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Oppose Game stalking has no real meaning other than a generic term for hunting game with rifle, bow or shotgun by approaching it quietly on the ground. There is thus no case for amalgamating deer stalking with this topic as this is a distinct and recognised activity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sewinbasher ( talk • contribs) 14:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose: Game stalking specifically refers to a mode of hunting involving stealth. Primary edit need IMHO for this article is expanding definition beyond UK. Kortoso ( talk) 21:29, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I don't really see the difference between deer stalking and deer hunting. Could someone clarify? Stalking seems to emphasize stealth, but...hunting involves stealth, no? Stalking involves culling, as does...hunting. A section discussing how deer stalking is different from simple hunting would be nice. Otherwise, it just looks like a local term for deer hunting or at best should be a sub-section of that page. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 20:13, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
- Checking the reference, the deer stalking Scotland page states "Deer stalking is the term we use in Scotland for hunting and shooting deer." Suggesting again, this is just a local term for hunting. The only definition that shows up on google is wikipedia, which is not itself a reliable source. A google web search turns up wikipedia as the first page, generally a sign of low notability. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 20:20, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
- The problem would seem to be one of language. In British English, "deer hunting" (as the article makes clear) would seem to refer to activities very like
fox hunting rather than those it may refer to in the US. It may be as useful to say, "deer hunting is a North American local term for deer stalking". The two articles, as they currently exist, are essentially about a similar activity but in two different places and with two different names. If there is an intention to make "deer hunting" genuinely international, there is still no reason why "deer stalking" cannot exist as as more detailed page about the activity in the UK (and wherever else the term may be used) with a summary and "main" link in the former article. An alternative would be to move the former to "Deer hunting in the US"or similar.
Ben
Mac
Dui 21:20, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
- In the British Isles, as Ben MacDui says, "deer hunting" is understood to be a clamourous pursuit with horses and hounds, whereas "deer stalking" is a cautious creeping up by one or two men (or women, of course) with (almost always) a rifle, or (rarely) a crossbow. The two could hardly be more different. No doubt you mean well, WLU, but when you set out yesterday to eliminate the term "deer stalking" from Wikipedia, you introduced real confusion for British and Irish readers into most of the articles you edited, and they were articles about the UK and not the US. It would be much appreciated if you could live and let live!
Xn4 (
talk) 04:25, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- By the way, that web site sentence ("Deer stalking is the term we use in Scotland for hunting and shooting deer.") is either careless writing or else aimed at a world-wide audience. If you could challenge the writer, I'm sure he or she would say that deer hunting, in Scotland, is something quite different. The point is that stalking has to consist of shooting.
Xn4 (
talk) 04:33, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
-
Here is a BBC web site page which reports "Research by Professor Patrick Bateson at
Cambridge University in 1997 for the
National Trust concluded that the activity was cruel and as a result, the National Trust banned deer hunting from its land. The New Forest Buckhounds later disbanded. However, a report in September 199 by five independent scientists commissioned by the
Countryside Alliance came to the opposite conclusion. They said that Professor Bateson's view of deer physiology was wrong on several points and that hunting deer was no more stressful to them than stalking, the only other legal way of killing them." On 27 October 2004,
Tom King said in the
House of Lords "It is interesting that 233 deer have been shot on the Holnicote estate in the four years since the National Trust introduced its ban, whereas 149 were shot in the ten years before it. That is on that one estate and reflects the need to cull the deer." Since then, the
Hunting Act 2004 has changed the law for England and Wales with regard to deer hunting, but not deer stalking. The
Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002 does not affect deer stalking, but bans hunting of wild mammals with dogs.
Xn4 (
talk) 04:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for assuming good faith on my actions - I was correcting a series of redirects to a page that had been a redirect for a month and a half [1]. I still think this is easily a short section in deer hunting in my opinion. Anyway, at least now the lead clarifies the difference between hunting and stalking which was otherwise buried in the body. I will note that it does seem to be a regional difference, since much of the hunting in North America would be by this page's definition, stalking, since they don't involve dogs and horses. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 19:56, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
-
Here is a BBC web site page which reports "Research by Professor Patrick Bateson at
Cambridge University in 1997 for the
National Trust concluded that the activity was cruel and as a result, the National Trust banned deer hunting from its land. The New Forest Buckhounds later disbanded. However, a report in September 199 by five independent scientists commissioned by the
Countryside Alliance came to the opposite conclusion. They said that Professor Bateson's view of deer physiology was wrong on several points and that hunting deer was no more stressful to them than stalking, the only other legal way of killing them." On 27 October 2004,
Tom King said in the
House of Lords "It is interesting that 233 deer have been shot on the Holnicote estate in the four years since the National Trust introduced its ban, whereas 149 were shot in the ten years before it. That is on that one estate and reflects the need to cull the deer." Since then, the
Hunting Act 2004 has changed the law for England and Wales with regard to deer hunting, but not deer stalking. The
Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002 does not affect deer stalking, but bans hunting of wild mammals with dogs.
Xn4 (
talk) 04:47, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- By the way, that web site sentence ("Deer stalking is the term we use in Scotland for hunting and shooting deer.") is either careless writing or else aimed at a world-wide audience. If you could challenge the writer, I'm sure he or she would say that deer hunting, in Scotland, is something quite different. The point is that stalking has to consist of shooting.
Xn4 (
talk) 04:33, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- In the British Isles, as Ben MacDui says, "deer hunting" is understood to be a clamourous pursuit with horses and hounds, whereas "deer stalking" is a cautious creeping up by one or two men (or women, of course) with (almost always) a rifle, or (rarely) a crossbow. The two could hardly be more different. No doubt you mean well, WLU, but when you set out yesterday to eliminate the term "deer stalking" from Wikipedia, you introduced real confusion for British and Irish readers into most of the articles you edited, and they were articles about the UK and not the US. It would be much appreciated if you could live and let live!
Xn4 (
talk) 04:25, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
- The problem would seem to be one of language. In British English, "deer hunting" (as the article makes clear) would seem to refer to activities very like
fox hunting rather than those it may refer to in the US. It may be as useful to say, "deer hunting is a North American local term for deer stalking". The two articles, as they currently exist, are essentially about a similar activity but in two different places and with two different names. If there is an intention to make "deer hunting" genuinely international, there is still no reason why "deer stalking" cannot exist as as more detailed page about the activity in the UK (and wherever else the term may be used) with a summary and "main" link in the former article. An alternative would be to move the former to "Deer hunting in the US"or similar.
Ben
Mac
Dui 21:20, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
- Always happy to assume good faith, WLU. I'd spotted that the redirect was created by you, here. Please be aware that there's a protocol for proposing mergers, with the {{Mergeto}} template. As it happens, this had been followed, resulting in the discussion here in which the consensus was clearly against a merger, and the {{Mergeto}} tags were removed at this diff.
- I hesitate to take this article in hand, as my deer-stalking experience is limited. It would be excellent if Ben Mac Dui, a Munro who must see a lot of stalking among his foothills, found time to improve it. Xn4 ( talk) 20:52, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
"Deer stalking is not the only form of control, or culling, for the six wild species of deer at large in the UK."
Should this read "is now" rather than "is not"? Either could be correct, but the current wording is strange since no other methods are mentioned in the paragraph. Azkm ( talk) 15:05, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
This article seems to be written with a strong emphasis to the UK. In the states, the alternative name for Deer stalking is Still-hunting. Perhaps this could be added somehow? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.59.243.32 ( talk) 17:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
- "Stalking" or "deer stalking" is more common in the States than "still hunting". Stalking is a universal term in the English language and shouldn't be restricted to Great Britain.
- And please sign your remarks.
- Kortoso ( talk) 21:11, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
Deleted per WP:TPO (Wikipedia is not a forum.) -- Kudpung ( talk) 15:59, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
'Conseil International du Chasse' -in last sentence of intro - section
dodgy spelling of French - should be :
'Conseil International DE LA Chasse'
188.65.183.52 ( talk) 22:29, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
Deerstalking formerly meant to stalk/hunt 'deer' as in any animal - which is the older meaning of 'deer' in English, cf. German 'tier'. Anyway, this is why there is confusion here over the difference betwixt 'deer stalking' and 'deer hunting'.And also why the so-called 'history' section of the article somehow lacks any indication of when deerstalking started. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.66.66.78 ( talk) 21:21, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
This seems somewhat disingenuous and likely etymologically incorrect. The text is clear on the difference between stealth hunting (stalking)and group pursuit or "drive" (hunting)of red deer. No one can know when stalking started, as it likely is one of the earliest forms of hunting of any animal that predates language itself. Deerstalking, means exactly what it says, and with the use of a rifle became fashionable in the British Isles after the Napoleonic wars, it has a considerable body of literature to demonstrate that as is given in the reading list for this article.-- Richard Hawkins ( talk) 23:17, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
- Please come up with some cites. We'd all love to see them. Kortoso ( talk) 21:12, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
This article suffers from some heavily nuanced phrasing, making it transparent where its author'(s) feelings lie, a good sign of a non-neutral article. Some of the problematic expressions include:
- "to bring much needed income"
- "Deerstalkers have the humane despatch of the deer at the forefront of their mind"
- "right behind safe shooting practice"
- "bring in much needed funds"
- "which in itself is rewarding as lots can be learnt"
— BillC talk 09:53, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
Yes, this is a heavily biased article and very pro-hunting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.188.233.41 ( talk) 15:44, 16 April 2019 (UTC)