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Flags of the U.S. states and territories article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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 | On 13 May 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to List of flags of the U.S. states and territories. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
@ Reywas92: I don't agree with your revert. To a casual reader, your version looks like a hundred links to the article Flag - see WP:EASTEREGG. Readers shouldn't have to hover over a link to see where it goes - and that's even tougher on mobile where you have to long-press the link. A simple, non piped link to Flag of Some State makes it very clear what the readers will get if they click. This article is "Flags of the U.S. states and territories" (not List of states and territories of the United States) so the individual flag articles are the most important links; they should be prominent and hard to miss. Meanwhile, the top-level articles on the states themselves are low-value links; they're common words readers will be familiar with per WP:OVERLINK, and a bunch of irrelevant links makes it harder to find the relevant links. In the unlikely scenario of someone genuinely wanting a link to the top-level Michigan article, they'll find it in the first paragraph of Flag of Michigan. I really don't see what the value add for the state links is here. SnowFire ( talk) 06:43, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Add design shown at Flag_of_Maryland#Previous_design to Flags_of_the_U.S._states_and_territories#Former_state_flags ? 97.94.200.48 ( talk) 13:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
The flag of the state of Utah is not the most recent state flag to be adopted. The current flag of the state of New York was, for example, more recently adopted (2020).
VectorEyes ( talk) 05:52, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, state flags originate with the American Civil War, when secessionist Southern Democrat (an ideology which, along with the rest of that time's Democratic party, held the primacy of states as sovereign entities over the federal government) states chose the flags to represent their new nations in confederacy. The article glosses over that and attributes State flags to the World's fair, which appears to be true of several states, but apparently not any in the former CSA. There seems to be movement in other articles which imply that state flags, like the New York State Seal article (there is no state flag article), originate with state seals. Obviously, not the case. Regardless of the reason for all this, it should be made clear that the first state flags were created for the CSA's member states. -- IronMaidenRocks ( talk) 06:40, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:43, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:24, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
The US state flag map has not been updated to include the current Mississippi flag. -- Wikidid.do ( talk) 00:02, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
The page List of flags of the United States#Uninhabited territory flags claims that flags for Johnston Atoll, Midway Atoll, Navassa Island, and Wake Island are in use, while this page had all of the flags but Midway. All of them are unofficial, and though some may have more credibility than others, I don't see why Midway is less so than others. From https://nava.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/NAVANews_2000_vol33no1.pdf, it has been "officially introduced on the atoll", while the flags for Howland Island, Navassa Island, Kingman Reef, and Palmyra Atoll are unsourced. Looking into it, from https://nava.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/NAVANews_2010_no206.pdf, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service "agreed to allow his flag torepresent the island on an unofficial basis", and from https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/Flags/um-kngmn.html, the flags for Kingman Reef and Howland Island (the flag for which also represents Baker Island and Jarvis Island) have no official support, though I'd still say they meet the criteria for being unofficial flags. The Palmyra Atoll flag has a much longer history but could use https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/um-plmyr.html as a source. Why does the flag for Midway not qualify for this page? Geobica ( talk) 23:21, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
- I removed Kingman, Navassa, Palmyra, Midway, and Baker/Howland/Jarvis about a year ago but I guess I missed when they were re-added. I have re-removed them as just made up with no evidence of legitimate usage. State flags have been officially adopted by law. There can certainly be legitimate usage of flags even if they haven't been legally adopted: Those of Johnston and Wake have actually been used somewhat regularly by actual people in these locations, but the others were just made up by random people who wanted a flag. They have not been used in any widespread manner, and the crwflags site is not a
WP:RS. This is purely private correspondence without publication by reliable sources and there is no evidence these designs fly in those locations – the Kingman design has never even been made with actual fabric! Just because FWS didn't forbid a random person from putting his own made-up design on his website doesn't mean the flag is in use or that we should give it any legitimacy. Specifically for Midway, "Steve Dryden decid[ing] that maybe they should" have a flag is not the basis for inclusion in the encyclopedia.
Reywas92
Talk 00:39, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
- Midway is quite well-attested; considerably better than Kingman and Baker/Howland/Jarvis (with Palmyra having a seemingly compelling backstory that I've been no more able to verify than you). In particular, it has seen use in a semi-official capacity (by the National Park Service and Fish and Wildlife Service) when they were flown at the USS Arizona in an official commemoration of the Pearl Harbor attacks in 2001. Steve Dryden's affiliation with the FWS when he produced the Midway Island flag, and Harry Wheeler's affiliation with the National Park Service, is relevant here; Midway Island is adminstered by the FWS with the NPS overseeing the National Memorial there. See right column on page three here: [1] If that link breaks, here [2], volume 33 no. 1. Also note that a clear consensus exists on what the flag for Midway is (assuming one exists) - again, unlike Kingman, etc. Google "Midway Island" and you'll see numerous results for these flags.
- Open to discussing this further.
Jbt89 (
talk) 04:06, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- On second thought I've added back Palmyra too. Harry Wheeler wrote a column in NAVA News volume 208 stating that the design originates with GIs stationed on the island in the 1940s and approved by the Nature Conservancy and FWS (the current administrators of the island) in the early 2000s. Wheeler is an NPS employee working at Pearl Harbor; if anyone would know the details of US Army activites in the Pacific Islands during WWII it is the National Park Service at Pearl Harbor. I still have mixed feelings on Navassa Island (given that it's likely administered by a different branch of the FWS than was consulted for that flag's design) but would be open to re-adding it at a later date. I still see no evidence for any meaningful adoption of flags for Jarvis / Baker / Howland.
Jbt89 (
talk) 06:11, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- Just because he's an NPS employee does not mean he has any authority to determine what the flag is. The staff at Nature Conservancy allowing him to use the flag at his USS Arizona event does not mean it was actually adopted for the island in a capacity that it belongs in this article. Is the flag actually flown there by island managers today?
This site (not a reliable one suitable for Wikipedia though) just says it was reconstructed from a single photograph, which soldiers might have made up to represent the island, whose actual colors were unknown, and which never had any official or unofficial acceptance. So if you can find something from TNC or FWS that actually includes this flag or showing that it's used in some formal way – and not that it was merely permitted to be used at a single event in Hawaii – then it can be here, otherwise it's not appropriate to have.
Reywas92
Talk 15:24, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- It seems like we've examined the same evidence and reached opposite conclusions about whether the flags used to represent the uninhabited islands of Midway and Palmyra at a 2001 National Park Service event should be included here. At least two other people have also felt that Midway and Palmyra ought to be included in the encyclopedia so I don't think I'm totally coming from left field in disagreeing with you on this point but I don't want an endless cycle of reverting each other's edits either. Want to solicit a WP:3O for this? I don't see a better resolution. Jbt89 ( talk) 17:20, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- Just because he's an NPS employee does not mean he has any authority to determine what the flag is. The staff at Nature Conservancy allowing him to use the flag at his USS Arizona event does not mean it was actually adopted for the island in a capacity that it belongs in this article. Is the flag actually flown there by island managers today?
This site (not a reliable one suitable for Wikipedia though) just says it was reconstructed from a single photograph, which soldiers might have made up to represent the island, whose actual colors were unknown, and which never had any official or unofficial acceptance. So if you can find something from TNC or FWS that actually includes this flag or showing that it's used in some formal way – and not that it was merely permitted to be used at a single event in Hawaii – then it can be here, otherwise it's not appropriate to have.
Reywas92
Talk 15:24, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- Nope, this flag was made up for this USS Arizona event, and that does not give it any status. The guy running it saw there were no flags for these territories then, so he called up the folks working there to just make one up. Just because he was a FWS employee does NOT mean there is any adoption by the FWS or even that office itself, with continued use in any official or unofficial capacity. Then the guy who ran the Arizona event wrote the NAVA articles. Without independent coverage showing that the flag is actually in use or recognized, it doesn't have a place here. Reywas92 Talk 15:14, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- On second thought I've added back Palmyra too. Harry Wheeler wrote a column in NAVA News volume 208 stating that the design originates with GIs stationed on the island in the 1940s and approved by the Nature Conservancy and FWS (the current administrators of the island) in the early 2000s. Wheeler is an NPS employee working at Pearl Harbor; if anyone would know the details of US Army activites in the Pacific Islands during WWII it is the National Park Service at Pearl Harbor. I still have mixed feelings on Navassa Island (given that it's likely administered by a different branch of the FWS than was consulted for that flag's design) but would be open to re-adding it at a later date. I still see no evidence for any meaningful adoption of flags for Jarvis / Baker / Howland.
Jbt89 (
talk) 06:11, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- Open to discussing this further.
Jbt89 (
talk) 04:06, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
References
- ^ https://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/622278/documents/NAVANews_2000_vol33no1_1321153324.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIA6MYUE6DNNNCCDT4J&Expires=1640749033&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DNAVANews_2000_vol33no1.pdf&Signature=8PbO2vvdpMjXvk1Iig85LIowGVE%3D
- ^ https://nava.org/nava-news-2000s
I'm trying to use these SVG files in a web page directly (not using `<img>` tags) and scaling them to fit the container width (preserving aspect ratio). This involves removing the `width` and `height` attributes (if specified), setting `width="100%"`, and if the `viewBox` attribute is missing, setting it to `0 0 {oldWidth} {oldHeight}`. For example, for Rhode Island, I change `<svg height="580" width="660">` to `<svg width="100%" viewBox="0 0 660 580">`.
This works for most flags, but there are a few states where something in the metrics is "off," causing portions of the flags to be missing or scaled incorrectly:
- Arkansas: missing two stars
- Tennessee: one huge star, others obscured or rotated out of view
- Ohio: just a field of white
- Rhode Island: only the anchor and banner showing and the star atop the anchor. Extra yellow border on top, right, and bottom.
How is the US State flags section organized? It isn't alphabetically, it doesn't appear to be by date of origin. What am I missing here? It appears to me that it's just randomly ordered ... could that be fixed? Could it be sorted by some system that would be helpful to readers, or at least make sense? Dbrain64 ( talk) 14:07, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
- It's order of statehood. You're welcome to change to alphabetical. Reywas92 Talk 15:06, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – Material Works 16:11, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
Flags of the U.S. states and territories → List of flags of the U.S. states and territories – This works make the list easier to search for and consistent with other lists. Aaron Liu ( talk) 14:37, 13 May 2023 (UTC)— Relisting. >>> Extorc. talk 18:15, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:CONCISE, since the current name would just redirect back here, but the proposed name could be a redirect. Station1 ( talk) 06:36, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose per Station1, it's not even a list really. It's a gallery practically. -- Killuminator ( talk) 11:54, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
MAYBE worth mentioning now in the article, but if not, someone should set your calendar to check the status.
Source : [1] https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/12/19/new-minnesota-flag-final-design Vollink ( talk) 18:50, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Looks like the hero image is a .png rather than an .svg, and I can't seem to find an .svg version of the new map. Would be good if we could adapt this one. Looks like @ lumap15 was the first to upload a map including territories, maybe they'd have the .svg sources they used to make the .png? TheTaraStark ( talk) 16:53, 10 March 2024 (UTC)