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"Many blacks feared for their culture with the decision since they would be with whies who distrusted and misunderstood them. [1]" This doesnt make any sense and is mispelled. I believe that the link is a misatribution. I say that this comment should be expunged.
Hi.I'm writing the Brown v. Board of Education article on the french wikipedia. Different, with more background than here, as there are few US history articles there, and the average reader knows little on that topic. After I read both 1954 and 1955 ruling, I believe there are several minor inaccuracies in this article, in that part : the following year, 1955, the Court found that the decision was not being enforced by President Dwight Eisenhower as stringently as it had expected. In this second Brown case, "Brown II," the Warren Court therefore ordered the states' compliance with Brown I "with all deliberate speed". And it is rather unfair to President Eisenhower.
Warren's 1954 opinion decides the constitutional issue but not the cases. It asks for more arguments on how the constitutional principle could be implemented. Then there is the 1955 ruling, which decides the cases (send them back to lower courts). So the court could not find than President Eisenhower did not enforce the decision fully in between. Besides, Does not the wording "with all deliberate speed" mean something like quite fast, but not too fast? It also asks for "a prompt and reasonable start". As I understand it (please pardon my french), the court expected lot of practical difficulties in ending segregation, which is why it asked for more arguments in 1954. The court made lot of room for lower courts to appreciate which delay might be appropriate. Later, the language was different, in Griffin v. County School Board in Griffin v. County School Board 377 US 218 1964 it writes "The time for mere deliberate speed has run out", and in Green v. County School Board 391 U.S. 430 1968, "We need a plan that promises realistically to work and that promises realistically to work now".
After 1955, while Eisenhower may not have been a strong proponent of desegregation at that time, he was not responsible for enforcing the decision either. Local school authorities were. And Eisenhower enforced compliance quite strongly in Little Rock in 1957 when state authorities failed too.
May I request some help too : could someone help me translate to french "due process of law" and "with all deliberate speed"? (I know due process is not linked to Brown, which is decided on equal protection, but it will be useful sometime)
-- didup on the french wikipedia
Did B v. B "explicitly outlaw" all segregation, or was it a bit more limited than that. (Don't get me wrong: I'm AGAINST segragation and discrimination.)
Here's another view:
My questions are:
It's call a "landmark" because like a milestone along a highway it shows a significant place along a path. (Let's not claim more progress than actually occurred at the time.) -- Uncle Ed 14:10, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
a couple of things I think need to be cleaned up, but I'm reluctant to edit core text on a prominent article.
Clearly, NAACP history, as well as USD501 historical documents make it clear that Topeka was chosen because Monroe wasn't a horrific tar-paper-shack school, busses WERE provided, only the elementary schools were segregated, and so the Topeka case was a decent example of seperate but equal is still bad I am tempted to put that into the article, but on the other hand, it is, to a certain extent apologetics for my hometown of Topeka. I would appriciate input on it. Rick Boatright 4 July 2005 02:11 (UTC)
Done. I'm sure that it can be improved, but there is at least _some_ of the local history there now. Rick Boatright 5 July 2005 05:16 (UTC)
Wasn't there a fifth case, Bolling v. Sharpe? Dboon May 17, 2006 1:38 pm (EST)
I'm not particularly willing to step into the tarpit of legal critcisms of Brown without some substantial peer review.
Therefore, I'm posting a proposed text _here_ on the talk page before moving it onto the main page. I know, I know, be bold. -- not when it comes to race-wars thank you veyr much. Rick Boatright 17:15, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
The note about McConnell is wrong. He has argued that Brown's result is compatible with the original understanding of the Fourteenth Amendment: "Further, as McConnell's law-review article shows, in the years immediately following ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment, as Congress acted to enact legislation enforcing the requirements of the Fourteenth Amendment, a substantial majority of both houses of Congress repeatedly voted to abolish segregation in the public schools. Although filibuster tactics and other procedural obstacles prevented ultimate passage of legislation abolishing segregated schools, McConnell demonstrates that these votes provide powerful evidence that the original understanding of the Fourteenth Amendment was that segregated public schools were unconstitutional." [2] -- 69.19.2.36 00:50, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
moved into the article... Brown v. Board of Education
in the sentence
Their fear was that this would lead to further segregation. They believed that with this type of choice, white parents would shift their children to other schools creating predominately african american and predominately white schools.
Wikipedia:Manual of Style states in the capitalization section that ethnic groups get capitalized.
uh. err.... uh So.... In this sentence, African-American is an ethnicity and gets capitalized but in this sentence "white" implies "everyone else, Asians, While Americans, Latino's and Europeans" and so does NOT get capitalized? Which, still, somehow feels wrong .
can someone please look over the captitalization of negro, white, a-a, and other "ethnic" groups in this article and see if we're being at least consistant, and hopefully consistant with the Manual of Style? Rick Boatright 13:26, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
is it necessary to list the cases on black rights in the background section? they are all listed again in See Also. how abt something like below, explaining two or three cases and consigning the rest to references:
Other landmark cases such as Shortpants vrs. Hickstown Board of Health conferring Podiatric Care rights, Winfrey vrs. Rest of Us outlawing reticence are listed below.
Given some of the discussion in the article, I take it that the decision was justified based on the 14th amendment, but the rationale is not discussed anywhere in the article. If that is indeed the case (or if it's not), could someone who knows about it add something about that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.250.168.135 ( talk • contribs) 28 Oct 2005.
Was BvB the first Supreme Court case to overturn a previous Supreme Court ruling? Of all the cases I'm aware of, I can't think of another such case, though I'm only familiar with 40-some major rulings. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.234.215.76 ( talk • contribs) 28 Jan 2006.
Google Maps link to Bus Stop is broken, specifically, the bus stop adress. Could anyone fix it? BTW, the white school google maps link is fine.
Edit: Now I fixed it. -- 66.240.36.2 19:04, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Since that's gone, I have added in a new link to the cj-online interactive map Rick Boatright ( talk) 20:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't necessarily disagree with this characterization of Brown II, but my agreement does not make it less POV. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:23, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
I certainly agree that this section is POV, as there is no citation, and is clearly written from an anti-Brown II point of view. This needs to be rewritten. Elephantmaster 03:34, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I think the role of the Howard Law School should figure more prominently in the article. At the very least I would recommend a link to the Brownat50 website with an annotated chronology, brief history, cases, bios, and more.
Thanks for considering it.
Steve
In the article, several names are linked that as far as I know have no notability aside from the present topic:
-- Jmabel | Talk 04:22, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
This article is puzzling: what was the court's reason for holding that separate facilities are inherently unequal? Did it not say? Henry Flower 23:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Several edits to this article over the last two months strike me as wrongheaded. Since this is obviously a controversial article, I am bringing these matters here for discussion rather than just reverting. I will allow at least 72 hours for comment before I edit, though I don't object if others edit sooner.
"The 17 May, 1954 decision reversed the Court's previous decision in Cumming v. Richmond County Board of Education" became "The 17 May, 1954 decision edited the Court's previous decision in Cumming v. Richmond County Board of Education (bolding mine, to highlight the difference). I agree that technically it didn't reverse the earlier decision. However, "edited" in this sense is a terribly technical term. I would suggest "reversed the precedent set by…".
The quote from Warren ("Today, education is perhaps the most important function of state and local governments…"), previously cited to http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20031211-085722-8465r.htm, is now uncited. That might not have been the best choice of citations, but it is hard to see how it could be worse than nothing.
The following (a section entitled "Brown III") was cut without even a link to replace it. I think it belongs in this article; perhaps it belongs in a separate article of its own, but even then it should still be linked.
In 1978, Topeka attorneys Richard Jones, Joseph Johnson and Charles Scott Jr. (son of the original Brown team member), with assistance from the American Civil Liberties Union, persuaded Linda Brown Smith—who now had her own children in Topeka schools—to be a plaintiff in reopening Brown. They were concerned that the Topeka Public Schools' policy of "open enrollment" had led to and would lead to further segregation. They also believed that with a choice of open enrollment, white parents would shift their children to "preferred" schools that would create both predominantly African-American and predominantly white schools within the district. The district court reopened the Brown case after a 25-year hiatus, but denied the plaintiffs' request finding the schools "unitary". In 1989, a three-judge panel of the 10th Circuit on 2-1 vote found that the vestiges of segregation remained with respect to student and staff assignment. In 1993, the Supreme Court denied the appellant School District's request for certiorari and returned the case District Court Judge Richard Rodgers for implementation of the Tenth Circuit's mandate.
After a 1994 plan was approved and a bond issue passed, additional elementary magnet schools were opened and district attendance plans redrawn which resulted in the Topeka schools meeting court standards of racial balance by 1998. Unified status was eventually granted to Topeka Unified School District #501 on July 27, 1999. One of the new magnet schools is named after the Scott family attorneys for their role in the Brown case and civil rights. [3]
The section on "myths" now contains what appears to be a myth in the worst sense. See this diff] for changes between April 27 and today. The section now contains the following text, in quotations but (as far as I can tell) uncited: "Actually, the black schools in Topeka were at least as good as the white schools. Some even had better playgrounds than the white schools. While it is true that black students often had to travel farther to get to their schools, the school district provided busing for black students, a service not available to white students." Conversely, some well-cited material appears to have been removed.
Jmabel | Talk 01:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
The paragraph that begins "Still other criticism focuses on basics of the cases" is new, totally uncited, and (among other things) argues counterfactuals about the possibility of having decided the case differently. I think this should be removed unless these views can be appropriately attributed. Otherwise, they just seem to be an unattributed defense of a less pernicious segregation. It appears to have been introduced by this anonymous edit with no summary. - Jmabel | Talk 17:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
The under the subject heading of "Legal Criticism" it begins with the discussion of the 1952 memo authored by a clerk of Justice Jackson. The first paragraph that is concerning this seems to imply that the memo was definitely written by the young Rehnquist but no substantial evidence has been given to sustain that it was in fact his opinion. I understand that there is strong evidence but not conclusive evidence, so it would be fair to say it was authored by him ( because it was signed 'whr') however factually we cannot say whether it was or was not his opinion. Therefore I think it should be changed to reflect that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Makwy2 ( talk • contribs) 25 October 2006.
Hello. I am a paralegal student trying to tie Brown to a segregation case regarding a developmentally disabled child in public school. What portions of Brown would be best to use? I am trying to argue that sending children in wheelchairs to a campus across town is segregation, and, according to Brown, inherently illegal.
How is it possible that this article doesn't mention Charles Hamilton Houston? He died before the decision, but the decision could not have happened were it not for his work nut-meg 00:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
I have a student working on an article on Barbara Rose Johns. At the age of 16 she led a student protest at Moton High School in Farmville, Virginia. This protest led the NAACP to file suit in Davis v. Prince Edward. This case, one of the five cases included in Brown, is the only one that originated with a student led protest. As Brown serves as an unofficial portal for young researchers interested in the struggle for civil rights, I’d like to see a link to the article my student is writing included in the Brown article. The role of Barbara Johns and the involvement of teenagers in this struggle are far too frequently overlooked.
Do mention of Barbara Johns and the Farmville student protest belong in the Brown article? If so, where in the article should it be placed? How many words should be given to the topic? Your feedback is desired.
They should have some more things about Thurgood Marshall, he played an important part in this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Koolkid93 ( talk • contribs) 22:04, 4 March 2007 (UTC).
I disagree and am somewhat offended by the fact that this article is listed as "Affirmative action in the United States" at the bottom of the article.
Wikipedia's article on affirmative action states the following: "Affirmative action is a policy or a program of taking positive steps [1] to increase the representation of certain designated groups allegedly seeking to redress discrimination or bias through active measures, as in education and employment. It is usually achieved through the use of preferential treatment for those groups. Proponents of affirmative action generally advocate it either as a means to address past or present discrimination or to enhance racial, ethnic, gender, or other diversity."
Brown v. Board of Education did not preferentially treat any group. It addressed obvious, inherent inequality in the idea that people can be separate and equal, two blatantly contradictory concepts in the context of race.
I strongly advise that this be removed from the category of "Affirmative Action in the United States." It is anything but that, and I don't see the case being challenged anywhere in the court system to this date. I would be appalled if anyone did. Travelsizedoug 08:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a section discussing the aftermath of the case and how much it actually affected segregation? we could also include a little bit on busing and forced integration.
Hi all! You are The Best!!! G'night —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.218.93.157 ( talk) 18:17, 5 May 2007 (UTC).
Here's a list of criticisms of this article from a guitar forum I frequent (yeah, we were off topic.) Anyway, I thought it might be useful for someone who's into these legal things (not me) to look at. The author would appear to have no interest in helping to clear this up. I am not in anyway knowledgeable in this subject, so I'm not of any help here.
Sorry, but I could not let the discussion of Wikipedia in today' Lunch Report lie. Went and looked up an entry I am a subject matter expert on - the Brown v. Board of Education case. To go over all of the errors and misconceptions would take quite awhile. Here are a just a few. .#1: The case was initiated when Oliver Brown contacted a local attorney William Glenn. Only problem, I have never run across anybody by that name was practicing law in Topeka and certainly nobody with that name having any connection with the case. There is, of course, no footnote so I do not have a clue where the author of the entry came up with this. The lawyers of record were Charles Scott, John Scott, and Charles Beldsoe. Moreover, the origins of the case go back to 1948 when the local chapter of the NAACP sent a representative to NYC to try and gain the national chapter's support in a school segregation case. No plaintiffs had yet been signed up. .#2: Thurgood Marshall argued the Topeka case in the Supreme Court. Sorry, the case was argued by Jack Greenberg and Robert Carter (who were also emploted by Legal Defense Fund) with local Topeka attorneys Charles and John Scott. .#3: Topeka middle schools (Junior High Schools) were integrated in 1941. Again - nope. They had always been integrated - only grades K through 6th were fully segregated. The difference was that black kids attended elementary schools from grades K to 8 while white kids attended from K to 6. The Graham case ended with the Board of Education changing the system so that all children entered junior high school in the same grade. Bottom line, you use this information in a school paper you fail. |
That's it. Hope it is useful.
BrockFrazier 04:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Robert L. Carter argued the cause for appellants in No. 1 on the original argument and on the reargument. Thurgood Marshall argued the cause for appellants in No. 2 on the original argument and Spottswood W. Robinson, III, for appellants in No. 4 on the original argument, and both argued the causes for appellants in Nos. 2 and 4 on the reargument. Louis L. Redding and Jack Greenberg argued the cause for respondents in No. 10 on the original argument and Jack Greenberg and Thurgood Marshall on the reargument. On the briefs were Robert L. Carter, Thurgood Marshall, Spottswood W. Robinson, III, Louis L. Redding, Jack Greenberg, George E. C. Hayes, William R. Ming, Jr., Constance Baker Motley, James M. Nabrit, Jr., Charles S. Scott, Frank D. Reeves, Harold R. Boulware and Oliver W. Hill for appellants in Nos. 1, 2 and 4 and respondents in No. 10; George M. Johnson for appellants in Nos. 1, 2 and 4; and Loren Miller for appellants in Nos. 2 and 4. Arthur D. Shores and A. T. Walden were on the Statement as to Jurisdiction and a brief opposing a Motion to Dismiss or Affirm in No. 2. from http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=347 |
I removed a ton of Wikilinks. It's standard practice to only link the first appearance of a word or phrase in an article, but in this case "segregation" was linked almost 20 times. I've removed all but the first link, and I've done the same for the terms "integration", "de jure", and "public school". I've probably missed something I'm sure.
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links)
Now, if someone wants to restore a link here and there feel free. But it was just excessive before. The manual also suggests:
So, just remember this, especially in an article like this where a term is repeated dozens of times. -- Atamasama 20:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
-- Tinned Elk 00:38, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
If you would really like to know the details of this topic contact the Brown Foundation in Topeka Kansas. Why is there no focus on the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. They were the initiators of it all. My view: there is still too much myth in this entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dennis.angle ( talk • contribs) 16:42, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
I am glad to report that this article nominee for good article status has been promoted. This is how the article, as of September 2007 compares against the six good article criteria:
If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you to all of the editors who worked hard to bring it to this status, and congratulations. -- Gavin Collins 11:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey, I apologize for criticizing something that many people obviously think is a wonderful encyclopedia entry, but I think the "common misconceptions" section should either be removed or entirely rewritten. I'm not a regular wikipedian, so I'm not sure I'd be comfortable altering the article much even if it weren't so controversial, but someone should. Without dissecting it line by line, I'll say at least that the section in question seemed insulting and irrelevant. I know I had not held the particular misconceptions mentioned...When a person consults a reference text, they're looking for information that is fact, not speculations about what misinformation or incorrect inferences might reside in a given person's head.
Otherwise it is an excellent article, which is prolly all the more reason to remove pieces that may hurt the credibility of the rest. R.Tempest 07:38, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
to "Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka" (the case's proper name)? Ansh666 ( talk) 23:23, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
English is not my mother tongue, and reading the poem online I don't even find that phrase in it, but the truncated
Why does the word all get included in the poem quote in the article when it isn't there in the poem? And secondly, what is the semantic difference between "deliberate speed" and "all deliberate speed"? __ meco ( talk) 16:51, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Brown's daughter Linda, a third grader, had to walk six blocks to her school bus stop to ride to Monroe Elementary, her segregated black school one mile (1.6 km) away, while Sumner Elementary, a white school, was seven blocks from her house.[8][9] That line is incorrect. She was one mile away from the white school and 7 miles away from the black school. If you are able to fix that it would be helpful. Thank you. -Mrs. Nick Jonas —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Mrsnickjonas95 (
talk •
contribs) 21:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I am hoping that someone will be able to change the title Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka to Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka Kansas. This newer title will be alot more precise and will enable others to find the page easier. Thank you. Firegoddess666111 ( talk) 18:34, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Can someone correct the grammar in the second paragraph of the introduction?
Currently:
Should be (as on The Race Question):
This sentence: 1) Clarifies that the declaration did not "denounce previous attempts at... morally condemning racism." 2) Clarifies that The Race Question not only denounced race theories, but scientifically debunked them.
The first paragraph closes with the claim that the victory in Brown paved the way for the civil rights movement. In fact, the civil rights movement had been underway for decades or centuries, depending how you date the beginning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Broadcaster101 ( talk • contribs) 08:42, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
I was researching the murder of Emmett Till. One of the locals said that one reason the locals were so touchy about outsiders was "Black Monday". None of the listed "Black Mondays" here made any sense in this regard, until I looked at the page for John Bell Williams, in which he called "Brown v. Board of Education", "Black Monday". Would it be possible to add this "Black Monday" reference to that disambiguation page? I'd like to be the last person to find this reference the hard way!
Pygar2 (
talk) 02:51, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |