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The wheel is often viewed as the quintessential invention, and was most likely invented in all ancient civilizations, although not always used.
How true is this? From what I know, wheels as means of transportation were invented around the middle east around 4000 BC and spread outward from there. The concept is neither as obvious as one might think, nor as useful (eg without roads slider bars do a better job moving heavy things around).
Where is the evidence of South American wheels?
Also - I've added a bit about how wheels transform forces, and I think that when one talks about a wheel as a simple machine it is that that one is referring to, not the transformation between linear and rotary motion (which is really a special case of a friction gear when you think about it). Should this maybe be changed?
Yes it should! Apart from being gobbledygook it should be on a page called Wheel and Axle. I'm about to try and make this change. hope it works.
Aw, come ON people! Someone must have something to say of the history of the wheel! I had an exceedingly short go, but that was deemed inappropriate even though i framed it rather diffusely. A more fact filled history must be out there somewhere. Or are we inventing the wheel again? :-) --Anders Törlind
I got rid of the "third-most-important invention after language and fire clause," because language was never "invented" by humans. -- Alex S 04:27, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Am I the only one that finds is strange that the only external links are to bacteria pages? (valid though that may be) Seems very unbalanced. The whole notion is a bit dodgy, the wheel in question is more like a cog which I suppose is type of wheel but... Also, did bacteria really invent the wheel, that's like saying an animal invented the brain, bacteria may have evolved the cog wheel but not invented it. I'd really like to take the whole reference out, it's cute but not appropriate -- Bob Palin 02:39, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)
"Recent" (april 2002) excavations in the Ljubljana (which lies in Slovenia) marsh have brought up a wheel with an axle that is dated somewhere around 3250-3150 a.Chr.n (=BC). --Matija Šuklje, 16 Oct 2004
I'm going to make some changes again based on my view that the page should be about the wheel as an aid to transport, and that other (different) things called wheels should be kept separate to avoid confusion.
Also I will change (my own) explanation of how the wheel works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimbowley ( talk • contribs) 19:37, 3 April 2005 (UTC)
I agree in that it may be likely that many ancient civilisations would used implements like wheels around the same general period but documented evidence may say otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.153.231.50 ( talk) 06:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
I find this description of the wheel to be very lacking. The writer seems to think that dry equations actually impart a real knowledge of what is happening mechanically. Far from it. Also, the history section was much better about a year ago. I'm planning a total rewrite. If anyone has much to say for this version, please speak up in the next few days. JDG 05:02, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
In reply to Dab's objection that the spoked Iranian wheel dated in the 2nd Millenium BCE may not be authentic, to his request, I visited National Museum of Iran, and took the 3 pictures below.
The curator of the museum verified that the spoked wheel's date had been determined by Carbon dating among other techniques, and that it had been excavated in Susa. The wooden parts of course were added for display. But the rest is made of an alloy of Copper and Tin.-- Zereshk 14:41, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Always happy to verify. Can you please see to it that Wheel Iran.jpg is updated? It's still displying the old picture I put up.-- Zereshk 15:04, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
JP Mallory writes:
Tomas Gamkrelidze and Vyachislav Ivanov, interestingly enough, have noted that one of our words associated with wheeled vehicles, Proto-Indo-European *kwekwlo bears striking similarity to the words for vehicles in Sumerian gigir, Semitic *galgal, and Kartvelian *grgar. With the putative origin of wheeled vehicles set variously in the Pontic-Caspian, Transcaucasia or to Sumer, we may be witnessing the original word for a wheeled vehicle in four different language families. Furthermore, as the Proto-Indo-European form is built on an Indo-European verbal root *kwel—'to turn, to twist', it is unlikely that the Indo-Europeans borrowed their word from one of the other languages. This need not, of course, indicate that Indo-Europeans invented wheeled vehicles, but it might suggest that they were in some for of contact relation with those Near Eastern languages in the fourth millennium B.C. — James P. Mallory, In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology and Myth, Thames and Hudson, 1989, p. 163.
The Sumerian GalGal could also derive from Indo European Gala, Gal, Gla,... which means "throat, voice" (for example: seaGUL, Golos(Glas), Glagolica (Slavic), Gala (Sanskrit), Celt, Ghaul,... which meant "speakers" (birds). Tell me 1 reason WHY should ALL words and ALL cultural elements "derive from Semitic" nonsense? Because Bible says so? Oldest wheel (yet) was discovered in Europe (Slovenia); is is at least 1000 years older than any wheel in Sumeria or middle east. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.165.118.168 ( talk) 20:03, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
We are not so much speaking of the invention of the wheel as we are of wheeled vehicles. Toys supporting very little weight are one thing; a practical vehicle that can support its own weight as well as cargo is something entirely different. -- FourthAve 21:26, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
Any discussion of wheeled vehicles has to carefully distinguish between carts (one axle, two wheels) and wagons (two axles, four wheels). The distinction is recorded in the Proto-Indo-European language, and descends into all branches of the language family. American English has mucked things up by terming automobiles and railway carriages (either passenger or freight) as 'cars'; 'car' originally referred to a cart-like vehicle, and in artistic contexts (painting, sculpture), often a chariot. -- FourthAve 10:56, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
This is one large wheel made from wood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.232.33.135 ( talk) 20:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
I think you should be more consistent at updating articles of some of the more important inventions in our history.I realy hope someone will sort things right. Oldest wooden wheel was found in Europe! http://slonews.sta.si/index.php?id=677&s=29 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.212.165.43 ( talk) 22:40, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
There does seem to be evidence that wheeled vehicles were invented in Europe first, and just maybe, in Northern Europe:
I find this as shocking as I imagine you are. -- FourthAve 21:58, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
The origin of the wheel should be traced back to a more primitive form, such as a rolling log supporting a heavy movong object or platform. Another possibility is a round stone used as a primitive ball bearing supporting an object. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.184.117.210 ( talk) 10:53, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
D.Q. Adams and JP Mallory do the article "Axle" in EIEC. They note there were two types of axles. The more common was a fixed axle where the wheel rotated on it; this is found in Mesopotamia, the Pontic-Caspian steppe, NE Europe. The second type had the axle rotate with the wheel; this attested in Switzerland and southern Germany, and seems to have once been more widespread, to have been replaced by the first type.
The most "abundant evidence" for early wheeled vehicles is from the steppe at the foot of the Caucasus; see Kura-Araxes culture and the Maykop culture, both of which most likely had Indo-European speaking components.-- FourthAve 15:42, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
I have read in academic works that the earliest spoked wheel was found in the Netherlands. The most likely origin for the wheel was developed from rollers fitted on sleighs to cross the tundra and steppe in Ukraine and under the now flooded Black Sea. What really supports the invention of the wheel is the expansion of people from the Ukraine to Ireland (Celts) and the northern borders of China (Tocharians et al). A similar expansion moved south (Arians vis. White skinned) and the only realistic explanation is that these people had both the wheel and possibly wheat or other grain cultivation. It created a need to expand to prevent over population. This is a theme that Middle Eastern writers have alluded to from ancient times up to the last movement the Turks. There is considerable evidence of advanced cultures in the Ukraine and Caucuses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.29.65 ( talk) 11:31, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
We may need Wheel (symbol) for those winged wheels and chakras. Weren't wheels taboo in Tibet before the Maoist invasion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.250.143.131 ( talk) 11:49, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
from above
Where is the evidence of South American wheels?
There are wheeled things we suppose to be TOYS - wheeled dogs in Mexican contexts, wheeled Llamas in Incan. The usual reason given for the failure ot use them on carts is that usable roads would have been too hard to build or too uncommon, which I for one buy for the Andes but not for Central Mexico. --MichaelTinkler
you all so need a central empire of some sort to pay and mantane for the roads,it wasn't the case in central mexico at the time 1 to use wheels you need a flat surface(rare to existe by it self) in generaly a road 2 a central empire is needed to bealt them and maintain them 3 the empire must have sufichient resources and technology to build them(the incas didn't have buldosers on ther mountens,the romans at my nolge did not buld roads on mountens)
so in general at historic times it was easyer to not use wheels.
that good unaf?do somebody wants to add this whith corect english -- Ruber chiken 21:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
=> It does not follow that wheels weren't developed by indigenous Americans because they had no draft animals. When I push my grocery cart around at Safeway, I don't have a horse or ox or elephant or dog to pull it either. Pedestrian utility devices were doubtless used before vehicles in those cultures where the wheel took root, but Native Americans did not embrace their use. Nor did they adopt the potter's wheel, using clay coil fabrication to this very day. They must have had a reason. User:LarryPerkins1 — Preceding undated comment added 23:47, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
www.neolit.prv.pl
The vase from Bronocice - a ceramic pot with incised carts, discovered in 1974 during the archaeological excavation of a large Neolothic settlement in Bronicice by the Nidzica River, ca. 50 km to north east of Krakow (the Pinczow, Land District). The excavations were carried out between 1974 and 1980 by the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnology of the Polish Academy of Arts and Sciences and the State University of New York at Buffalo (USA). The ornament on the pot shows a symbolic depiction of trees, fields, roads and a river. The most important component of the decoration are five rudimentary representations of a four-wheeled cart. The pot from Bronocice has been dated by a physical chemistry method (radiocarbon dating) to 3520 B.C. It is the oldest representation of a cart (or a wheeled vehicle) in the world.
The Institute of Archeology and Ethnology of the Polish Academy of Arts and Sciences, Kraków Branch, ul. Slawkowska 17, phone +48(12) 4222905,
www.archeo.pan.krakow.pl
Wha tabout these? They have no entry, no matter how small in this article... Why? They are a special variation seen in some furniture... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.121.78.110 ( talk) 20:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
It's been some time since I cracked a linguistics text book, so I could be wrong on this. Proto-Indo-European was never actually spoken by any culture. It is a theoretical language which has been contructed by linguistic typologists and historians by looking at groups of modern languages and then imagining what the common origin of them might have been. To say that the word 'wheel' (or any modern word) derives from it is inaccurate. This statement should probably be revised --Paul Cnudde
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.176.55.40 ( talk) 14:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC).
I do not believe these two articles should be merged as they discuss two totally different things that use the same word.
Wheel and axle: The simple machine of a a wheel and an axle turning (at this stage it is unimportant which is making which turn) which leads to another connected wheel and axle to also turn.
Wheel: The wheel as we know it used for motion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GBobly ( talk • contribs) 14:43, 12 February 2007 (UTC).
"History of the wheel and axle" says first The wheel reached India and Pakistan with the Indus Valley Civilization in the 3rd millennium BC then The wheel reached Europe and India (the Indus Valley civilization) in the 4th millennium BC. Which is right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.7.20.133 ( talk) 22:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC).
"The wheel was invented in 44 b.c. by Ruben Rehr a well known American from Accent, Alabama." I don't think this is true. o_o — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.228.66.92 ( talk) 01:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
ha! so it didn't appear in Africa until colonialism! not even the egyptians had it -- 89.181.17.93 15:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
The wheel on a ramp diagram at the top of the article seems out of place. It is somewhat related to the article, but such an important position should be occupied by a simple picture of a wheel -- shouldn't it? ThreeE 02:09, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I agree there should be a picture of a simple wheel at the top of the article.
I removed the diagram you refer to for that reason, and because it does not explain the function of a wheel. The diagram showed why a round object rolls downhill, it did not explain why a wheel is useful for transporting things along the surface of the planet which is the major function of the wheel.
I have added this explanation because the author of the picture has reverted it back in, and it may become a point of contention if the author continues to do so. Jimbowley 14:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
There is conflicting text in the history section. Origin of wheels says "The wheel reached India and Pakistan with the Indus Valley Civilization in the 3rd millennium BCE", only lines later to state "The wheel reached Europe and India (the Indus Valley civilization) in the 4th millennium BCE". ??? so which one is it? Twthmoses 07:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I have found an authoritative reference for the origin of the wheel : written in the Pulitzer Prize-winning book Guns, Germs, and Steel. The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond ( 1997 ). In the last page of chapter 10, entitled Big spaces, big axes, he writes that the wheel appeared around 3000 B.C. in the Near East, and the invention was spread to a large part of Eurasia within a few centuries, while the same invention, independently born in Mexico, never reached the Andes. Please, check the original quotation, since I have translated from my Italian translated edition of Diamond's book. Carlodn6 21:39, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
The invention of the wheel should distinguish between two stages: firstly the invention of the tournette, or slow potters wheel, which occurred in Mesopotamia in the 5th millenium BC. But wheels as applied to vehicles were developed much later, usually dated as between 4000 and 3500 BC. It is a common misconception, as popularized in innumerable cartoons, that the first wheel were made of stone.
As per the ancient Hindu scriptures - " Ramayana", wheels chariots and horses existed and prevalent during the " Treta Yuga" about a million year (1,000,000) ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.231.12 ( talk) 05:47, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
I think this article should be only about those things that we put on vehicles (and some other objects) to allow them to roll along. This is what people think of when the wheel is talked about as the quintessential invention. It is this improvement in the transport of goods and people that aided the spread of civilization and trade.
Other things that happen to be called wheels should not be on this page if they operate on different principles and serve other purposes.
My intention is to move the article in the above direction. What do you think? Jimbowley 12:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
No comments? OK to summarise what I am trying to do: I aim to modify the pages wheel wheel and axle simple machine to make it clear that a wheel on an axle on a cart is not a wheel and axle in the simple machine sense.
This task is made more difficult because wheel and axle is not well defined and there are many wrong or poor examples in teaching materials on the web. But I will try. Jimbowley 14:00, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I note that this article starts with an example of what a wheel can be used for, rather than what a wheel is. Also, the example given is not general - i.e. a wheel can be used to transport light devices as well as heavy ones. and heavy is a relative term! I suggest that the introduction should be re-ordered to first describe what a wheel is, then to describe its potential applications. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.144.162.227 ( talk) 11:56, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
It would be nice to avoid the constant implemetation of users personal favorite wheel pictures at the head of the article.
I think:
1) Given that the wheel is often thought of as the quintessential invention the main picture should be suitably antique.
2) It should also not obscure the basic function, which is that it turns on an axle, or the axle turns in the vehicle.
A picture of a modern driven wheel, eg on a bicycle or train or car, does not meet the above criteria.
Thoughts please? Jimbowley 13:26, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
This article is in need of an expert and some serious fact checking. I slapped the expert tag on the history section, but as a read though the whole article everything needs trimming, facts checking, expanding, etc. It is with some sadness I must note, that such a fundamental issue in the history of mankind is in such a bad shape on wiki. Twthmoses ( talk) 17:57, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
- I don't believe you'll find an 'expert' as the true invention of wheel and axel is lost to time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.162.161.240 ( talk) 19:27, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Two games, Mega Man X2 and Mega Man X7 have weapons based on wheels, should we mention them? 82.3.49.212 ( talk) 09:16, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
As far as I know, there are no implementations of the wheel in living forms. Wheel seems to be a unique man made invention. [email protected] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.72.43.17 ( talk) 10:30, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
The History section begins:
Well, did the wheel reach India in the 3rd or 4th millenium? Herostratus ( talk) 02:06, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
I think that the use of logs as rollers for moving heaving objects should be mentioned in the history section, but I don't know enough to put it in authoritatively. Ccrrccrr ( talk) 17:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
I suggest a little experimental archeology demonstrates very quickly that under normal circumstances trying to move a heavy load using rollers simply doesn't work. The rollers sink and the force necessary to rotate them is generally greater than the torque from friction can develop. On a very firm surface (such as a paved road) the rollers rotate, but even then if they are simply hewn from available timber and not carefully shaped they still don't work.
AIUI all experiments demonstrate that when moving a heavy load some sort of lubricated slide is much more effective - always assuming that there is no access to water borne transportation.
The crucial misunderstanding is that it is not the wheel which is the important development, but that of the axle. Many of the ancient drawings would seem to be not of rollers, but of thin greased slides on supporting logs.
Dave —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drg40 ( talk • contribs) 12:28, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Stones have been used as ball bearings in sluices made of wood. A heavy object was rolled on the ball bearinga.
The concept of the rolling log and/or ball bearing could have given rise to the concept of a primitive wheel. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
67.184.117.210 (
talk) 11:08, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
The example for adding 4 wheels is incorrect. It doesn't matter that the sliding distance is reduced. The work is computed over the distance that the force is applied. If you push a cart 10m, then you have applied a force over 10m, regardless of whether the cart has wheels or not.
So, the computation should be: 981 x 0.1 x 10 = 981 joules —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.26.11 ( talk) 14:56, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
In fall of 2008, the German magazine Spiegel featured a cave painting in which a person is very clearly shown to be riding in a chariot featuring spoked wheels.
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-37708-4.html The byline for this photo states that it is a cave painting from 7,000 years ago, taken in the Libyan desert. If this information is in fact correct, it is visible evidence that the spoked wheel existed long before the earliest dates/ pictures mentioned in this Wikipedia article.
I am not allowed to edit this article, so I would like to request that a more qualified person please examine this evidence to determine whether adjustments should be made.
Thank you.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Cognates ( talk • contribs)
Please correct it! You should definitely include that the oldest wheel IN THE WORLD was found in 2002 in Slovenia: http://www.angelfire.com/country/veneti/AmerDomoOldestWheel.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.176.193.35 ( talk) 14:05, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Cucuteni-Trypillian cow-on-wheels, 3950-3650 BC http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.39.185.185 ( talk) 17:57, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
The article provides no information of the usage (or lack of) by precolumbine civilizations in the american continent. I think a note about this should be included somewhere.
~Didn't Americans invent the wheel? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.102.181 ( talk) 16:15, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Here's the article in the Smithsonian
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/A-Salute-to-the-Wheel.html
A Salute to the Wheel
Always cited as the hallmark of man’s innovation, here is the real story behind the wheel – from its origins to its reinvention
By Megan Gambino
Smithsonian.com, June 18, 2009
This entry should be revised. "a wheeled vehicle can only be used when harnessed to a draft animal" is clearly wrong. The Greeks used wheelbarrows. That whole paragraph seems to be more of an essay- and WP:OR-type of writing, which is not Wikipedia style.
I don't know why this entry should be limited to the wheel as transportation. As the Smithsonian article says, the potter's wheel predates the use of the wheel for transportation, and the water wheel was a significant source of power. The wheel had symbolic meaning and the Wheel of Fortune, rotam fortuna, was very important to Chaucer and throughout the middle ages. -- Nbauman ( talk) 16:06, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
The history section now says this:
Also, it's completely unsourced and should removed. I know there are no reliable sources that will confirm any of this, the oldest validated evidence for the wheel used for transportation dates from 3,400 BC with inconclusive evidence dating from 3,600 BC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Devijvers ( talk • contribs) 19:39, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
The image used to illustrate uses "DC" for a dating system. What does that mean? Shouldn't it be changed to AD or CE? Slac speak up! 06:05, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
there are other issues with this image. It's based on a sound idea, but it is a bad idea to include the caption within the image because any change to the caption means the entire image needs to be re-uploaded. It would be better to have the individual drawings as separate images so they can be transcluded and annotated as part of the editing process. -- dab (𒁳) 12:13, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
re this, it is true that you won't find 4th millennium BC wheels in Scandinavia, or Germany, or Britain, but the wheel had certainly reached the Balkans (Vinca, Cucuteni) by the mid 4th millennium. -- dab (𒁳) 08:09, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
How could you extrapolate a chaiot form that polish motif, I can bring "depictions of chariots" much mch older from göbekli tepe, çatal höyük, ubaid, jamdat nasser.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Wazazbronocic.GIF
For example the 7000 years libyan depiction of chariot is far more convincing than that of Poland.
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-37708-4.html
There was no such early indo-europeans nor Semites in poland as 3500 bc nor in mesopotamia before 2800 bc.
So the oldest cart,chariot is the mesopotamian one.
Please correct this article.
Thank you for your attention
Humanbyrace ( talk) 12:32, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Humanbyrace, you have been active on Wikipedia for close to two years. I think you could be expected to have a grasp of WP:RS and WP:V by now. Your link to a Spiegel online photo gallery is not a reference. The Bronocice pot claim is referenced to Anthony (2007), p. 67. If you have a reference contradicting Anthony (2007), bring it forward, but the burden is on you to present proper citation. We only report what our references say, we do not report the "truth". If you can show us a 7,000 year old image of a chariot, please be our guest. Or perhaps you should contact Nature immediately and be a famous discoverer. The petroglyphs in your Spiegel link are probably less than 4,000 years old. This was just a journalist compiling some clip-art. But feel free to prove me wrong by citing an actual scholarly reference. -- dab (𒁳) 09:46, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
Bornoncie pot does NOT look like a wheel whence I've read that first real physical remains of wheel were found in Syria-Iraq
Humanbyrace ( talk) 07:54, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Could we show how this is derived? If not on the actual page could somebody show me here? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.220.16.99 ( talk) 18:18, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I find this section almost unintelligible to illustrate my point, item 1 in the first list includes two terms, "normal force" and "sliding interface". I'm guessing normal force is either some term specific to mechanics or indicates a force acting perpendicular to the surface the wheel is rolling on. I've no idea what sliding interface is, the road?
Item 2 in the same list just doesn't make any sense at all, "sliding distance" that one leaves me absolutely clueless.
I've no objection to the use of specialized terms because I appreciate the difficulty in describing even simple mechanisms but they should be defined or referenced in some manner.
Wheels work for two reasons, they transfer the momentum of the object being moved so it acts about the axle. They reduce friction through two means, reducing surface contact and transferring the load of the object to a discreet area that can be easily lubricated i.e. the axle.
"Common examples are... and the rollers on an aircraft flap mechanism." is a terrible example. To the vast majority of people it is an obscure example, not to mention that the vast majority of aircraft in the world have simpler flaps that do not deploy by rolling along flap tracks. I would like to change it to "wheels on a bicycle".-- MiG82au ( talk) 11:26, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
Turkish archeologists report of a discovery of the oldest wheel, 7500 years old. [2] [3] I don't know how credible is the claim. -- Eleassar my talk 21:50, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Can someone please fix that empty space... move the photos below the paragraph... because scrolling down with paragraphs and then coming through an empty space is an annoyance. user:Nusent 22:58, 21 September 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.78.220 ( talk)
What is the evidence of pre-colonial use of the wheel in Australia or New Guinea? CountMacula ( talk) 00:51, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
I cancelled the note that the Ljubljana wheel connected with the Globular Amphorae Culture. Neither is that noted in the adduced article, nor did that culture reach so far to the south. Correct would be the Early Baden Culture. HJJHolm ( talk) 16:04, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
I think there should be some mention of these. They had large links over the wheel, like a chain, but the links were flat panels that really maximized gound contact. This could be in the same section as modern snow chains. Those kind of wheels were also used on some mine clearing wehicles during WW II. An example is the " Alkett Minenraumer" (or possibly Minenräumer). Pictures here. GMRE ( talk) 15:49, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
The article says this:
It would seem illogical to have a horse drive a chariot. Shouldn't it be "human-driven"? Actually, I think I'll just change it to "horse-drawn". Dynasteria ( talk) 14:01, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
In the history section, I have substituted "the Americas" for "the Western hemisphere". Technically the western hemisphere includes part of Britain, which certainly had horses and wheels in the Bronze Age. Darorcilmir ( talk) 10:09, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 20:09, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
No mention is made of the Linchpin. I suggest it should be - but I don't have the "courage" to enter it! -- Osborne 19:24, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
hey is this editing thing working?? new here BluishGreenishBlurryface ( talk) 05:04, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
(Wow. Three days of editing from that user resulting in an indefinite block. I hope that's a record.) -- BjKa ( talk) 14:57, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
I am questioning the functioning of any load carrying wheel so-called wheel before the invention of the metal axle, which would have prevented wood-rubbing-wood friction and a resulting fire. As important as this question is, none of the axle, wheel or axle and wheel articles mentions it. Phmoreno ( talk) 21:03, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
Both questions remain in my mind. Someone familiar enough with a chariot axle should be able to shed light on the problem. Phmoreno ( talk) 02:23, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
I found the answer to the axle question here: [4]
According to Bela Sandor, professor emeritus of engineering physics at University of Wisconsin at Madison:
King Tut chariots appear to be the first mechanical systems which combine kinematics, dynamics and lubrication principles. "The bearings are built exploiting the modern principle of a hard material against a soft material, and by applying animal fat between the surfaces. The grease reduces friction and increases running duration," said Rovetta When set in motion, immediately after initial start-up, the friction between the wood of the bearing, the grease and the wood of the wheel pivot heat the grease.King Tut chariots appear to be the first mechanical systems which combine kinematics, dynamics and lubrication principles. "The bearings are built exploiting the modern principle of a hard material against a soft material, and by applying animal fat between the surfaces. The grease reduces friction and increases running duration," said Rovetta When set in motion, immediately after initial start-up, the friction between the wood of the bearing, the grease and the wood of the wheel pivot heat the grease.
Phmoreno ( talk) 18:37, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
Several of the problems discussed in earlier sections of this talkpage in my opinion stem from the fact that when the general talk is about "The Wheel", its invention and its cultural impact, then from an engineering standpoint, this is actually just a convenient shorthand to talk about the invention of the axle and bearing. I can't think of any "Wheel" in the sense which the article tries to cover, which exists without the additional parts of an axle and a bearing(*) - while some wooden round disk that rolls is obviously not much of an invention in itself. My point being that "The Wheel" often does not really mean the technical part called "wheel" at all, but the complete assembly which is needed to make a cart/wagon/chariot possible. Maybe the article should reflect this situation better and distinguish between the invention of the axle and bearing on one side, and the progress made on the wheel itself (spokes, etc.) on the other.
(* OK, some
casters may have balls and no definite axle, but this concept makes the properties of the bearing even more important, and clearly has no cultural impact on the "History of The Wheel".)
--
BjKa (
talk) 14:57, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
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I would like to add a citation needed to the page /info/en/?search=Wheel. In what appears to be the 10th paragraph of the History section, this statement appears: It is thought that the primary obstacle to large-scale development of the wheel in the Americas was the absence of domesticated large animals which could be used to pull wheeled carriages.[citation needed]
A good source for this is the book Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond, p. 237. ISBN 978-0-393-31788-8 Parameter error in {{ ISBN}}: checksum. Thanks in advance for your help! Nm47867 ( talk) 17:46, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
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I noticed an unnecessary comma. "either by way of gravity, or by the application". The comma before the conjunction and on gravity is rendered useless. Fawxplus ( talk) 21:34, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
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the wheel is in use today in many devices. its historical significance is undoubtful. it stabds out as one of the most important inventions of all time. maybe something should be written about that. 84.212.111.156 ( talk) 18:58, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Necessity is the mother of invention. They used a sleighs firstly but with rainy global warming invented wheeled wagons.
Per MOS:ERA, I harmonized all of the BC/BCE references to BCE and added hard spaces (along with a few other copy edits while I was there). While this ended up changing most of them from BC to BCE, I chose BCE because the article used almost exclusively BCE until a couple of weeks ago when another anon inconsistently changed most of them without discussion ( diff), which runs counter to MOS:ERA, and left several instances of BCE still in the article. 2607:F2C0:EB78:3:D8A7:EFCA:E4E:23A7 ( talk) 20:31, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
I have removed dubious claims that implied that the Harappans had spoked wheels. See, for example, this source. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:25, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
I expected to read about the proto-Indoeuropean use of the spoked wheel and chariot as well as it's widespread use in both ancient Indian epics as well as ancient Indian history. The spoked wheel was hugely important in ancient India. Well traveled thoroughfares commonly had groves dug in from the high amounts of wheel traffic. Viṣṇu is said to have used a wheel as a weapon. The entire article is lacking and apparently has been for several years. Lastly, spoked-wheel aside, it's perhaps important to relate how important the wheel was to civilization aside from transportation. A class-based society forms after someone has storage containers. Those who stored seeds (and alcohol) in clay pots could not only survive through the rough times, but this also led to commerce. People who stored things could them sell them to those who couldn't (thus we buy things from a "store"). Once the potters wheel came to an area, pottery could be produced much faster—making them cheaper and more common. This would have increased the number of people who could store and plan for the long term, ultimately lowing the gap between classes. The wheel was also hugely important for making containers for brewing alcohol. One strongly supported theory for why people started settling down and growing massive fields of food is because of our desire for alcohol. That's a lot to unpack and I also left out details for brevity, but all that to say that a ton of work needs to be done on the history.-- 2604:2E89:B579:0:446A:9DE2:E031:DC2 ( talk) 00:25, 30 September 2019 (UTC)