education system, winston churchill and lee kuan yew have even called india out what it is, an artifical state created by the british. India is just a concept. The only reason why your artificial state didn't fall apart and continue existing into the 21st century is because of the majority of you are at least partially united against the muslims as you have the same religion, hinduism.
And timur did , when he entered haryana his army exterminated every hindus en masse, the slaughter was incredible, they killed hindu men, women and children without pity. By the time timur was exhausted from killing all the hindu indians and went back to the steepes, all he left in haryana was a massive cemetery for the millions of hindu skulls killed by timur and gang and completely destroyed cities, towns and villages, every single structure was destroyed by him in haryana. Oddly, you should know what the muslim conquests did to your own people:
"Timur, the robber ruler of Central Asia, invaded India 70 years
before Nanak was born. He crossed river Indus at Attock in Septem-
ber, 1398. He marched along the western bank of Jehlam river and
crossed Chenab near Multan which was reduced to ruins. He turned
north-east and laid waste the towns of Dipalpur and Pakpattan. At
Bhatner, Sirsa, Fatahabad and Hisar no Hindu house was left stand-
ing. Men were massacred or taken prisoners. After using women for
grinding, cooking and raping most of them were beheaded in the
morning before marching. The towns of Samana, Kaithal and Panipat
went all to smash. At Loni near Delhi about one lakh Hindu men
and women of Haryana kept as prisoners were put to death, and a
vast area flowed with their blood. Timur himself admitted that every
soldier in his army killed from 50 to 100 Hindu men, women and
children in Haryana. Passing through Meerut, Muzzaffarnagar,
Hardwar, Saharanpur, and causing wholesale destruction of human
beings, cattle, crops and houses, he fell upon' Jagadhri and completely
destroyed it. Jawalamukhi and Kangra were razed to the ground,
while Jammu was thoroughly sacked and burnt. He crossed river Indus
in March, 1399. 1"
— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Polyenetian (
talk •
contribs) 04:15, 16 December 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Polyenetian: No one on here said Indians are a "race". I'm not going to bother with rest of your rant. I'll leave citations regrading Timur conquests to @
Kautilya3: and Mod
User:RegentsPark to decide.
117.192.215.121 (
talk) 05:23, 16 December 2016 (UTC)reply
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Mauritius is the only country outside India and Nepal where there is a majority of people of Indian Origin. Yet, it is not mentioned in this article ! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
41.136.239.196 (
talk) 19:28, 8 May 2017 (UTC)reply
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There's no such thing as "Indian people", only Indians. The rest of the world calls Indians as Indians. The stupid US Americans didn't know the correct word doesn't mean the world should accommodate, unless the Wikipedia is US American Wikipedia. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
192.68.112.170 (
talk) 01:51, 23 March 2018 (UTC)reply
Go to
Indian. Here, they are disambiguated. First check it out that, even the earliest "Americans" were called "Indians" by Spanish or british or any other foreign people that firstly visited America. And, they were called "Native Americans". (Even that, I [some-what] support your view.)Utkarsh555 (
talk) 11:28, 5 November 2021 (UTC)reply
A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Howcome there is such a large indian diaspira in pakistan as given in factfile.
Srijanx22 (
talk) 17:47, 18 November 2018 (UTC)reply
There are. Please see:
Muhajir people. They migrated from what is now India (and what was then also India) to Pakistan.
Waqqashanafi (
talk) 19:27, 31 January 2021 (UTC)reply
Etymology: Vedic/Mahabharata "Bharat" or Jain Bharata?
@
Dharmadhyaksha: - @
Kautilya3: : Can you guys to go through this and conform, is there any consensus on from which text the name derives from?
User @
Rizhwickh: has been replacing previous sources about Vedic/Kuru Dynasty with Jain Bharata Chakravartin instead, suggesting it was not derived from Vedic/Mahabaratha/Kuru Dynasty, he has been pushing
this edit for a while replacing previous one. He has also removed link to main article
Names of India which covers this topic in detail.
Modern India historians suggest it's derived from Vedic and Kuru Dynasty as it's where earliest mention of Bharata occurs in context of warring tribes.
"In their own earlier works, however, Indians referred to their land as Bharata, which may have been of their greatest ancient warrior or tribal chief, India's longer epic of called Mahabharata "Great Bharata" and is the story of warring tribal cousins, whose struggle for power on the plains of Delhi. Modern India's Republic officially adopted Bharat as it's alternate name, when the Constitution of India was enacted on January 26, 1950."
- An Introduction to India By Stanley A. Wolpert
Currently, I have added both sources, but really needs to be simplified as the page is already too cluttered.
Ilber8000 (
talk) 05:07, 13 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The Wolpert info is good. I suggest we get rid of all mythologies and use only scholarly sources. After all, this is a page on Indian people, not the name. --
Kautilya3 (
talk) 19:29, 13 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The last smartha vicharam witness still lives in Kerala
The Last Smartha Vicharam
The last smarthavicharam held in Kerala was in 1925.This old custom in namboodiri family was happened at Atteri Moothedath Mana, Thaikkattusseri in Thrissur District, Kerala. There were only two victims. One Devasena Antherjanam daughter of Ghrini Namboodiri and his brother Madhavan Namboodiri.
After the excommunication Devasena married from a Namboodiri family, namely Palathole mana, This Namboodiri youth was also a member of one of the expelled families of Kuryedathu thathri incident. They settled at Palapuram in Palakkad District.
Madhavan Namboodiri also left his family and settled at Palappuram. He married a warasiar and given birth of two children.
The suspense is that, son of Madhavan Namboodiri is still living in a place called Perumbillisseri at Thrissur District. He is now in his 99. Narayanan Namboodiri son of Madhavan Namboodiri had laid pindam and bali for his living father. He is the only living witness of this pragmatic custom ones prevailed in Namboodiri's society in Kerala.
Atterimoothedam (
talk) 08:49, 21 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Removing Pakistan from "Regions with significant populations" section
While it is true that 2 million people in Pakistan were born in India, it should be noted that these folks were born before the Partition, the event which led to the creation of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the Republic of India. This means that after they migrated to Pakistan, they claimed the Pakistani identity and no longer identified with the current Republic of India. In fact, Indian migrants to Pakistan are considered a distinct ethnic group, a group called "Muhajirs". They are explicitly known as Pakistanis, not Indians. Therefore, they should not be considered Indians as per this article.
New Zealand
Information is outdated. There are 250,000-350,000 New Zealanders of Indian descent, not 155,000. --
222.154.95.233 (
talk) 22:10, 16 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Remove flags
In the infobox, I am in favour of removing flag-icons of the nations, as per
MOS:INFOBOXFLAG.
Why are these East African countries mentioned when they have the largest Indian population in the region and second in Africa after South Africa
196.249.97.112 (
talk) 14:40, 30 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Outdated
the population of indians in the usa is now at 4.5 million, surpassing the uae, and this article still uses data from a census from 2011?? no one feels like fixing it?? bruh
Vktrvk (
talk) 13:19, 4 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Unsourced synonym at start of article itself
"Bharatiya people" is not an English language synonym for citizens and nationals of India.
The closest relation is the term "Bharatiya" being a Hindi language synonym for India therefore the unsourced "Bharatiya people" should be removed. Even a quick Google search doesn't throw up any credible results.
112.196.153.237 (
talk) 15:54, 9 May 2023 (UTC)reply