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This article should be improved more. Therefor I put an On Hold tag on it.
During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of October 4, 2007 compares against the six good article criteria:
Ali's descendants by Fatimah are known as sharifs, syeds or sayyids. These are honorific titles in Arabic, sharif meaning 'noble' and sayed/sayid meaning 'lord' or 'sir'. As Muhammad's only descendants, they are respected by both Sunni and Shi'a, though the Shi'as place much more emphasis and value on the distinction. The Idrisid and Fatimid dynasties are descended from Ali and many Muslim notables claim to be descendents of Muhammad via his daughter Fatimah and Imam Ali. The late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and Ali Khamenei, supreme leaders of Iran, Muammar al-Gaddafi president of Libya, Zine El Abidine Ben Ali president of Tunis, The Hashemite royal families of Jordan and Iraq, the Alaouite royal family of Morocco, the Husseini family of Lebanon, and the Aga Khans of the Ismaili community claim direct descent from Muhammad through Ali and Fatimah. Sa.vakilian
-- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 10:18, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Sa.vakilian asked me to comment and I have a few suggestions.
The most serious disputes between the pair arose when the Banū ām b. īra of the Ḳ suggested to ʿAlī that he should marry one of their women. ʿAlī did not reject the proposal, but Muḥammad, when some of the tribe came to sound him on the matter, came to the defence of his daughter. “ Fāṭima ” , he said, “ is a part of me (baḍʿa minnī) and whoever offends her offends me ” (al-Balā urī, Ansāb, i, 403; ī, ii, 319, etc.) or “ what angers her angers me also ” (this ḥadī has many variants which, however, do not much change the meaning).
Hope this is of some assistance. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 01:24, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
This article doesn't represent Shia viewpoint correctly. As a reviewer I shouldn't do a major edit but I can introduce better sources in this case.-- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 10:33, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
You can find some reliable source in al-islam.org. Some of them like speech of Hamid Algar is academic. There is a Sunni source which I found in google book [1]. If these sources weren't suitable then we could could use Persian sources.-- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 17:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
As a shia, I too believe that this article doesn't represent Shia viewpoint correctly. I have never heard, nore have I read anything that shows Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Fatimah have had disputes with each other! Their lives and their relationship are our model! I think this part of the article was not correct and should be edited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marzieh.parhizkar ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
It is true that Shia uphold the marriage of Ali and Fatima to be an exemplary relationship of a husband and wife, and worthy of emulation - and do not agree with any Sunni assertions to the contrary. I also agree that al-islam.org is a good place to find the Shia viewpoint. It is a repository of well known Shia reference books, and is quite comprehensive and well respected. User:YAM
Sa.vakilian, with all due respect, I think there is a conflict of interest in yourself reviewing this article for GA. It would be better (as you are doing) for you to be an involved editor and for us to work to address your concerns. I have no problems in withdrawing my GA nomination (I had assumed all interested parties had had their say). Let me know if you agree. → AA ( talk) — 17:30, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I didn't notice until I fixed a red link yesterday that the article was semi-protected as "infinite" by User:BrownHairedGirl back in August. I think the protection needs removing and then see if the article is stable. I don't know exactly how the reviewers look at the articles but if it was me I would question why the article was protected. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:04, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Although the article has improved during last week but it hasn't reached GA criteria. I want to declare failing if you agree.-- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 18:09, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Fatima is love so, so much and i think everyone should love her all the time I persanally think Fatima was the best daghters of the prophrer a am not saying i hate zaynab, ruqayyah and umm kulthoom i love them to but i love fatima the most out of them all i her storie i inspire the fact that ali was cosen to marrie fatima i think that she erned to get such a amazing husband she was so lucky an why am i saying was i should be saying she is still lucky because she is in jannah righ know. and thet is it for know so thankyou for reading my oppinion thankyou again for reading my oppinion on FATIMA.
THANKYOU I LOVE YOU فاتمه
your sincerly IQRA AMIN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.214.24.90 ( talk) 13:56, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Faiz could you specify the reason to revert the addition of fatima number among the children of prophet Mohammed-- Omer123hussain ( talk) 10:53, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Recently an editor has mass tagged long standing refs and phrases. Majority of the refs being tagged are reliable e.g. Encyclopaedia of Islam, Encyclopedia Iranica, USC-MSA-BIO. Also few tags were put with Dec'10 date probabaly result of copy n paste. Also various sentences phrases and words were added without nay references. For now I have reverted the edits.-- Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider t c s 09:24, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
no response is given to previous query, therfore reverting the previous edits and asking for direct reference.
Suggesting for the removal of the section Fatima In Quran as its all frictional and personal believe, not from any reliable source, where as quran does not hold any of the Mohammed's household name in particular.
Most of the references are given but generalized to Muslims where as its a particular section believe among muslims not all muslims.
related to mass tagging, i hope its allowed by WP, if not please give the reference. -- Omer123hussain ( talk) 09:40, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Remove the tag Ahlalkisa as already Islam is taged on the article. Omer123hussain ( talk) 03:29, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
removed title from the name,asking for the reference (as provided reference is of WP article) -- Omer123hussain ( talk) 17:54, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
any way, what is/you mean of putting the case??? is that you practiced for your edits or one should do for his edits?? if that so, plz give the references.??? any way while i made the edit i placed on the talk page, and even gave the brief reply while editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omer123hussain ( talk • contribs) 05:56, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
any way, what is/you mean of putting the case??? is that you practiced for your edits or one should do for his edits?? if that so, plz give the references.??? any way while i made the edit i placed on the talk page, and even gave the brief reply while editing.-- Omer123hussain ( talk) 06:06, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:Fatimah callig.gif, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 20:41, 24 October 2011 (UTC) New SourceDenise L. Soufi, "The Image of Fatima in Classical Muslim Thought," PhD dissertation, Princeton, 1997: Has been endorsed ad follows:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1851683313/
What is most significant about these traditions on Fatima's marriage is that none of them is told from Fatima' point of view. We see only the public aspect of the marriage; without the private side. We are not able to discover what Fatima thought about her marriage. What little we see of her has her acting out Islamic norms for women; namely in her shyness as a virgin when asked for her consent and when brought to her husband to consummate the marriage We also see a not-so-subtle polemic in Ali's favor barely concealed under the ostensible purpose of the narratives: the rejection of Abu Bakr and Umar in a favor of Ali, the emphasis about Ali's poverty, Fatima's complaints which elicit compliments about Ali from the Prophet. p.37 later in p. 45: Other traditions tell of Fatima's initial aversion to Ali. In one such tradition, Fatima cries when she finds she has been . married to Ali; the Prophet then tells her that God has ordered the marriage. In another tradition, Fatima protests that Ali is not handsome and has no money. The prophet then enumerates Ali's virtues and blessings given to him by God. This convinces Fatima and she says she would not choose anyone other than him. These traditions are similar to the Kufan traditions cited earlier which portray Fatima's aversion to Ali; as noted, they were probably originally a narrative device used to provide a framework for praising
p. 60 In some traditions prophet also consoles here with the high status of her sons in the Hereafter or with her status as Queen of the women of Paradise. p. 64-65 The Shia portrayal of Fatima and Ali as spiritually compatible and the portrayal of their marriage as harmonious and divinely ordained, contrasts starkly with the traditions which narrate her complaints. These complaints are downplayed by Fatima's eventual admission of satisfaction with her life, but they could not be erased because they were needed to enhance Ali's image for the Sunni-Shii debate over the caliphate. later in p. 202: like the Imams, she is a martyr for the cause of the true Islam. Her grief over the Prophet's death and the actions of Abu Bakr and his supporters, including the bruising and miscarriage she suffers and the hands of the latter. ultimatelly cause her slow and painful death. This part of Fatima's life became a subject for rawdah-khanis, taziyas, and elegies in the 12th/18th and 13/19th centuries, allowing the image of the martyred Fatima to take its place beside the stories of the martyred Imams. Particularly Husayn. In addition to her activist and martyr roles, Fatima is used as a foil to Ali in order to enhance his prestige; her complaints about Ali elicit high praise from the Prophet for him. In fact, whenever Fatima has any troubles or worries in her life, it is usually praise for Ali which is used to comfort
For the Wedding, Ali had to provide a wedding feast. Fatima was dressed in two striped garments and two silver bracelets yellowed with ssaffron and led to Ali's house by a group of women. p. 36
So concerned was Fatima about her veiling that she ordered Asma bint Umays to build her a bier (na'sh) so that the shape of her body would be hidden when she was carried to her grave. p. 74
A second problem was that Abu Bakr seemed to be the only person who had heard the Prophet's statement. p.99
traditions discussing her involvement in the events which took place after the death of the Prophet seem to contain some truth despite their partisan biases. This is due to the fact that the Sunnis were unable to completely suppress what was so obviously detrimental to their reconstruction of religious history: namely, that Fatima quarreled with abu Bakr over his seizure of the caliphate and the Prophet's properties, that she never forgave hime for his actions and that ther death was kept secret for some time, probably at her request, in order to prevent him from presiding over her funeral rites. What is ironic is that this small window into the character of Fatima has been downplayed or ignored by Sunnis and inflated and overemphasized by Shiis... p. 206
IntroductionNormally citations are not required in the introduction of an article because it is a summary and the sources are presumed to be included in the article. Therefor, I was going to remove this edit by Kakar22, which was the equivalent of a citation needed tag. However, when I double-checked the body of the article to make sure it was properly referenced somewhere, I got distracted by a section that needed cleanup and Edward321 took care of removing the personal note/CN request from the intro before I got back to it. The thing is, I haven't been able to find any text or references in the body to support the claim that Kakar22 was challenging. I think it would be best to rewrite that last sentence so that it only mentions what is currently supported by the text we have in the article; everything seems fine except the bit about Umar's letter of confession. Since this is a minor change I'm just going ahead with it, but let me know if there is a problem. Doc Tropics 03:06, 27 January 2013 (UTC) Round image in the infoboxUser talk:Zabranos is trying to add a round calligraphic image in the infobox claiming that it makes the page look visually more appealing. This image seems unencyclopedic and unusual to me, and the page is quite okay without it. Waiting to see what the community decides. - Ascetic Rosé 04:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
After the Prophet: The Epic Story of the Shia-Sunni Split in Islam By Lesley Hazleton, pp. 71-73The book is a Pen-USA finalist and has been praised by many including Professor Wilfred Madelung «she never did recover from her miscariage or from the bitter argument with Abu Bakr. But perhaps most painful of all in those months after the loss of her third son was the ostracism she suffered ordered by Abu Bakr to force Ali into line. [...] When she knew death was close she asked Ali for a clandestine burial [...] Abu Bakr was not to be informed of her death she said. he was to be given no chance to officiate at her funeral.» -- Kazemita1 ( talk) 16:36, 17 October 2013 (UTC) PronunciationInstead of all kinds of references and links to IPA, would it not be more practical - and obvious - to upload a sound file? Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia ( talk) 14:24, 24 February 2014 (UTC) "Fāṭima." Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition. Edited by: P. Bearman, Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel, W.P. Heinrichs. Brill Online, 2014. Reference. 08 April 2014"...but we see her support her husband so boldly against Abū Bakr that there is no question of timidity, and she appears as a woman of quite different calibre.... when it was a question of defending the interests of the family, although she was obliged to yield to the wishes of the head of the State, she did it unwillingly, refusing to I acknowledge the validity of Abū Bakr’s decision."-- Kazemita1 ( talk) 00:46, 8 April 2014 (UTC) Muhsin's seathSome sunni references such as Kitab al-Isbatu'l-Wasiyya of Allamah Abu'l Hasan 'Ali ibn Husain al-Mas'udi and Sharhe Nahju'l-Balagha Vol.3, P351 of ibn Abi l-Hadid narrate that fatima miscarried due to that attack. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhhossein ( talk • contribs) 13:04, 5 May 2014 (UTC) Grave of FatimaIt should be mentioned at the end of the lead that the exact place of her grave is not clear . -- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 15:54, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
@ Faizhaider I noticed that you have reverted my edition. As a summary of your edition, you'd mentioned "The grave in Baqi is commonly accepted as grave of Hz Fatima s.a.". As the sources say, different views are held by the two sects. Sunni Islam regard Baqi as the burial place, while shia believes that the possibility of her burial place being in the prophet's shrine is stronger. In order to prove my claims, I'd like refer to some parts of Burial place of Fatimah showing the views of shia scholar:
So, we'd better mention that Baqi, as the grave place of Hazrat Zahra (s.a), is just a possibility like other ones. The existing sentence written as the caption, makes readers believe that this is the exact place! I reckon, changing the caption will be a good solution. Mhhossein ( talk) 16:07, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
References
DoB & age contradictionI just came across contradiction in infobox regarding Date of Birth and age,
also, infobox lists age as 28 years 11 months 12 days. I think this needs to be fixed.-- Sayed Mohammad Faiz Haider t c s 18:25, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
Her Titles: Jaddah and Umm-ul Aaima (Mother of Imams)According to Shia Syed tradition “Fatimah” the daughter of Prophet Muhammad is also attributed with the title of Jaddah the Arabic word for "grandmother". Originally the title Jaddah is attributed to Eve but her all off-spring is not Syed lineage, therefore Fatimah is recognized as Jaddah for Syed Lineage from second to eleventh Imams and in between. Further more, in view of talk at [2] I have added her title of “Umm-ul-Aaima” (which is also Kunniyat for Fatimah) duly supported by two online refs. Approx 125 titles may be seen here [3]. Nannadeem ( talk) 13:23, 21 May 2015 (UTC) Page protectionThe page is sensitive by virtue of its contents, Semi-Protection for this page has been requested, here [4] today (13 June, 2015) . Nannadeem ( talk) 07:59, 13 June 2015 (UTC) |