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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 January 2019 and 30 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kitaferd.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 21:28, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Do non-Americans call these policies "fiscal conservatism", or is that an American phrase? If it's an international ideology, can we get some help in making this page less Ameri-centric? Ryan McDaniel 21:50, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I restored this article from a redirect since since there is some material from Fiscal Conservatism(Free Market Conservatism) that could be moved here. I removed the long list of supposed fiscal conservatives since it was unencyclopedic and not clearly defined.
If somebody thinks this should still be a redirect, that's fine too, but it looks like plenty could be written about the subject. Wmahan . 19:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Is there actually any page describing left wing economic ideology? Since "economic liberalism" is actually a policy endorsed by conservatives, I expected to get an article describing liberal economic ideology when I searched "economic conservatism", but was instead redirected to this page, which is actually more conservative doctrine. If there is such a page (describing liberal economics), please contact me, and if not, one certainly needs to be written. ~ Ludo716
I believe economics of the American center left is social democracy which is economic liberalism and right of socialism but includes more statist policies such as increasing regulation more so than conservative economic liberals. Also, you can describe the economics as social democrat though they have different histories with social democrats being at one point socialist and communists before reforming to social capitalism or welfare capitalism as its called. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.240.199.194 ( talk) 11:37, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Socialism would be the traditional left-wing economic position, and is the appropriate counterpart to economic liberalism in Europe. Economic progressivism would be the term for the liberal position in America, which suggests a more moderate stance than socialism does; I would contrast economic progressivism with economic conservatism, as that is the American term for economic liberalism. (Confused yet?)Economic progrssivism does have its own article, although it is short.
Fiscal conservatism would be opposed to prodigality, which doesn't doesn't describe any one's stated position, as far as I know, but is regularly used to demonize opponents (often, ironically enough, with the phrase "tax and spend.")
- Andrew R. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.108.128.133 ( talk) 18:34, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
The traditonal left-wing economic positition is raising taxes to raise public spending, not known as prodigality to anyone who supports it, as it is not a neutral term. An example of this is Healthcare, such as in the United Kingdom, where Universal Healthcare (NHS) was a policy brought in by Labour and is supported by the National Insurance tax. Socialism is a very broad term to apply as a counterpart of fiscal conservativism, because it implies a supposed 'distribution of the means of production' which doesn't necessarily represent short term fiscal policy on the side of Socialist parties. Aquataris ( talk) 08:49, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
What's this got to do with fiscal conservatism at all? In fact, the whole article is basically "Economic History of the United States". -- Aioth 07:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed this section. It does nothing to define or give history on the article's topic. It is merely a partisan take on the last two presidents on this issue. Here's the copy I deleted: The Clinton Administration created a fairly sizable budget surplus by the end of the 1990s. In 2000, George W. Bush ran for President on a platform of limiting the scope of government and cutting taxes, while still maintaining the surplus. However, during his time in office, President Bush has drastically increased federal spending while continuing to cut taxes. A growing number of Republicans have grown exasperated with the tremendous deficit growth that has taken place in recent years. Some have argued that Bush's apathy towards creating a balanced budget and his willingness to increase spending on Medicare and other social programs betray conservative principles. Democrats have criticized Bush for excessive spending also, though they tend to focus more on the Iraq War and other costly military expenditures, and on tax cuts that reduce federal revenues and increase the deficit. --PFR 19:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
The information about tax revenues increasing is based on partisan sources and sources within the Reagan administration. It is in conflict with the information in Reagonomics which presents a more balanced and correct picture based on actual evidence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiviedit ( talk • contribs) 19:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
A previous version has been restored to reflect the same - Wikiviedit 27 May 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiviedit ( talk • contribs) 19:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Its common knowlege that tax revenue increased under Reagan. Even the liberal Media Matters admits it. The big question is would revenue have increased further had taxes not been cut.
From 1981 to 1988, revenues in current dollars increased from $599.3 billion to $909.3 billion.-- Media Matters [1]
Here we have statistics that show GDP Growth under Reagan [2] [3]
Your sources are just as biased a mine. Mine have real statistics as well. But they all show that tax revenue DID increase under Reagan. Don't fool yourself into thinking some how your evidence could not just be a product of someone elses imagination as well. There are partisan sources Perhaps YOU should look at the actual evidence and keep your negative bias to yourself.
P.S. if your so confident about your info. you should go have a field day on the Reaganomics page.-- Lucky Mitch ( talk) 03:29, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
You should look at tax revenues as a proportion of GDP not absolute numbers which always increase. Anyways, I am not American and I have no interest in taking partisan positions on American politics. - Wikiviedit —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiviedit ( talk • contribs) 18:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
GDP growth went up as the US recovered from recession. However, tax revenues as a proportion of GDP went down according to official statistics put out by the US government. The sources you give are really not reliable, non-partisan sources. A fundamental problem with most of your sources is they quote income tax revenue plus payroll tax. Payroll tax was increased by the Reagan administration and hence it is no surprise that total income tax plus payroll tax revenue went up. Please look at income tax revenue only. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiviedit ( talk • contribs) 18:56, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Excuse me for butting in, but is there some reason why the man who set the record for biggest fiscal deficits, Ronald Reagan, is mentioned on this page is something resembling a positive tone? After all, this isn't a page about tax cuts, right? And, a fiscal conservative first and foremost hates big imbalances (deficit or surplus), right? So why in the world is there a section on Reagan, but not on the only president in recent years to actually reverse the rot, Mr William Jefferson Clinton? Yes, I'm a Democrat. DOR (HK) ( talk) 09:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, one is surprised to see Reagan mentioned here as a fiscal conservative. In fact, Clinton would be considered a fiscal conservative due to his focus on reducing the fiscal deficit. Cutting taxes funded by borrowing is not fiscal conservatism. ( 140.254.78.114 ( talk)) —Preceding comment was added at 20:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone considered putting up a list of famous fiscal conservatives on this page? -- 165.123.227.188 ( talk) 06:03, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
How is trickle-down not mentioned in any of this??
"Fiscal conservatives" and "economic conservatives" or "free market conservatives" are not the same thing. "Fiscal conservatism" refers to balancing budgets and nothing more. It makes very little sense to speak of a philosophy or historical tradition of "fiscal conservatism." "Fiscal conservatism" is a lot more tactical or small-scale a thing than that. Until you get it right, best shut up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.10.198.109 ( talk) 19:55, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Recommend moving to Fiscal conservativism in North America so a non-North American centric article can flourish. North American politics can be connected with summarization and a "more on topic" link -- Guroadrunner ( talk) 12:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
I just did some editing on the "Bush/Obama" section. Please, try not to use weasel words, or editorialize. WP:WORDS and all that. I also left some citation needed peppered all over that section. I am in no way trying to suggest that Obama hasn't increased the deficit; I just want someone to add a citation or two when they say it. WP:V, don'tchaknow. Anyway, if you're editing something political and current, step back, take a deep breath, look for neutral sources, and if you have a friend on the other side of the political aisle, have them collaborate with you. No partisan stuff, pleaseandthx. Will ( talk) 00:51, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Fiscal conservatives don't necessarily believe in free trade. Please change it, as someone like Ron Paul would be an example to the contrary. 184.59.7.32 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:28, 2 December 2010 (UTC).
I realise some have already brought this up above, but it's still odd to see the Reagan administration described as 'fiscal conservative', even rhetorically. Under Reagan, taxes were cut and spending increased, leading to an increase in the deficit: surely that's the precise opposite of fiscal conservatism, whatever that's called? Robofish ( talk) 17:28, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
For some strange reason the introductory sentence is sourced to public policy book on corrections. Can we find a better source for this. I expect that there may be certain contextual aspects of prisons and jails which do not generalize to society at large. aprock ( talk) 21:05, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
I agree that fiscal conservatism is primarily about a government living within its means and not leaving a burden of debt but things such as cutting taxes to grow the economy and privatizing to cut costs are the means to fiscal conservatism so I believe those fit under fiscal conservatism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.240.199.194 ( talk) 11:32, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I see no difference between fiscal conservatism and classical liberalism from what is in the intro. It looks like it is just a different term to describe classical liberalism. In the U.S. and particularly in the Republican Party, what is considered economic "conservatism" is conservative support of classical liberal economic policy in opposition to the social liberalism of the Democratic Party). If it is the same as classical liberalism, then this article should be made a redirect to classical liberalism-- R-41 ( talk) 01:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
A user has reverted my removal of the unsourced Bush commentary. Based on the copy in the edit, it looks like it's personal observation, synth/OR. Are there any sources which put Bush's record in the context of fiscal conservatism in general which can be used here? aprock ( talk) 17:57, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
The final sentence of the quoted paragraph doesn't seem to fit in with the heading, "George W. Bush Era" and it seems to me to be nothing more than a political attack upon Obama. Furthermore it seems to be outright fallacious by insinuating that it was Obama himself who was wholly responsible for increasing the debt. Finally, the source number 15 that is used to support this statement presents just a general website with no information relating to the claim of Obama increasing debt by "more than $5 trillion."
Here is the paragraph I am concerned about: "The Bush administration accounted for the second largest increase of the Federal debt of any other president in United States history. In fact, the increase of the Federal debt during Bush's tenure was almost as much as the entire debt accumulated during the previous 200+ years, totaling around $5 trillion. However, since taking office, President Barack Obama has increased the Federal debt by more than $5 trillion."
marsden4 ( talk) 10:35, 17 September 2012 (GMT)
I deleted the appendage at the end of the section on the Clinton era in which the article questioned the veracity of the Clinton budget surplus claims. The author cited several sources (6, I believe) but only two were even active links: one to an unpublished, unreviewed website, and one to a passing reference to the Clinton surplus claims in a WSJ editorial piece. Upon a brief internet search, the claims set forth in the deleted sentences are specifically refuted here: http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/. Chad.newsome ( talk) 09:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Again, this is about paying down the debt. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE. There was a surplus. That is a fact. You are trying to negate that with extraneous discussion that shows bias. Please stop wasting time on this point. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chad.newsome ( talk • contribs) 07:15, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
Wouldn't Jimmy Carter be considered a fiscal conservative? I may be wrong on this but I heard he decreased the deficit, deregulated and/or privatized railroads, nuclear plants, home brewery, airlines, trucking, oil, and telecommunications, reduced the top tax rate on capital gains, actively sought to rid the federal government of waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement, and continued opening up trade with China. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.35.187.201 ( talk) 21:28, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
The article on Jimmy Carter already covers his deregulation efforts:
"In 1977, Carter appointed Alfred E. Kahn, a professor of economics at Cornell University, to be chair of the Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB). He was part of a push for deregulation of the industry, supported by leading economists, leading 'think tanks' in Washington, a civil society coalition advocating the reform (patterned on a coalition earlier developed for the truck-and-rail-reform efforts), the head of the regulatory agency, Senate leadership, the Carter administration, and even some in the airline industry. This coalition swiftly gained legislative results in 1978.
The Airline Deregulation Act (Pub.L. 95–504 ) was signed into law by President Carter on October 24, 1978. The main purpose of the act was to remove government control over fares, routes and market entry (of new airlines) from commercial aviation. The Civil Aeronautics Board's powers of regulation were to be phased out, eventually allowing market forces to determine routes and fares. The Act did not remove or diminish the FAA's regulatory powers over all aspects of airline safety.
In 1979, Carter deregulated the American beer industry by making it legal to sell malt, hops, and yeast to American home brewers for the first time since the effective 1920 beginning of Prohibition in the United States. This Carter deregulation led to an increase in home brewing over the 1980s and 1990s that by the 2000s had developed into a strong craft microbrew culture in the United States, with 3,418 micro breweries, brewpubs, and regional craft breweries in the United States by the end of 2014."
If by deficit you mean the National debt of the United States, the article mentions that Carter was continuing efforts by Richard Nixon. "Public debt as a percentage of GDP fell rapidly in the post-World War II period, and reached a low in 1974 under Richard Nixon. Debt as a share of GDP has consistently increased since then, except under Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Public debt rose during the 1980s, as Ronald Reagan cut tax rates and increased military spending."
The numbers of "Public debt as % of GDP" are indicative of the process:
Awesome! So would you object if I copy-pasted that into the /info/en/?search=Fiscal_conservatism article? (or if somebody else please did since I'm unfamiliar with wiki) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.35.187.201 ( talk) 01:57, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
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Its sad how many issues are with this page. You can multiple people with different bias have all made offhand edits. It's hard to even read because you can tell chunks have been cut out or added and don't flow with what's been previously written.
This page needs to be edited hard and erase the bias.