Talk:Hawaii

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Former good article nomineeHawaii was a Geography and places good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 21, 2006 Featured article candidateNot promoted
September 7, 2010 Good article nomineeNot listed
May 23, 2015 Peer reviewReviewed
Current status: Former good article nominee


For style guide information, see Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Hawaii-related articles.

Removal of Citation Needed Span

@ Telsho: Hello- can you explain your removal of the citation needed span on this page? Wikipedia policy does not allow unsourced information to remain both unsourced and written with Wikipedia's voice. Thanks. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:15, 21 September 2020 (UTC) (modified)

It's pretty much common knowledge, you don't need a source for that. Please read WP:CITENEED. Telsho ( talk) 11:24, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Telsho: I'm sorry, but I don't agree. What's the common knowledge that doesn't need citation? Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:26, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
In regards to the U.S. Constitution, the text pretty much said there has been no precedent, and there isn't. How exactly are you going to acquire citations for something that doesn't exist? In the second sentence, one only has to access the Constitution of Massachusetts, Province of Massachusetts Bay, Commonwealth of Massachusetts, Territory of Arkansaw and State of Arkansas articles to confirm its accuracy. You don't need secondary sources for chronological history. Telsho ( talk) 11:34, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Telsho: Let me explain how I see what you said. "How exactly are you going to acquire citations for something that doesn't exist?" In my mind, in this sentence, you are directly saying that you put an unsourcable claim that was in a 'citation needed span' back into the voice of Wikipedia. That's not what Wikipedia is for. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:37, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
As I've reiterated, adding a citation needed tag for information that doesn't exist wouldn't make any sense. The U.S. Constitution made no mention that a states name can be changed. Why would you need a source for that? If one decides to be really pedantic, the source is the constitution itself. Telsho ( talk) 11:51, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Telsho: "Why would you need a source for that?" Wikipedia is based on secondary sources, not bald speculation. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:55, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
You're cherry-picking my words. I'm aware of what Wikipedia is about, Geographyinitiative. But you're going to wait a very long time before someone actually has a secondary source for that, if ever. Telsho ( talk) 12:00, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Telsho: In my mind, you have just proven my point. Why not restore the 'citation needed span' then? Either 1) source the claim, 2) remove the material, or 3) put it in a 'citation needed' tag. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 12:02, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
The point is there wouldn't be any such secondary source. You could assume that your point was proven in your mind but facts precede opinions on Wikipedia. I don't agree on restoring the tag but you're more than welcome to wait or ask for a third opinion. Telsho ( talk) 12:09, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
@ Telsho: "All content must be verifiable. The burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who adds or restores material, and it is satisfied by providing an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the contribution." Wikipedia:UNSOURCED I have listed this discussion on the third opinion page as you requested. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 12:13, 21 September 2020 (UTC) (modified)
Concur with User:Geographyinitiative on this one. The question "How exactly are you going to acquire citations for something that doesn't exist" says it all. If something doesn't exist, then Wikipedia isn't the place to talk about it. That's called original research and that's a violation of WP:NOR. -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 16:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
If that's the case, I would suggest it's for the best to remove that paragraph on the article entirely. Thoughts @ Geographyinitiative:? Telsho ( talk) 17:47, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I wouldn't think it should be that hard to find sourced examples substantiating the first sentence (starting with "In contrast"). The rest of the paragraph (starting with "No precedent") is likely to be harder (along the lines of trying to prove a negative), and I would oppose including this info without sources. In any case, though, I don't believe there is any need to talk here at all about Massachusetts or Arkansas having had their names changed; it simply isn't relevant to Hawaii IMO. As for the "common knowledge" exception to WP:NOR and WP:V, there is an informational page on this issue ( WP:CK) — not a binding policy in and of itself, but intended as a useful guide to deciding when this sort of argument is OK and when it is not. —  Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 18:28, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Telsho ( talk) 19:21, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Partial disagreement with your change — I think the "No precedent" sentence should be removed too, because it's unsourced, and in any event not really relevant IMO (an opinion which I might possibly change depending on whatever a source or sources might say). —  Rich wales (no relation to Jimbo) 20:43, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
I have come to the conclusion that the fact that was restored here is not actually demonstrated. I originally thought it was "probably true", but now I'm thinking that I just don't know for sure. Who knows? Maybe one of the colonies changed its name slightly- a spelling or something- in a way that we don't really pay attention to these days. Maybe a state had multiple spellings for its name and settled on one later. I really can't be 100% certain that the fact is true and since it is not sourced, I think it really can't be sustained, even in the citation needed box. Seems like original research if there is no source given. If there's a source, then that's different of course. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 12:01, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 October 2020

hawaii isn't the only american state outside of the country north america, alaska is also a state outside of america, so the information The only US state outside of the country is entirely false Kapolata ( talk) 16:37, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:42 24 October 2020 (UTC)
@ Kapolata: You have misquoted the article. The exact quote is It is the only U.S. state located outside North America. I am a former kamaʻāina (resident) of Hawaiʻi. I can assure you from many five-hour plane rides from the closest mainland airports that Hawaiʻi is not part of the North American continent. Alaska, however, seems firmly attached to the North American continent. Peaceray ( talk) 18:39, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:58, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2021

Remove the sentence: “Hawaii is also one of a handful of U.S. states to have once been an independent nation.[11]” because it is not supported by the listed source and because it is not true considering all of the United States have at one point been part of other independent nations of Native Americans. Febufaerie23 ( talk) 02:31, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Not done Prominent examples are the Republic of Hawaii, the Republic of California, the Republic of Texas, and the Republic of Vermont were independent nations that became states. Two of them, Hawaii & Vermont, had borders nearly identical to the present day. All four carried their identities from being independent nations into statehood. Any other republic that became part of a state or divided into states essentially lost their idenity.
I have added a citation that specifically places Hawaii among the independent republics that became a state. Peaceray ( talk) 06:12, 17 January 2021 (UTC)