The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved. Malcolmxl5 ( talk) 01:18, 12 January 2013 (UTC) reply

Bali → Bali Province – The name is Provinsi Bali. The article is about the province. If there is a primary topic it would maybe be Bali Island. But that is a separate debate and can be solved later. Furthermore, except for the Philippines, all other provinces in the ASEAN area use the full name, "Foo Province". A redirect can be left for now. AsianGeographer ( talk) 23:14, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply

• Evidence for full name usage: 1) ASEAN provinces: Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam 2) ASEAN non-province countries: Burma ( regions, states), Brunei ( districts), Singapore ( CDC and regions). 3) Asia provinces: Afghanistan, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Provinces of Iran, North Korea, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Japan. AsianGeographer ( talk) 23:14, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 23:27, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
  • But "Bali" is the common name for the island, not for the province. AsianGeographer ( talk) 23:39, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
• Oppose. Wikipedia's naming policy requires us to use the common name. The name that is most easily recognisable by the most number of people. WP:NAME and WP:UCN. The only reason to add the word "province" would be to disambiguate between two articles - which in this case is not necessary. Showing some examples of the usage you support doesn't convince me. There are many counter examples for using the current usage. Ie, in Indonesia: Central Java, West Java, East Java, and a number of other provinces. What about New South Wales and other Australian states? Texas? -- Merbabu ( talk) 23:28, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
  • There is no New South Wales Island. But there are many other meanings for Bali. And the primary meaning is the island, if there is any. AsianGeographer ( talk) 23:39, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
• Oppose per Crisco and Merbabu Satu Suro 23:30, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Their reasoning is not correct, since the primary meaning, if there is any, is the island, not the province. AsianGeographer ( talk) 23:39, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
    • Indeed, Bali is a province and an island. But for intents and purposes they are 99% interchangeable and congruous. There is no practical or effective reason to split them up. that just creates confusion, especially the way you are doing it. And you have no consensus. so please achieve that first before continuing. thank you -- Merbabu ( talk) 23:45, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
      • And it is much more, see Bali (disambiguation). If you ask people outside Indonesia, they would maybe say Bali is an island. The province is just not the primary meaning. I think it is inappropriate that only the view of people closely related to Indonesia is taken into account when the determination of the primary meaning is done. Other example: Taiwan Island vs. Taiwan Province. AsianGeographer ( talk) 23:50, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
        • Friends travelled to Bali recently. "We're going to Bali" mean 2 nights in Ubud, 1 night in Seminyak, and 7 days in Nusa Lambongan which they understood was part of Bali. -- Merbabu ( talk) 23:52, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
          • It is inappropriate to only use friends of certain editors to determine the primary topic. What about friends from Ethiopia, India, ... AsianGeographer ( talk) 23:54, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
            • Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Please refer to my comments above. Nusa Lambongan is widely understood to be part of Bali. -- Merbabu ( talk) 23:56, 4 January 2013 (UTC) reply
              • Part of Provinsi Bali, but not part of Pulau Bali. And if you ask my father, he wouldn't know what Nusa Lambongan is. But he would probably know that Bali is an island. Some years ago, I didn't know Indonesia has provinces, but for many more years, I knew that it has island. On each globe one can see island, satellite images show islands. They don't show provinces. And the provinces exist for less than 100 years. For how long do the islands exist? Please see Bali (disambiguation), there you find meanings of "Bali" related to India, Ethiopia, Bhutan, Cameroon, Nigeria, Taiwan. AsianGeographer ( talk) 00:31, 5 January 2013 (UTC) reply
                • Sorry, but your argument doesn't convince me. There is no benefit gained. People may be ignorant of Indonesian provinces, or the status of Bali, but that can be easily explained in the Bali article - creating new articles doesn't help that. -- Merbabu ( talk) 00:39, 5 January 2013 (UTC) reply
                  • The one has to read the article first. If the names are clear, the type of topic is explained by the title already. "Bali Province" would be about a province and "Bali Island" about an island. The province is a recent creation, the island is much older. And likely they will disappear in the order: province first, island later. AsianGeographer ( talk) 06:45, 6 January 2013 (UTC) reply
• Oppose - while I agree with AsianGeographer that the main topic for the name "Bali" is the island, not the administrative division, this article focuses so heavily on the island itself (for example, the "history" section is about the island's history, not the province's) that it would be unhelpful to move it - we'd have to move the vast majority of the content back into the island article. Huon ( talk) 00:08, 5 January 2013 (UTC) reply

Not to mention what I'm guessing are 100s or 1000s of links throughout wikipedia that will have to be changed. -- Merbabu ( talk) 00:12, 5 January 2013 (UTC) reply

If the history is in the wrong article, it should be moved to the right article -- 76.65.128.43 ( talk) 06:19, 7 January 2013 (UTC) reply

• Oppose This is extremely similar to the discussion currently going on at Talk:Autonomous Republic of Crimea, which looks like it will be moving back to Crimea, so I'll repeat what I said in that discussion. The naming conventions specifically deal with this sort of case. We are advised to use France, not French Republic; Italy, not Italian Republic; and Germany, not Federal Republic of Germany. Crimea falls into the same pattern. So does Bali. The case of Taiwan quoted above is somewhat different, as Taiwan, the country, is not the same as Taiwan Province. The country includes Taiwan Province and Fujian Province, even though the latter consists of just a few islands which were formerly part of Fujian, which is now part of China. The article at Bali Island is a content fork, and should be merged back into this article. Skinsmoke ( talk) 00:14, 5 January 2013 (UTC) reply
  • This is not correct: The primary topic for France is the country - not the case for Bali and the province. I didn't say that Taiwan the country is the same as the province. If you re-read, you see I didn't mention the country of Taiwan at all. I mentioned Taiwan Island and Taiwan Province. Fujian Province has nothing to do with that. Please check the corresponding articles. AsianGeographer ( talk) 01:29, 5 January 2013 (UTC) reply
    • Sorry, but how do you figure that the primary topic for "Bali" is not, um, "Bali"? -- Merbabu ( talk) 01:32, 5 January 2013 (UTC) reply
      • I don't figure that out. But I see no evidence that the province is the primary topic for the term "Bali". I personally would assume the most common meaning is the island. But it could be equal with the province. That means there is no primary topic at all, like for Washington. Even if one common name for Washington DC is "Washington". AsianGeographer ( talk) 06:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC) reply
• Oppose As per WP:UCN. - Kai445 ( talk) 08:45, 5 January 2013 (UTC) reply
  • And where is the prove that the primary topic for that ambiguous name is the province? AsianGeographer ( talk) 06:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC) reply
• Oppose as per WP:COMMONNAME. Yogwi21 ^talk 13:21, 5 January 2013 (UTC) reply
  • And where is the prove that the primary topic for that ambiguous name is the province? AsianGeographer ( talk) 06:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC) reply
• Support per nom. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is the Island, and the WP:COMMONNAME of the island is "Bali", so Bali Island should be renamed to Bali, and the province should be renamed to Bali Province -- 76.65.128.43 ( talk) 06:18, 7 January 2013 (UTC) reply
  • Hmm... —  Crisco 1492 ( talk) 07:07, 7 January 2013 (UTC) reply
    • Even if there was a separate article for Isle of Bali, I would think that the province Bali would be the primary topic, and the most common name. As it is right now, this article covers both (This article is about the Indonesian island., Bali is a province in the country of Indonesia. The province covers a few small neighbouring islands as well as the isle of Bali.) Apteva ( talk) 02:50, 8 January 2013 (UTC) reply
      • Comment the island article has been merged into this article, so the situation has become moot. I think the cache fell behind when I checked it before. (sometimes it seems to show things a week or two out of date) -- 76.65.128.43 ( talk) 07:05, 8 January 2013 (UTC) reply
        • For your information, the island article was created after this move request, by the author of the move request. -- Merbabu ( talk) 07:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.