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I have images of the Marconi B3410 telecine which is maintained in working order as part of the Marconi collection at the Sandford Mill Museum in Chelmsford, UK. Images include closeups of the optical block and a line array sensor. I am happy to donate these images to improve this article if someone can tell me where to send them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.174.174.235 ( talk) 11:44, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
The pulldown information for film-->video transfer should be summarized in 24p, and the bulk of that info should be in telecine. However, 24p video-specific pulldown methods such as advanced pulldown belong in 24p. Glennchan 05:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok, let's talk about this and get rid of the tags. I don't think there should be a merger since the two articles cover two distinctly different topics. 24p refers to video running at 24fps framerate. Telecine refers to transferring film to video. Glennchan 23:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I added a piece regarding the newer method of PAL telecine. Does anyone know if it has a proper name? Is this a decent technical explanation for it? -- Lmb71
@Lmb71, above: It is a known method, that's for sure, but the best reference I could find is the MPlayer homepage... It's known as 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 telecine there. Although the technical name is unknown at this stage, I did add the information, in an attempt to make the article more general. Niek Bergboer 17:34, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
My statement regarding this method being employed in more movies for PAL playback has a citation request. I cannot find anything online specifically that would verify this statement. I have only personal experience. For example, "About A Boy" starring Hugh Grant, Toni Collette and Nicholas Hoult has been telecined this way, obviously because it has such a great soundtrack. Lmb71 ( talk) 13:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
People are using the term Euro pulldown. Seems appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.215.75 ( talk) 00:22, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Is this original work? Any chance it could be wikified, if it is? -- Zoe
It is original, as good as my word is for it. -- iluvcapra
"is photographed at 25 frames per second, and the PAL video standard broadcasts at 25" and what' done for movie films at 24 fps this make +4% is it acceptable ? Ericd
The speeding-up of the motion is no big deal, but a bigger issue is the pitch shift. Actors with recognizable voices can pitch up and sound unrecognizeable, or at least recognizeably bad. I worked with a UK crew recently and they told me all UK theatrical features were shot 24fps and projected so, and that only the TV version would suffer. Pitch shifters are sometimes installed in European theaters for when they project American films, but only if they happen to use a 25 fps projector. It's apparently a huge mess but nobody seems to mind, since sync doesn't suffer. Holman covers the issue better in Sound for Film and Television. -- iluvcapra
Great picture!!! iluvcapra
This paragraph seems dubious:
The fields are displayed in chronological order: A1, A2, B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, D1, D2, D3. Each film frame stays on screen for either 2 or 3 fields, for an overall average rate of 2.5 fields. (2.5*24=60) I can't say this has ever seemed very uneven or non-smooth to me; is that what's being referred to, or the artifacts of freeze-framing on one of the video frames consisting of fields from two film frames? -- Brion 20:23, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
The original version of that para was added here, and sounds even more dubious. What it seems to be trying to say is covered in more detail in the reverse telecine section below it, so I'm removing it. -- Brion 20:32, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
I simply do not understand why so many movies are still made at 24fps if most of their viewers are watching them on DVD and Video, which operate a higher framerates. On photographic film I can see a rational reason, it saves film. But why do even digital movies still stick to this framerate. And, if 100+ line tv was techically possible even way back in the 1940s, why didn't a 100+ lines analong video format replace cine-film over a decace before digital video was a reality? And what is the origin of the 24p framerate?
Questioner, please leave your name! We still shoot films at 24fps for many reasons. First, all the projectors on earth are built to run at 24fps, and adjusting most of them would be technically non-trivial. As well, movies shot at 30fps would, of course, consume 20% more footage and so be that much more expensive to develop, print, and ship for the same length movie, without a significant gain in motion rendition. Digital movies shoot at 24 because it's guaranteed to transfer to 35mm film without visible artifacts (it's much easier to do frame conversions from film to a lesser medium, like NTSC, than it is to go to it.) As well, you need at least a 2000 lines to begin to approach film's rendition, as opposed to 100+, and analogue video can approach this, as you say even in the 50s and 60s (in labs), but the issue was being able to reliably record such a signal and disseminate it on a reasonable piece of bandwidth, which was not practical until recently, with the advent of digital transmission. -- iluvcapra
Could you talk about HD Advanced Telecine? a.k.a 1080p 24f -- Jack Zhang 20:30, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
The first pronunciation given on the page "tele-seen" is wrong in my experience; saying it that way in LA is the mark of a total noob. I'll change it unless someone wishes to attest otherwise. Iluvcapra 06:57, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I have been advised via my talk page that my removal of the incorrect pronunciation "tele-seen" has been reverted because it had been discussed here previously. The advisory noted "[...]contribute there if you can substantiate the invalidity of the pronounciation. ". Unfortunately, I'm afraid that this is a misconstrual of how Wikipedia, and encyclopedias in general, work. I was previously aware of this discussion. That some people contend that their - or others' - mispronunciations exist, does not constitute verifiable proof that this mispronunciation is a valid pronunciation. The onus is upon those who contend that this mispronunciation is valid to produce documentary proof from reliable sources to substantiate it. Discussion here, absent some citation from a reliable source, is meaningless.
I realize this may seem contentious, but the reality is, many people routinely refer to realtors as "real-a-tors". That they do this does not validate their mispronunciation by repetition; it merely means that they are mispronouncing the word repeatedly.
I am removing 'tele-seen'. Absent a citation from a reliable source, other than one found via google that ultimately winds up pointing back to this article, then feel free to restore it. Anastrophe 03:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that this section would be much easier to understand if it discussed the principle in isolation first, and then added in the complexity due to interlace and the 59.94 frame rate. Certainly it makes the illustration easier to understand:
Also, IMHO the other version of the image gives too much emphasis to the idea of two video fields making a frame. Since fields are exposed and viewed one at a time on normal screens it is them, not frames, that are important when discussing fluidity of motion.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Algr ( talk • contribs) 07:33, 29 January 2006
I'm disturbed that a reference to "telecine" as a pirating term is placed in the introduction to this article. It should be no more than a footnote - at the very most given its own section at the bottom of the story as an "also" - not given a spotlight in the introduction. Nearly every movie ever photograhed on film undergoes a telecine process, now with the advent of digital intermediates, even theatrical releases ON film have been "telecine'd." The fact that - very rarely - a telecine can be utilized to make pirated copies of movies should be an afterthought. In addition, this is taken to the exteme that the article is CATEGORIZED as an article about pirating. As a professional involved in the images of motion pictures, this is offensive. I can't imagine I'm alone with that. This would be like adding a reference to the Mafia in the introduction to the article on Italian Americans. As I work on the color grading article, this will be a revision for the near future. LACameraman 08:33, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The Reverse Telecine article absolutely needs to be split off into a separate article - it is a massively big subject in the audiovisual industry. There also needs to be more information about the close relationship between reverse telecine ( 3:2 pulldown removal) and deinterlacing. Sometimes these two are even confused. However, 3:2 pulldown removal applies to movies broadcast as video, while deinterlacing applies to video broadcast as video. Because both movies and video are broadcast, many modern devices (line doublers, upconversion in HDTV sets, some progressive scan DVD players, etc) automatically switch between reverse telecine (3:2 pulldown removal) and deinterlacing, based on algorithms that automatically analyze the video for the prescence of a pulldown sequence in the video. Chips such as DCDi perform this task. As proof, there are over 70,000 search results that cover both "3:2 pulldown" and "deinterlacing" on the same page: Search ... therefore more consistency needs to exist between the deinterlacing article and the reverse telecine section in the telecine article. I've added a few sentences to refer to each other, as a result, because of the close relationship that exists here (especially in the explosion of modern end-user video equipment, such as HDTV sets which, when upconverting NTSC 480i material to high-def, automatically do both either deinterlacing or reverse telecine, depending on the video material being displayed). Mdrejhon 22:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
From the article:
"...this process requires not only a print of the movie on film, which cannot be obtained legally by an individual..."
Huh? It's illegal for people to own films? That can't be right, even in theory. — Chowbok 19:22, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
It is approximately the case that theft is involved in an individual obtaining a 35mm film print. The major studios do not sell them or give them away, so aside from renting them (and putting aside those rare individuals who might rent 35mm films), the gist here is correct. At this point the text has been changed to "which often cannot be obtained legally," it is more correct now. Jhawkinson 12:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
No. It should not be moved to Telecine. Telecine are real time scanning to SDTV or HDTV. Scanners can be real time or as slow as a a few frames per second and go to data files ( DPX). Telecine Guy 06:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Fine with me. Talk:Motion picture film scanner it is. Telecine Guy 06:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
In this revision, 84.56.228.131 ( talk) changed the justification for 2^11:3 pulldown from based on pitch to based on avoiding the shortening of runtime by 4%. Is there some justification? In my experience (having some 25fps 35mm projectors), the pitch change (and action changes) is quite noticable. But few people care about the runtime changing (especially when it gets shorter! More stuff to program, more commercials, etc.) for its own sake. Can someone justify the change? jhawkinson 00:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
What PAL DVDs use 2:3 pulldown? That implies the original framerate was something like 21fps. David 18:37, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
One of the alternatives to method to pulldown is finding the least common multiple frame rate, and use that as as a sample: 24 fps => 120 fps => 30 fps. Is this ever used in the film industry or just for hobbyists? If it is should it be mentioned? -- Voidvector 08:41, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't the title of this section be 2^11:3, or 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown, because I count the 2 being repeated eleven times, not twelve, but maybe there's something I'm missing here. Thanks! ☆ CieloEstrellado 19:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Could someone add something about 5:5 if it makes sense? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frankk74 ( talk • contribs) 18:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Wouldn't the origin of the "TK" abbreviation, already noted in contrast with TC for timecode, be likely related to kinescope and/or kinema? Citation needed, obviously ( WP:OR). ENeville ( talk) 16:51, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
The article reads: "16 fps (actually 15.985)" but my understanding is that NTSC framerates involve dropping a frame every 1000 frames, or division by 1001, and 16000 / 1001 is roughly 15.984, not 15.985! The other quoted frame rates follow this pattern. Is there something I'm missing? C xong ( talk) 02:18, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
It suggests that images A B and D are shown clearly but C is only shown blended, but A isn't shown any more clearly than C.
The sequence is AABBBCCDDD which, assuming the previous frame ‘persists’ one frame, yields AxBBxCxDDx where x is a blended picture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.81.0 ( talk) 02:12, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
It's correct. The first C resides in the second field of previous B frame, and the second in the first of D's. Thus blended. Dannyniu ( talk) 02:14, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
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