 | This article was nominated for deletion on 15 June 2006. The result of the discussion was Keep (early). |
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I'm proposing to delete the group articles since there is infor in the main FIFA World Cup 2006 article. Kingjeff 21:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Instead, I propose to remove some of the information at the 2006 FIFA World Cup page. I think, that the results at that page should be as on 2004 European Football Championship. When the WC is over, a statistic page also could be made, also as Euro 04. ka la ha 21:32, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- These articles are much more detailed than the main article, as they should be. They are not redundant and do not need to be deleted. Melchoir 22:59, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Should be kept - it's a better place for more detailed information on the individual groups doktorrob™ 14:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
- This isn't a news agency. Kingjeff 15:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I wrote an older version of this section, with examples, whihc can be found here. That version does not cover all scenarios and so is inaccurate. It was also too long, so it was merged with an earlier, more concise version. If anyone can summarise the tie-break scenarios in a concise and understandable way, with examples, please do so. Carcharoth 13:13, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- If you can let me know what you found difficult to understand in my rather shorter version here, then I'll try to clarify it. I'm not sure why you insist, with bold type, that there must be examples. Kevin McE 13:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- As currently written, the tiebreak scenario section is wrong.
- the winning margin in the Trinidad and Tobago-Paraguay match exceeds that in the England-Sweden game by...
- If TRI wins by two and ENG wins by two, the winning margin in the two matches is the SAME and yet TRI advances.--
DaveOinSF 13:53, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- The phrasing in the article is much clearer, and, as you say, now correct - I'd like to say that is what I was groping towards, but I would probably have gone wrong somewhere. In reply to Kevin, I think examples do help. For example, England 2-0 Sweden and Trinidad and Tobago 1-0 Paraguay is an example of when lots would be drawn. This is a good example of a realistic scenario that could be mentioned. An example where goal difference ties, but Sweden advance on goals scored (what I had omitted from my analysis) is England 3-1 Sweden and Trinidad and Tobago 1-0 Paraguay. In fact taking the cases of Trinidad and Tobago and Sweden, the tie-break scenarios could be summarised with the following examples (minimising the goals scored for realistic scenarios):
- Trinidad and Tobago qualify on goal difference (sum of winning margins more than three):
- England 2-0 Sweden; Trinidad and Tobago 2-0 Paraguay
- Sweden qualify on goal difference (sum of winning margins less than three):
- England 1-0 Sweden; Trinidad and Tobago 1-0 Paraguay
- Trinidad and Tobago qualify on goals scored (score 2 more than Sweden, 1 more overall):
- England 1-0 Sweden; Trinidad and Tobago 2-0 Paraguay
- Sweden qualify on goals scored (score same as T&T, 1 more overall):
- England 3-1 Sweden; Trinidad and Tobago 1-0 Paraguay
- Lots are drawn (T&T score only one more goal than Sweden, same overall):
- England 2-0 Sweden; Trinidad and Tobago 1-0 Paraguay
- Trinidad and Tobago qualify on goal difference (sum of winning margins more than three):
- These are all realistic scenarios, and all five possible tie-break scenarios are shown as examples. Doesn't this make it clearer? Carcharoth 14:19, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- I've just realised my error in talking about the difference in the winning margins rather than the sum of them. I still think that examples make it so lengthy as to put off readers. Kevin McE 15:19, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, then stick them at the end of the article, if you think people will want to read about the matches first. In fact, I think something summarising the match results would be good, rather than having to scroll past long team lists in each match... Carcharoth 15:57, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me like a written summary of the results of the group, at least in the context of who the teams who qualify will be playing, would be helpful. The group page is of little help if we don't show what happens when teams win the group. It would just need to be a paragraph and could even be added to the lead, but without that, this page seems little more than a stats page. We need some text to draw everything together. - DMurphy 16:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)