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I am posting this comments and questions here because I do not know where else should they go or to whom shall I write
According to the earlier version of the article, University of Prague was the first university in German language as well, alas this statement was eliminated mid way, never to come back. I have read that in a Spanish encyclopedia, but I could not find the statement in Wikipedia until I checked the history of the article.
I wrote recently a short article about Karl Deutsch, a Czech political scientist who emigrated to the USA in 1938 and became Prof. at Harvard, Yale and other prestigious universities. According to several authors (they might be quoting each other) he graduated in Law at the Deutschen Universität in Prague, in 1934, and in Political Sciences at Univerzita Karlova (Dissertation on Goverment), in 1938. I inferred then, that these two were separate entities; but I also infer now, after reading the Charles University article that they might be the same. One source even indicates that Karl Deutsch was invited to continue his studies at Charles University, "in spite of the fact that he was an ethnic German", meaning that normally attendance to the Czech school was restricted or somehow limited for other ethnic groups.
Karl Deutsch died in 1992, so it is not possible to verify any thing with him. He wrote a short autobiography that covers the period from 1930 to 1980; so far I have seen it mentioned only once in the literature and have not seen any other comment about it nor the book or article itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lcgarcia ( talk • contribs) 05:47, 29 Nov 2004
That Univerzita Karlova is also the first German university, is an interesting fact, in my opinion, it should be once again in the article. As I said, I read that statement before elsewhere, if I do not see any reference to it (whether positive or negative) in Wikipedia I would then think that Wikipedia is careless, which I do not think is the case. -- Lcgarcia 05:47, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It is the oldest German university and to delete this from the article is quite wrong. Throughout the majority of its history it was a bilingual university. It has become (dt the walkout by Saxonian and Bavarian profs/students) the "mother" of many German universities. German history and Czech history is linked over large parts undivisibly and I think this should be acknowledged rather than wiped out. Refdoc 09:38, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
revert warring is not a solution. Please use teh talk pages to explain why you are unhappy with this. Refdoc 08:27, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
No, there were not just "German students" and "German professors" but the university was founded specifically "based on four nations", three of which were at the time part of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation (from today's POV a multiethnic and multinational entity) and two of which are now part of the German Nation. This - while undergoing various organisational changes - was a situation persisting until the mid of the 20th century. And by being founded in 1348 it is a few decades older than Heidelberg. So the claim that this is the oldest German university has nothing to do with territorial/cvhauvinistic/revisionist thinking, but everything with completeness of all our history - which is inextricably linked for better and for worse. The university - with all its ethnic strife - was certainly one of the better aspects of our joint history. Refdoc 09:34, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Comment: Charles IV. was elected as a king of Bohemia in 1346, and as a king of Germany in 1349, but Charles university was founded in 1348. There is no doubt then. ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 20:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Comment: I do not understand why the reference to the German Name of the University has been removed, when clearly there was a German, as well as Latin and Czech name for the University; and this before the University was split into 2 separate entities: one Czech and the other German. The title in German: Karls-Universität Prag is correct, and refers to the combined university and not the later k.k German Karl-Ferdinands Universität. The German title and should be included for historical accuracy and in order to avoid an error of omission. To this end I have re-edited the page and added the German name. Also is it really the oldest 'Czech' university, or rather the oldest university in Prague, in the Kingdom of Bohemia, and in the Holy Roman empire. It is the oldest university in the modern Czech Republic to have taught in Czech, but its history is far older than the modern Czech republic. I think the introduction should be rewritten to reflect this long and distinguished history of the University. Tempsperdue 20:12, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
In response to Tulkolahten recent edit: How do you figure that a University that was founded for education in Latin (In the kingdom of Bohemia), later taught in German then also in Czech, was subsequently split into 2 halves (Czech & German), and finally ended up as a University in the modern Czech republic, is (to quote yourself on the edit page): "It was, is and will be czech university."? I must misunderstand what message you are trying to convey? The university has a historical German name, as well as Latin and Czech, has a long history of education in all 3 languages, and happens to be in a city in the modern Czech republic, why should this factual information not be included in an encyclopaedia article on the history of the university? I am not interested in editing war, nor in some misplaced form of nationalism. The University is in Prague, it was founded by Charles I (Later IV) of Bohemia in a region of Europe where at least 4 languages were spoken. Why the insistence that the university being a 'Czech' university, a country which has only officially existed since the breakup of the Austro-Hungarian Empire? It seems that this does dishonour to the long and prestigious history of the University!(-- Tempsperdue ( talk) 19:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC))
Wasn't Prague even the capital of the Holy Roman Empire when the university was founded? As far as I remember, Prague itself contained very large percentages of both Czech and German population over many centuries. If that distinction even makes sense in Prague, that is... 84.160.175.184 ( talk) 21:15, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
"Therefore" means two things: 1) the reason why some people even today call Charles University "German" lies in a flawed perception of HRE as a German state and 2) as a first university in this part of Europe it logically attracted large number of students and scholars from neighboring German states. The whole issue is quite complicated and controversial and could hardly be explained in the lead in a single sentence. I don't insist on the one I have proposed, but if you really want to have it there, you should definitely come with something better than "as well as the earliest German university." which is (again) vague and misleading. BTW, have you already read this? Qertis ( talk) 19:37, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
I am not familiar with the individual case of Karl Deutsch in relation to why he left a particular university, but I know that he, like all the people that became part of the newly created country of Czechoslovakia had been Austrian citizens (Austro-Hungarian empire) until the lands of Bohemia and Moravia were taken from Austria to create the new country. The new country Czechoslovakia was made up of three ethnicities (all of whom were formerly Austrian citizens), Czechs being the largest group, Austrians (also referred to as Germans), being the second largest group and Slovaks the third largest group. The Austrians (Germans) made up about 20% of the population. The ethnic rivalries that existed prior to the creation of Czechoslovakia continued to exist after its creation, but now the Czech ethnic group was in the majority and recent scholarly books have finally portrayed a realistic picture of what the country was like. It wasn't the innocent, defenseless little democracy that English and Americans spoke of in the 1930's. When the country was created the Czechs made sure they would be in control and the Germans and Slovaks would be subservient to them and these other groups resented this. Its quite possible Karl Deutsch was forbidden to teach at the university because he was as ethnic German.
But the entire article is biased from the beginning; but considering its by wikipedia and Germans are part of the subject it's not surprising. The article says "In the revolution of 1848, German and Czech students fought for the addition of the Czech language at the Charles-Ferdinand University as a language of lectures. Due to the demographic changes of the 19th century, Prague ceased to have a German-language majority around 1860. By 1863, 22 lecture courses were held in Czech, the remainder (out of 187) in German. In 1864, Germans suggested the creation of a separate Czech university. Czech professors rejected this because they did not wish to lose the continuity of university traditions." But this statement is the first mentioning of the languages used since the university was created in the fourteenth century. Prague was founded by Germans and the German language was the primary language used in Prague and at the university until the nineteenth century, when the ethnic makeup of the city changed, as the article says.
The ethnic tensions continued and then the Austrian Adolf Hitler sent German troops into Czechoslovakia in 1938. This was used as an excuse to ratchet up the propaganda against Germany, in preparation for war against them. Germany was at the same time arguing for the rights of ethnic Germans that had been dispersed throughout eastern Europe when large areas of land was taken from Germany and Austria to create new countries in 1919. Czechoslovakia had never existed as a country before.
In 1945 at the end of WW II, the German population of 3.5 million people were brutally expelled from their homes in Czechoslovakia as part of the biggest ethnic cleansing operation in history when in total, over fourteen million (possibly as high as twenty million) Germans were expelled from their homes and cities and parts of Europe that had always been German in culture and population, but were suddenly completely depopulated and repopulated with people that had never lived there before. Nothing on this this scale had ever happened in history, before or since. The Slovaks were not happy with their position in Czechoslovakia in the 1930's either. They were able to finally break away and form their own state in 1993. Pgg804 ( talk) 02:01, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
.... Goebbels word for word.
The Czech Kingdom of Bohemia and Magraviate of Moravia were historical lands, they existed with strong kings of House of Přemyslid.
German immigrants have known very well where they settled from the very beginning.
Habsburgs were ELECTED by Czech nobles to become ruling family in the Czech lands in 1526 - because creating strong Central European union
was considered important for protection against Turk raids.
With the same legal right Habsburgs had been deposited in 1918.
The basis of Habsburg empire were Czech and Hungarian crown's plus a couple of Austrian duchies. You should know that.
--
Posp68 (
talk) 08:05, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Shanghai Ranking compares 1200 higher education institutions, not 17000. So the University is in upper 10-11% not 1.5%. Can somebody correct it, in another languages as well? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smirnoff 80 ( talk • contribs) 07:26, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
The lists of alumni and notable academics are split between the Czech University and the German University. However, many alumni and academics of the German University are (it seems falsely) associated with the Czech University, like, for example, three of the four listed Nobel laureates, Albert Einstein, Carl Ferdinand Cori, and Gerty Cori. I don't have the time and resources to figure out the correct association of everyone on the list, but this should be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.96.222.23 ( talk) 15:15, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
It seems that most of the damage was done by this revision: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Charles_University&oldid=1049025337 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.96.222.23 ( talk) 15:22, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
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