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This is getting all a bit too messy! As this is an English-language encyclopedia, I've changed Suryoyo to a redirect to Syriacs. For the time being, here are the contents of that page:
Suryoyo (ܣܘܪܝܝܐ) means Syriac, the language, and Syriac, the identity). It is derived from the Greek name for Aram, and based on the name for Assyria. The plural form is Suryoye ( Syriacs). Modern Suryoye are traditionally Christian. Suryoye identify themselves as Assyrians and Arameans.
The Syriac Orthodox Church use the term Suryoyo offically.
Other forms of Suryoyo are Suryaya, Suroyo and Suraya.
I'll try and work in some of this material somewhere. Gareth Hughes 13:52, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure that merging this article with Assyrian people ( talk · history · watch) is such a good idea: there's a lot of political baggage attached to both terms. I tend to prefer Syriacs because it refers to those who have the Syriac language as their heritage. Assyrian is probably the more political term; it is associated with political nationalism. -- Gareth Hughes 23:33, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree with Garzo, I would prefer integrating information from the Arameans and Assyrian people articles into this Syriacs article. -- Benne 23:46, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that syriac should be used as umbrella for the other names as aramean,assyrian,chaldeans and so on. Due to the fact that syriac is more accurate throughout the history and the other names are more political. Suryoyo 00:12, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't get it. Why are you reverting the page. I spruced it up to a much higher standard.
What's with you reverting my revision? I cleaned it up to a higher standard.
Check my dictionary? That's funny. Lemme check my head.
And please for love of God, if a person is responisble for article of "syriacs" in wikipedian. then I would presume that they know the difference between suroyo and suryoyo. suroyo is a syriac word for a christian, and suryoyo is an identifier for a people that is the suryoyo people. suryoyo -> syrian, currently used by arabs syria/syrian, wheras the change to syriac/syriacs. that is Syriac is an identity of a people and a pretty natural name for all political names as assyrian, aramean, chaldean... By the way if you would by any chance think that christian is in syriac mshehoyo then you have mistaken, due to that there are severeal words in syriac that mean the same thing but with slightly differente attributes, as is for the word muslim in syriac tayyo, and mushlimoyo, same thing but with differente attributes, Im not going to explain the differences here in this forum Suryoyo 12:38, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Someone help me out with the Assyrian cuisine article I created!!!
Syria was the Greek name for Aram which was never independant of Assyria until the collapse of the empire. It was later incorporated into other Empires.
I corrected anything conlficting with your views.
Benne,
I don't know if you are Syriac. In Sureth (Syriac), a Suraya is an Christian speaker of Aramaic. It was a self designation to distinguish ones self fromt the Pagan (Kapore) Arameans durring the advent of Christianity.
I would like to work on the merging of the assyrians/arameans/chaldeans/maronites, I belive that they all should be under the umbrella name syriacs. The list of language, people, culture should be merged into one category syriacs.
One example is the kingdoms of palmyra, edessa, petra, hatra, the mardaites (so called isaurians) all of these should be under the syriac name, due to the fact that syriacs are the name that is used throughout history about 2300 years. Eventhough some may say that the real name is syrian, it dont mind using the term syrians, but then we must alter the name of the current state to its original name in the wikipedia. And that is Arabs/arab and the current syrian state to be called arab-syrian. due to the fact that in the syrian legislation it is said that the country is the arab syrian republic.
Suryoyo 01:16, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi all
I want you all to see the progress that is made within the syriac community,
the link I give you is a letter from a Maronite who states that maronites are ethnically syriacs not arabs. http://www.chaldeansonline.net/news/news0420.html
Suryoyo 23:54, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
But don't list categories that don't exist.
Lebanese Christians are Syriacs. Remember the story of Jesus and the Syro-Phoenician woman and her daughter.
You are right, Assyrians and Chaldeans are Syriacs. That's why I placed Assyrian people, Chaldeans, and Category:Chaldeans in Category:Syriacs, instead of the other way round. ---- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 22:13, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I added Template:ethno-stub to the article. Wouldn't it be nice to create a separate stub category for articles related to the Syriac people? --- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 10:08, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the links below from the article. They are in desparate need of a context, to make the connection to the article obvious. For now, I'll leave them here. --- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 20:04, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Assyria is our nation. Syriac Aramaic is our Language. Christianity is our Religion! These are the facts. Aram/Syria was never independant of Assyria, after the fall of Nineveh and eventually the fall of Babylon it was incorporated into Greco-Roman Empires. Even Phoenecia/Canaan eventually became an Assyrian colony. The inhabitants were deported to Nineveh and Babylon and merged into Assyrian culture. That is the fact.
kurds never have had a country, I would appreciate if you could change that benne, and for the idea of an future state is the syriac nation in beth nahrin Michael 23:45, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
For a few weeks some activists, including under the pretence of sociology, have ben busy replacing every ocurrence of "Assyrian(s)", by "Syriac(s)" and letting unaware people believe that "Syriacs" is the "neutral" common denomination for several religious communities and/or ethnic groups, varying from the Syriac orthodox and Catholic churches and the Assyrian/"Nestorian" and Chaldean churches to the same plus Maronites, and even Melkites. It should be stressed here that various Aramaic/Syriac languages and dialects were dominant in the "Fertile Crescent" till the Arab/Islamic conquest/invasion of the region, and even some centuries afterwards there were probably still spoken by many people (including some Maronites and other inhabitants of present-day Lebanon and West Syria up to the XVIIIth century). But it should equally be stressed that ethnic and national identities, particularly in the Post-Ottoman states, are not primarily based on the spoken (or past-spoken) languages, they're rather based on a mix with a predominance of religious ("sectarian") affiliation. The use of "Assyrian" as an ethnonational denomination for the only "Syriacs" (orthodox or catholic) and "Assyro-Chaldeans" (orthodox or catholic) is not so much an ideological choice as a convenience because all these groups usually refer to themselves with various local or religious ethnonyms, just as e.g. many small Serbian-Croatian-speaking ethnic groups in the Balkans, be they catholic, orthodox or muslim (Torbesh, Goranis, etc.). The use of "Syriacs" is however exclusively referring to the members of the Syriac orthodox (and maybe catholic) church, never to the whole array of ethnoreligious communities, whereas "Assyrians" is at least accepted by a lot of members of all these communities, even if not by all members nor by the clergy for instance. I think this disinformation campaign with extensive renaming, and including other ethnoreligious groups under the same "Syriacs" umbrella, should be stopped as soon as possible, it undermines the credibility of wikipedia. -- Pylambert 16:15, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
The problem with people like you is that they dont have any idea of the course of history, I dont think that you even have any insight about the Syriacs. The problem with people like you is that you read popular fact books and build up an historical image of the world based on them. The thing is that those books dont provide any information about the issues that arent popular. Those book always follow the mainstream so that book sells. Real historical books and documents arent from one source. I would appreciate for the sake of the future of wikipedia that persons like you and who have those ideas never becomes admins. It is people like you that wikipedia becomes a propoganda tool rather than an objective encyclopedia with no ties to political parties.
I can say that after beeing active for about 2 month I realize that it is actually useless to have to listen to garbage from people like you, who have no historical accuracy but only political reasons to try to manipulate wikipedia.
best wishes Michael 17:13, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Again I love my nation and I dont tink that kurds should have a nation due to historical reasons. Now, why do people get so angry when others dont think like them? that is the big problem, fanatism. I may not agree with the kurdish vision of a sate but I dont work agains tem, they may work and make their articles as they wish and those who are intersted can discuss what is right and wrong in the kurdish articles. I dont see the problem of beeing pro assyrian state and not pro to a kurdish state. Dont I have the right to think that? your maby you guys cant accept that there are other ideas than yours. From my point of view I dont think that kurds should have a kurdish state due to the simple fact that parts of the so called state is actually bethnahrin. or as many of you call assyria, (i dont really care). As long as they proclaim my land I obliged to be against them, same goes for the currently occupation of the "modern" states iraq/syria/lebanon and so on. Im not in a political party, nor am I in any activity for persuting a independence. Im just claiming my rights. Assyria is my country not turkish,kurdish or arab. You pylambert and sargonius in other hands are political and talk about working with kurds and so on for future assyrian and so on. Now how is the political person here? Im full aware that on the current kurdification that have been occuring in northern iraq this last 2 decays, but never thougt that have gone to this extent.
And about the maronites , melkites. please stop reading pro arab books and come down to earth. If you arent aware of the arabification of the syriacs and other minoritys then you shouldnt even come near the articles about syriacs or kurds. because you have much to learn.
As I said before, good luck with wikipedia. And you guys will probably get it as you want. why not start to change it now, all to Assyria/Assyrian/Assyrians instead of syriacs and remove melkites, maronites and so on due to the reason that you seem to have such knowledge to make these changes. maby you can revert it to the time when the article said that syriacs are a syriac speaking group. And even if you will do that, the truth wont change, you are radicals and fanatics trying to make wikipedia a political tool for you amitions.
feel free to do so.
Michael 10:13, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Monsieur Lambert,
It's saddening that you continue to label people as "nationalists", "activists", and the like, without any reason.
There should be no room for this kind of degrading behaviour on Wikipedia. We ought to discuss by exchanging arguments rather than by engaging in personal attacks. -- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 12:48, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
First of all Suryoyo/Michael. It's Beth Nahrain. Even in Syriac it's two words, why do you make it one in English. Your mispelling redirects to the correct form. Second of all why are you against Kurdish Indpendence? You think you're better than them? How do you support Assyrian Independence and also Beth Nahrain? Beth Nahrain is a region between the Tigris and the Euphrates, never was a country. No one's better than anyone. Why should we get a country and not the Kurds. First of all they outnumber us. Good luck aranging that. That is no way to win anyone's support. The only thing one can do is try to undo the injustices of the past and try to prevent them in the future. People like you are one of the reasons we have no nation. No Beth Nahrain, No Assyria, and No Aram. Syria has become Arabized to the point of no return as has Lebanon. You're such a propenent of Syriacism. Syriac means Assyrian, why don't you call yourself Aramean. That was "Aram." Aram was NEVER a country or empire. It was always a dominion of some great empire. It simply meant "Highland." It was another name for Assyria (Ashur). Yes the inhabitants may have originally been Aramean but they were Assyrianized just as most "Syriacs" have been Arabized. But everyone wanted to be Assyro-Babylonian. That was the New York/Rome/London of the Ancient World. Just as people become Americanized in America totally losing touch with their ancient herritage so did the ancient world. Nationality/Ethnicity/Religion is ultimately superficial. It can be changed at anytime. Fighting amongst these different names does no one any gain. We should simply unite as Indegenous Middle Eastern or Southwest Asian Christians so as to incorporate a wider demographic such as non semetic Christians like the Egyptians and Ethiopians. Power is in numbers.
Dear friend, eventhough your amitions are high by in first hand giving your land to those who killed you forfathers and now proclaiming your land, and you say that it is for the sake of the independence of your own pepole. I dont see how, arabs have ruled the land now for about 70 (modern states), how much did you get from them, and how much do you think you will get from the kurds? have you now insight about the kurdish agenda? do you not see that when kurds dont allow assyrians to vote in the iraq elections, dont you see that as a voilation. yes it is you friend kurds who do this, do you think that they would even think about letting you have a independent state if they are neighburs with you. they couldnt be frendly neighburs when they didnt have a country. Actually im thinking of starting a new box that says against dangerous ideology like yours.
Michael 10:22, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Please check out the Final Declaration of the foundation convention of the European Syriac Union, representing the following organisations:
-- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 18:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
"I hope that people understand that syriac/syrian isnt wrong but rather a unifying name from the maronites-melkites to the assyrians-chaldeans " But you said Syriac is a ethnic group? I fully agree with what you just said; Syriac is used to unify the maronites/assyrians/chaldeans, but in diaspora. This term is not used in politics to unite any group, rather this new term of Chaldoassyrian, is what is used now in Iraq. Chaldean 01:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Michael 09:32, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
User_talk:Sargonious#I.27ve_devised_a_Romanized_Assyrian_Alphabet.
You could translate directly from Syriac script with ease.
eg. Marun Jšui Mšjxa mere:
O d'la etle xţjta maxe/patel kepa qamaja.
Sj maxa Catana!
Alahj, Alahj, La ma šabaqt anj?
What's disputed?
There is --as far as I know-- no reliable evidence that the majority of the Suryoye/Suryaye call themselves "Assyrians", as was stated in a previous version. Provide with some evidence please! -- Benne ['bɛnə] ( talk) 00:20, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Chaldean 01:07, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
please answers bennes question, prove that the suryoyo people calls themselves assyrians, what the iraqi suryoye call themsleves cannot be applied to the whole population. Actually that is the biggest problems with iraqis they have a very narrowed sight about the suryoyo people. and by you stating that 95% voted for assyrian party is a lie, we know that many of them support the kurds and voted for kurdish parties and and we also know that the so called "chaldeans" didnt even get to vote in northern iraq because of the kurds.
It is wrong to think that assyrian ideology is based in iraq, the assyrianists consider as far as maronites as their people. [not nestorian assyrians but orthodox assyrians]. the problem with assyrians is that they arent united within, there are several political camps and many of the arent even working togeather, some of them work with the kurds agains their own people.
And for you to answer benne correctly then you must have some sort of information about what the suryoyo people calles it self in syria, lebanon,turkey. And ofcourse in the diaspora. and again dont apply church denomition [syrian, chaldean,assyrian church] as a name for the whole people.
Again I would appreciate if someone could give a solid answer and not just fictional replys.
best regards Michael 10:06, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
"revert: indigenous to whom? It does not mean 'Christian' in anything but a far from literal interpretation" Dont know if you know this, but the word for Christian in our langauge is Suraya Chaldean 02:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Chaldean, I know you're going to get mad at me for this, but let me explain myself.
According to this article, the Syriacs includes the Arameans, Assyrians/Chaldeans AND the Maronites. Just redirecting this page into one of these groups would be inaccurate. I disagree with Benne going around changing all references to Assyrians with Syriacs, but I think that this article deserves to exist, despite what Pylambert says. -- Khoikhoi 03:12, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
For the time being, the Assyrian people article will be about all Neo-Aramaic-speaking people, and all other articles, including this, will be redirects to it. It is an impossible task to reach consensus with thesubject matter spread over several articles. We can suggest new names for this one article, but we'll keep it one article until then. This is going back to a redirect. — Gareth Hughes 11:12, 16 February 2006 (UTC)