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I seem to recall that Ratz’ edition claimed that the Scherzo‐Andante order he claimed was based, not only on Alma Mahler’s statements about her husband’s intentions, but on the relation of the keys — C minor (opening the finale transitionally, in a way) being closer to the end of the Andante than it is to the A minor drumbeats that end the Scherzo. Of course, the scherzo — andante leap is a tritone no matter what, but that was, I seem to recall, one of his points also. ?!?? Schissel‐ bowl listen 21:31, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
I don't know what Ratz says, but it is true that the transition from the Andante to the Finale is closer in key relationship than from the Scherzo to the Finale. However, since Mahler is known to have performed the work with Andante second, I don't know why this should be seen as a point on either side of the argument. Who's to say Mahler didn't on reflection prefer more distant key relationships? -- Tdent 20:31, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Isn't it normally performed with the Andante third? I've always thoought (and these may be misguided musings!) that the structural relationship between the first three movements of Mahler's sixth (with the Andante third) is similar to that in Beethoven's ninth.-- Nmcmurdo 14:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
The information about the order of movements seems a little unequivocal. Jeffrey Katz is quoted (in favour of Andante-Scherzo) but Henry-Louis de la Grange (in favour of Scherzo-Andante) is not. Moreoever de la Grange asserts that in the 1907 Viennese premiere Mahler reverted to Scherzo-Andante, a point which Katz ignores. It seems to me this section should only report the debate, and that the most recent Critical Edition is Andante-Scherzo. But as it stands it seems a little one-sided.-- 62.239.159.6 15:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
The "Structure" section gives Scherzo-Andante, while the "Composition" section gives Andante-Scherzo. They should probably be made consistent. Sho Uemura 14:39, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
The article says that the movement order question remains "hotly debated". However, in the July 2011 issue of the British magazine Gramophone, critic Edward Seckerson upholds the Scherzo-Andante order, saying that "We now know that Mahler did revert to the original order" (pg. 59). He doesn't explain how this came to be "known", though. Any information about this ? MUSIKVEREIN ( talk) 16:06, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, I listened to the symphony, and I swore I could hear a guitar in there somewhere, but the orchestration as it's written on this page doesn't say there's a guitar in there anywhere. So now I'm stumped. I swear there's a guitar in there, but I'm not sure if I should add it into the page, as I don't have a source. Thoughts? -- Kschwerdt514 20:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Unless my ears deceive me, isn't there a xylophone featured in the first movement?-- Gruesome Pet 15.25 18 June (UTC)
First, I would think there should be more discussion of the question of the deleted third hammer blow, even if there seems to be a good deal less controversy over that than over the order of the middle movements.
Second, a propos the whole issue of how to get them to sound in performance, David Zinman, when he performed this work in Baltimore, spoke of his solution to the balance and acoustical problems. He got one of his sons to create the effect on a synthesizer, which was then played over the sound system in the hall. The sight of the percussionist raising the sledgehammer and bringing it down on a wooden platform was at least as much a visual effect as a sonic one.
Finally, in the name of full disclosure, I have never warmed to this symphony very much. -- Wspencer11 (talk to me...) 15:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
"The One with the Big Scary Hammer"... My name is Tubist1996... I am a Mahler scholar... I took out this section in the first sentence of the first paragraph because this symphony is not referred to in any serious work of scholarship as "The One with the Big Scary Hammer". This is false information and it does not belong in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tubist1996 ( talk • contribs) 07:05, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Do you really think than because the American... and Canadian... say, it is not the most popular, Is that really relevant? what about Europe, France, England —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.6.250.69 ( talk) 22:24, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Despite this article placing Dmitri Mitropoulos firmly in the "Andante/Scherzo" camp, I have at least two recordings of him conducting this Scherzo/Andante. Here is an entry for one of them on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphonies-Nos-10-Unfinished/dp/B000009CO7/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391681568&sr=8-1&keywords=Mitropoulos+mahler
As you can see from the track listings, the order is Scherzo/Andante.
2601:9:2780:1E3:221:E9FF:FEE0:8C3C ( talk) 10:15, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
I propose that this section be confined simply to recordings, which are much less trouble (and bandwidth) to document. If the article tries to capture all performances with the inner movements in either order, the article will evolve into a laundry list of performances and become unmanageable. Thoughts are welcome. Thanks, DJRafe ( talk) 14:34, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree entirely with the above suggestion, but I would like to see some sort of dated chronology in the list. In view of the controversy over the order of the inner movements, it's surely of interest that the first recording, under F Charles Adler, who did actually work with Mahler himself,though apparently not on performances of the Sixth, places the Andante second - as did Mahler himself. It's of more than passing interest that neither van Beinum, nor Flipse, both of whom must have known of Mengelberg's practice in 1919 (how often did he perform the work on other occasions?) didn't follow it. 81.153.23.168 ( talk) 11:48, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
Is it possible that Mahler's rescoring of Schumann's Manfred Overture - and the Symphonies (not easy to find dates for these) - occurred during the period on which he was evolving the Sixth Symphony? 81.158.101.97 ( talk) 10:03, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
On the English translation of Alban Berg's quote about Mahler's Symphony No 6, whilst I realise that "despite" is a more literally accurate translation of the German word 'trotz', Berg's overall sentiment does not lend itself to use of the word "despite". At the risk of stating the very obvious, Berg clearly meant to say that for him, the Sixth Symphony in all of what we now call 'classical music' is Mahler's, except that this would be to ignore Beethoven's Sixth Symphony. Other ways of paraphrasing Berg's quote in English, to capture this sentiment, would be:
The English word "despite" has a more dismissive air about it, and, to my mind, is not what Berg meant with respect to Beethoven. Cheers, DJRafe ( talk) 17:33, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Really, is it necessary to list the four movements twice rather than simply say the middle two are flipped??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:643:8104:730:9D1B:2F91:C159:98D7 ( talk) 07:12, 24 March 2019 (UTC)