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I have been a member of the State Bar of California -- that is, a practicing lawyer -- since 1976. During that time, I have been actively involved as a participant in the State Bar, and I have also been involved in many debates about the State Bar in professional organizations. My criticisms about the main article are based on these experiences. I am not citing documentary sources, but I will do so later. The issues I see are as follows:
1. In my opinion and experience, the State Bar is, on the whole, a very controversial organization among practicing California lawyers. The main article does mention a very important controversy, namely the time that Governor Pete Wilson (who had flunked the California Bar Exam four times before passing it) effectively put the State Bar out of business for a few years. The article does not mention a poll which the State Bar was forced to take of its members, after legislation was passed by then-State Senator (later Superior Court Judge) Quentin Kopp, a vocal State Bar critic. The poll, taken around 1990, showed that about one-third of State Bar members favored abolition of the State Bar; as to the most frequently stated reasons why, see below. By the way, I voted not to abolish the State Bar (see below).
2. Contrary to the main article, most states do NOT have "integrated" bars, like California. In fact California is among a very small minority of states which do. I believe the exact number is no more than five. In most states, there is a divided system, by which the state issues licenses and disciplines lawyers, but all other functions are taken up by voluntary bar associations. As a result, bar dues in most states are much lower than in California (even after state-mandated reductions in dues, as a result of this controversy). Many California lawyers maintain that the State Bar is effectively controlled by small cliques of establishment lawyers, which in turn control lawyer discipline. These are the main reasons that a third of all California lawyers voted to abolish the State Bar.
3. To me the main article clearly seems to express a pro-State Bar bias. Although it has a somewhat objectve tone, it simply ignores the controversies I've mentioned, and many others which I don't have time to mention now. It also doesn't mention the long-term effect which these controversies have had. Among them, the caption on the shiny photo of the State Bar's current offices doesn't mention that the State Bar was forced to sell its traditional office building at Franklin and MacAllister in San Fran. because it ran out of money. That building was then purchased by the San Francisco Unified School District, which now uses it for office space. One would think that any objective "history" of the State Bar would mention this.
Another very important event was the abolition of the Conference of Delegates of the State Bar during the Pete Wilson controversy. This volunteer group, which represented lawyers from the entire state, was constantly passing resolutions for controversial legislation which many lawyers did not like. It was not re-established after Gray Davis restored funding of the State Bar.
4. I could go much further, but I won't now. I will mention that I voted against abolishing the State Bar because I thought the proposal was too drastic. The State Bar needs reform, not abolition.
In sum: I think that major parts of the article are not accurate. Piedmtbill ( talk) 00:35, 16 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piedmtbill ( talk • contribs) 00:23, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree, he can cite to the criticisms later. Just because he is discussing it here doesn't mean he can't add to the article later. There is now a section on public criticisms of the State Bar. Looks like we have a consensus. 2.177.99.84 ( talk) 19:41, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
I am reverting all those changes for the following reasons:
1. Grammar errors. Various omissions of "a," "of," and "the." Hyphens are frequently used where em dashes would be more appropriate.
2. Dialect errors. This is an article about an American public corporation and it was originally drafted in American English. To prevent revert wars, it should stay in American English. Furthermore, the citations are in the wrong style.
3. Stylistic errors. This is an encyclopedia for the general public, not for lawyers. If the public wants incredibly boring detail written in legalese, they can always go to the State Bar's Web site. The article should be concise, to the point, and accessible to the average layperson. Otherwise we end up with horribly unreadable laundry list articles like e-commerce. There is also severe overuse of the passive voice. Lawyers today are trained to write in the active voice so that they are clear, direct, and assertive.
4. Geographic errors. The reference to "this state" is too U.S-centered, especially in light of the fact that Wikipedia is intended for a global audience.
4. Failure to cite sources for bizarre assertions like the quote about "When the ABA speaks, California does not listen."
5. Just dumb errors. New York uses the ABA Model Code of Professional Responsibility while Washington State uses the ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct. I found this out with a 2 minute search on Google.
Whomever our anonymous visitor is, I hope he or she is not licensed to practice in the state of California. If so, it sounds like we need to toughen up our bar exam! -- Coolcaesar 07:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Today I deleted the following passage:
California State Bar Law Office Study Program
The California State Bar Law Office Study Program allows California residents to become California Attorneys with no law school, or college, assuming they meet basic educational requirements. If the candidate has no college, he or she may take and pass the CLEP, or College Level Examination Program [ [3]]. The Bar candidate must study under a judge or lawyer for four years and must also pass the Baby Bar within three administrations after first becoming eligible to take the examination. California Attorney, Michael P. Ehline, [ [4]] http://passthebarandbabybar.blogspot.com/ is one of only a few known attorneys on the Law Office Study Program to take and pass the CLEP. Ehline went on the Law Office Study Program and passed the California First Year Law Students Exam (Baby Bar), while on the California State Bar Law Office Study Program. Ehline passed the General Bar Exam and became a practicing attorney with no JD. Attorney Ehline claims all it takes is desire and hard work if you want to become a lawyer in the traditional way.
Therefore, you can become a lawyer in California the traditional way (Law Office Study), or by going to law school. But you must first pass the Baby Bar.
The above was deleted because it violates the Wikipedia policy of no self-promotion (Section 1.4.2 of Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not) as well as the Wikipedia:Notability guideline. Mr. Ehline is not notable, and the Law Office Study Program is so rarely used that it does not merit an entire paragraph within what is already becoming a ridiculously long section of an article that is supposed to be about the State Bar, not the California Bar Exam.-- Coolcaesar 07:59, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
First I note that the section has been removed by a person claiming to be a lawyer who attended traditional law school claiming study of law in a law office is "insignificant." The Law Office Study Program is the only available program that will enable those without money or higher education to become attorneys in California. Saying it is "insignificant" defeats the intent of this article and suppresses valuable information. Attorney Ehline is a public figure and is notorious under the Wikipedia guidelines. [ [5]] Ehline has articles about him in the LA Daily Journal as well as an instruction blog on becoming an attorney with no law school or college. [ [6]] [ [7]] A single paragraph is insignificant when compared to the value of the content to those who don't have the education or resources the censor of the article apparrently had. ]]
See also Wikipedia:Importance, which attempts to be a generic, all inclusive definition of criteria for inclusion.
The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.
This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, magazine articles, books, scholarly papers, and television documentaries except for the following: Media reprints of the person's autobiography or self-promotional works; Works carrying merely trivial coverage, such as newspaper articles that just mention the person in passing, telephone directory listings, or simple records of births and deaths.
Here, there are two independent sources about Ehline, Paul Pfau, Cal Bar Tutorial Web Page, and the Los Angeles Daily Journal Article, which are not press releases. The sources do not mention Attorney Ehline in passing and instead are about him and how he became an attorney on the Law Office Study Program. Furthermore, Ehline is not selling anything. Ehline is an attorney not engaged in the bar review or law school business. It would be great if the censor would recognize the fact that the single paragraph meets or exceeds the guidelines.
Although the article is about the Bar, the Bar exam is inseparable. Perhaps we should do a wiki on Law Office Study? If not, the single paragraph is a high value paragraph.
If not let's take it to an admin. With Resepect.
Your insults are not well taken. Threatening to have me banned is a violation of the rules. Ehline has an article published about him a reputable Los Angeles Daily Journal Article and another independent article from Cal Bar Tutorial Review. The Daily Journal Article on his site is an exact duplicate of the original (use your eyes instead of saying it "raises doubt") (multiple sources) I respect that you went to traditional law school, but it does not give you the right to be a thought policeman and claim that the law office study is meager or insignificant.
Rather than continue threatening me and erasing valuable material, I recc we take this to a moderator to settle this once and for all! Respectfully and until then: You must not: Attempt to hold a debate on this page. Discussions take place after acceptance, not before: There is no need for, desire to read, or acceptance of lengthy debates on the merit of mediation. If you wish to debate on whether to mediate, do it on the article's talk page, not here. Move or remove any content under any circumstances. Content removal is restricted to members of the Mediation Committee.
I further note that I did remove the blog so your argument about blogs was improper because it had been removed.
Coolcesar please sign themediation request and stop censoring the page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/State_Bar_of_California
:One, you were insulting the study of law in a law office, claiming it is insignificant and meager. That is not your job and it insults every person who is poor or otherwise cannot afford law school, or simply who does not have the educational background to be accepted into law school. What amazes me is that you, an attorney, waste so much time trying to impose your will upon people's thoughts and opinions. Shouldn't you be working on cases?
Two: Ehline is one of only 64 people to have achieved becoming an attorney on the law office study program. That in and of itself makes him notable. I have not found much information about anyone else who also has a published article in an official Daily Journal Article. [ [8]]
Ehline did not charge me for information on this program.
I attempted to reason with you and you ignored my requests and continually denigrated the program and deleted the posts after I asked for arbitration - all in violation of Wiki guidelines.
I still would like to resolve this issue with you without arbitration. Is there a way we can change the paragraph to satisfy your need to censor?
Respectfully
I noticed your dispute through a comment Coolcaesar made on the Anaheim Hills talk page. As a young lawyer myself, I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
It seems to me that the section on this alternative path to bar admission is worthwhile, if only because it's so unusual (I'm fairly certain that my own state, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, doesn't have any similar options). That being said, I don't see any reason why there's a need to mention a particular individual who used this path to become an attorney. While this particular path to admission may be noteworthy, the individuals who take advantage of it are not. Additionally, the quote at the end has no business being in an encyclopedia.
Although I know this is in mediation, I'm going to try and edit the paragraph. If either you think it doesn't work, feel free to revert it, and I won't say anything further. JCO312 15:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree, so I removed the name. But I left in the Daily Journal Article becuase there is simply not a lot of information avaiable about the program. I further note I will seek to have any person banned who further alters the article, as there is a pending arbitration and the post "shall" not be altered when that happens. Thanks.
I have read through this entire section twice now and have not found a single, solitary statement by Coolcaesar indicating that this program is "insignificant" or "meager". This is the claim made by the unnamed individual who seems to have some vested interest in leaving mention of Mr. Ehline in the article. Personally, I find absolutely no value in mentioning this particular attorney in the article. It does absolutely nothing to enhance or add to my understanding of the State Bar of California, or this particular program. Perhaps a mention that a certain, limited number of individuals have ever succeeded in being admitted through this program enhances the article, but mention of this or any other individual does not. I find the tone of the unnamed individual's email to be somewhat odd, considering the intended nature of Wikipedia. Threatening. Argumentative. I read with much interest the information regard this program. As a California attorney, I have personally been in discussions on a number of occasions with both attorneys and non-attorneys where this subject has come up. I knew that there was some historical basis for admitting attorneys to the bar who had not attended a formal law school. I did not know whether the practice still existed or how it worked. Now I do. Again, whoever the unnamed individual is here, he has entirely and suspiciously misquoted Coolcaesar and has attributed to him language ("insignificant"; "meager") which he has never made. I see absolutely nothing in any of the posts from Coolcaesar which even comes close to disparaging admission to the bar through this program, or promotes law school attendance as a better route. I challenge anyone reading this to go back and confirm what I am saying here. - Kahanamoko Kahanamoko 06:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed the following passages today:
Passage 1:
Well known, however, is the story of Maxcy Filer, who took the Bar examination twice a year for almost 25 years before passing on the 48th attempt in February 1991 [1] As of 24 October 2007, Mr Filer is still practicing law. [2]
Passage 2:
While predictions circulate regarding which of the subjects will be tested on the essay portion of the examination, only one subject has consistently made its appearance on the essay portion of the examination during its past 15 administrations: Professional Responsibility. Interestingly, although one of the two Performance Tests on the July 2007 exam dealt with Professional Responsibility, none of the six essays covered this topic.
Passage 3:
(n.b., the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico both have lower pass rates -- however, the applicant test pools in these jurisdictions are atypical, due to local admission rules which makes comparisons with the other bar exams administered in the 50 states meaningless).
All three passages violate Wikipedia:Notability in and of themselves. Passages two and three rely heavily on weasel words (a key sign of unreliability) and also violate core policy Wikipedia:No original research, in that they attempt a new synthesis of information that itself is not first published in a reliable source. In turn, they also violate Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. All three passages have a sharply different tone from the rest of the article, apparently because they were written by someone who has not received proper academic training in composing formal written English. Such training is required of all University of California graduates through the Reading & Composition credit requirement (which leads me to suspect that the writer is either not a UC graduate or barely passed their R&C courses). Finally, passage one is improperly sourced—the citations are cruder then those seen in most blogs. If anyone countermands these deletions without responding to these issues, I will be happy to countermand their reinsertions. Any questions? -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 06:20, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I really need help on how to file a complaint my present attorney who has not done a damn thing for my case until it was to late for me to hire another attorney. How would I get a complaint form so I can try to correct the mess that this attorney has done to me?
Please help —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.102.250.155 (
talk) 06:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
References
Lawyerdude inserted some bizarre, extremely poor quality text out of compliance with the Wikipedia Manual of Style (excessive use of headings and subheadings) and with all core Wikipedia policies including neutral point of view, verifiability, no original research, and what Wikipedia is not. His summary of the Birbrower decision is just plain wrong (as well as poorly written) and would get a well-deserved F in any top-tier law school's Lawyering Skills course. The Birbrower opinion by Justice Ming Chin clearly held (at 17 Cal.4th 135) that the out-of-state firm had performed the unauthorized practice of law in California and its fee agreement was unenforceable to the extent that it reflected fees for work improperly performed in this state. -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 10:31, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Entirely inappropriate is the reference to bar difficulty b/c it makes this article too POV-ey. Removed/simplified to clean the article up and to make it conform to Wiki standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ngfrazier ( talk • contribs) 23:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Just caught a subtle deletion on 8 January 2011 of a passage which included a quote I had inserted. I'm fixing this.
Of course, the losers who fail the exam may find Professor Little's derogatory reference to them as hacks offensive, but that's their problem for thinking they could become lawyers without first confirming whether they have the aptitude to become one.-- Coolcaesar ( talk) 14:46, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Where do they find the people who work at the State Bar itself? It seems that more attention needs to be focused on the employees there instead of who passes or fails the Bar exam. No matter what amount of evidence a complaining party submits to the Bar in an attorney complaint, the "employees" deny it. Now they have the Second Look appellate review department, but it doesn't change anything. They can stare at complaint evidence for years in Sixth and Seventh Look appeals, but they still won't see what they don't want to. It's really true, complaining to the State Bar about attorney malfeasance is just like complaining to an Internal Affairs department of your local police station. It's not a waste of time, it's a waste of taxpayer's money giving these slackers jobs.
This is not an "off-topic complaint." This is the talk page, not the article itself. This is for discussion, and this remark is not related to any other discussion addressed on this page. It doesn't have to be.
This is a great point. A quote has been included, someone (probably from the Bar itself) keeps deleting it.
2.177.99.84 (
talk) 19:38, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
I am not a fan of the term "illegal alien" even though it is utilized a fair amount by the media. The correct legal verbiage is "undocumented" per most courts and USCIS, but I digress. I added a section on the news of the historic admission of Sergio Garcia (who attended college, law school, and passed the, notoriously difficult, bar exam). The California Supreme Court still heard the case on his admission, even though the legislature had passed a law, signed by Governor Brown, to admit those who do not hold correct documentation as immigrants. The law should have made the decision moot, however the court still took it up. Garcia still faces challenges as, being undocumented, it is a violation of federal law for him to engage in the practice of law. However, the case and the statute, plus the decision of the State Bar to admit him are historic and may well impact decisions in other states. There is currently a case pending in Florida. BerkeleyLaw1979 01:24, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Recently an IP user has been making some edits that are questionable. They have added unreliable sources, out of context sources, and sources that have nothing to do with the bar to a section on criticism. In an attempt to appease them I researched and found some reliable sources and created a credible criticism section lower in the article. Apparently they weren't happy and decided to keep on reverting my edits and now the page is in their version. Since Wikipedia guidelines call for it, I am discussing this on this talk page, my talk page, and their talk page (although they have changed IP addresses). If you have any thoughts please chime in. SantiLak ( talk) 19:47, 1 September 2014 (UTC)
EDITING STANDARD - Wikipedia's standard for Due Weight & Undue Weight requires inclusion of: "viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources."
(1) A California Court of Appeal criticized the California State Bar in a published decision: The Court, in its opinion, stated that the Bar is limited to State licensing matters and censured the Bar for trying to encroach upon Federal licensing. What is included in the article is a direct quote from the court in its published opinion. Wikipedia requires "viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources." A judicial opinion is a reliable source. Here the court is telling the Bar that it is a State institution and that it cannot tell the Federal court who it can admit as a practitioner.
(2) Quotations from the State Bar criticizing itself, with a citation to the State Bar's official letter, are included. The quotations are from an official publication by the State Bar criticizing itself and well-within Wikipedia's rules that it be a "viewpoint that has been published by reliable sources." In that letter, the President of the State Bar says, "For years, [the California State Bar] has carried an enormous backlog ...averaging some 1,600–1,900 uncompleted investigations .... Any backlog -- much less one of this magnitude -- undermines our credibility with the public ...."
(3) There is a quotation from an attorneys' association noting that the Bar's judges "are not judges elected by the public," the Bar's "governors are not elected by the public," and that the Bar's court "is not the public court, but their own internal court." Wikipedia's rules give the example that if someone wanted to include the "flat earth" theory on an article about "the earth," it should not be included because "numerous countervailing citations state that the earth is round." The editor challenging the quote about the Bar has not given 1 countervailing citation showing that the Bar's judges and governors are in fact elected by the public. If he did that, the editing dispute would be over. To equate the inclusion of the quote about the Bar with the "flat earth" theory, as used in Wikipedia's own rule, is just stretching the bounds of realism. The reality of the situation is that the State Bar's judges are unelected; and the State Bar's governors are unelected. How hard would it be for someone challenging these quotes as a 'fringe theory' to cite to a single public election of a State Bar judge or governor? It would not be hard at all. The editor challenging the quote can put a citation on the talk page showing the Bar's judges and governors are elected by the general public, and he would prevail easily in striking the quote as an outlandish fringe theory.
SUMMARY: The editor challenging the inclusion of these quotations has not once rewritten the section on this talk page to show how it can be made better. What he has done is he has deleted the section 10 times in less than 24 hours, which means only one thing when an editor removes properly sourced material like quotes about the State Bar from the California courts, such as this one:
"The [State Bar] Act does not regulate practice before United States courts." (Birbrower, supra, 17 Cal.4th at p. 130.) Rather, "[t]he State Bar Act and other statutes enacted for the purpose of regulating the practice of law in this state are applicable to our state courts only." (In re McCue (1930) 211 Cal. 57, 66.). — Benninghoff v. Superior Court (State Bar of California) (2006) 136 CA4th 61.
When you see the wholesale removal of quotes from sourced materials (a published judicial decision), you can be certain that someone is trying to sanitize sourced criticisms of the Bar from reliable sources; the Bar is a public entity and exempt from Wikipedia's more heightened standard against unsourced criticisms of living individuals.
You will see above, the person that deleted entire section 10 times in less than 24 hours, claims "I think there should be criticism section, just not the way they wrote it." What does that mean? And has he submitted a single rewritten draft of that section here for people to determine that another way of writing the section is better? Nope. He has deleted the entire section 10 times in less than 24 hours. See August 30-31, 2014, SantiLak deleting entire section 10 times: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=State_Bar_of_California&action=history
2.177.99.84 ( talk) 19:10, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
2.177.99.84 ( talk) 18:24, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
1. Does not violate the original research rule - Quotes are from a published judicial decision:
“Wikipedia Rule: The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to ideas—for which no published sources exist.”
They're quotes from a court case, clearly identified as such.
2. Does not violate the Undue Weight rule:
“Wikipedia Rule: An article on the Earth does not directly mention modern support for the Flat Earth concept, the view of a distinct minority; to do so would give undue weight to it because there are numerous countervailing citations showing that the Flat Earth concept is a fringe theory. To show that a citation is a fringe theory, countervailing citations showing it as such must be produced.” Requires "countervailing citations" and subsequent discussion and consensus specifically debunking the quote.
3. Criticisms of a public government entity do not raise to the level of criticisms against a private individual.
4. A judicial opinion is a primary source:
“Wikipedia Rule: Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.177.170.75 ( talk) 16:37, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Since this IP editor has returned again in the spirit of wikipedia I am going to try once again to engage in rational discussion with them. For now I will not be editing because they have some sort of vendetta against me and I don't want to deal with what they will throw at me. A little over a month ago Coolcaesar and I discussed it and then they removed it. I invited that editor multiple times to come and continue the discussion but there was no response. Now they have returned and they have reverted edits by other users, specifically Srich32977 and Ravensfire without explanation which as we know, is reserved for vandalism. I am starting this thread in the talk page to try and discuss with them their edits. Please comment below. - SantiLak ( talk) 20:03, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
California State Bar in Turmoil After Shake-up Triggers Whistleblower Claim Wall Street Journal (blog) - Nov 14, 2014 The California State Bar was thrown into turmoil this week after its ousted executive director struck back with retaliation claims alleging that he was fired for complaining about ethical breaches inside the organization. Joseph Dunn, a Democratic former ... California State Bar Fires Back At Joe Dunn's Version Of His Sensational ... OC Weekly (blog) - Nov 15, 2014 The California State Bar issued a statement this afternoon defending its Nov. 7 firing of former Orange County state Senator Joe Dunn as executive director and claiming Dunn's lawsuit response depicting himself as an abused whistleblower is "bewildering.". Joe Dunn, Ex-Orange County State Senator, Fired From California State Bar OC Weekly (blog) - Nov 13, 2014 Fired in recent days as executive director of the California State Bar, former Orange County state Senator Joe Dunn has filed a lawsuit claiming his ouster was retaliation for his whistle-blower revelations concerning "egregious improprieties" within the ...
Former Sen. Joe Dunn sues California Bar for firing him Sacramento Bee - Nov 13, 2014 Former Democratic state Sen. Joe Dunn is suing his former employer, the State Bar of California, alleging that the bar's board wrongfully fired him as executive director after he reported illegal activities and ethical breaches by high-ranking officials in the ... Fired California Bar official files whistle-blower suit against group Reuters - Nov 14, 2014 (Reuters) - The fired executive director of the State Bar of California filed a whistle-blower lawsuit against the organization on Thursday the same day that his termination was announced, according to a court document. Joseph Dunn, a former State Senator ...
Fired State Bar Director Fights Back in Whistleblower Suit The Recorder - Nov 13, 2014 SACRAMENTO — Hours after his termination was announced, fired California State Bar executive director Joe Dunn filed suit Thursday afternoon, alleging that he was canned after alerting the bar to “serious ethical breaches” among top leaders. Fired California bar official said he tried to expose wrongdoing Los Angeles Times - Nov 13, 2014 Joseph Dunn, a former state senator from Orange County, ran the bar from 2010 until last week, when he said he was fired without explanation. The bar announced his departure Thursday, shortly before Dunn filed his suit in Los Angeles Superior Court.
Former executive sues State Bar over alleged whistleblower retaliation MyNewsLA.com - Nov 13, 2014 The former executive of the State Bar sued his former employer Thursday, alleging in a whistleblower complaint he was fired for exposing ethical breaches within the agency responsible for the oversight of the state's attorneys. Joseph Dunn, a former state ... Sen. Dunn Files Whistleblower Action Against California State Bar Courthouse News Service - Nov 13, 2014 Rather than hold Ms. Kim and the OCTC accountable for its actions as Senator Dunn encouraged, the State Bar has terminated Senator Dunn and taken adverse actions against other whistleblowers for bringing this issue to their attention," said the complaint. Joe Dunn Abruptly Fired By CA Bar, Files Whistleblower Lawsuit VoiceofOC - Nov 14, 2014 Former Democratic State Senator Joe Dunn has been fired by the California State Bar as executive director, just as he files a whistleblower lawsuit against the bar alleging that top officials ousted him because he tried to expose "egregious improprieties," ... Former director sues California bar association U-T San Diego - Nov 16, 2014 SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — The former executive director of the State Bar of California has sued the group that certifies state lawyers, claiming he was fired after complaining of ethical breaches by bar officials. Joe Dunn, a former Democratic state senator ... Dunn Out as Executive Director of State Bar, Files Suit Metropolitan News-Enterprise - Nov 14, 2014 “The State Bar of California announced today that the employment of State Bar Executive Director Joseph Dunn will end upon the expiration of a 30-day notice pursuant to his employment contract. Dunn is no longer acting as executive director, and the State ... Shakeup at state bar association leads to lawsuit KTVN - Nov 14, 2014 SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - The former executive director of The State Bar of California says he was fired after he complained of ethical breaches by association officials. Joe Dunn, a former Democratic state senator from Orange County, led the association ... Fired Calif. Bar Director Blows Whistle On Ethics Breaches Law360 (subscription) - Nov 13, 2014 Law360, Los Angeles (November 13, 2014, 10:03 PM ET) -- Fired California State Bar executive director Joseph Dunn sued his former employers in state court on Thursday, alleging he was terminated for exposing the bar's “massive cover-up” of ethics ...
I've moved the Timothy Sandefur blog material. While Sandefur is an attorney and author, his self-published criticism of State Bar billing practices goes beyond his area of expertise. He is contending that his State Bar dues statement constitutes unfair billing, and he basically admits that he cannot contest the billing practice when he asks that some other lawyer file a class action suit. But as an intelligent and perceptive lawyer he has figured out what the issues are when looking at his bill. That is, he (like most other lawyers) reads the bill and decides what funds he wants to donate to. Perhaps he can't find a class action lawyer to file suit because he's done some extra research and discovered how much money these "extra" fees generate for the various worthy and non-worthy causes. And perhaps he's discovered that other attorneys generally support these additional billing items. Another reason Sandefu's comments are not WP:RS is the fact that he is discussing his bar fee bill in particular (as an exemplar of all bar fee bills). This, ironically, puts him in a conflict of interest situation because he is saying "I'm looking at my bar fee statement and I think/realize I'm being subjected to 'unfair or fraudulent business practices, or unfair, deceptive or misleading advertising' practices." To compare, if he had studied the billing practices of the other states and had published the results of his studies, then it might be proper to say he was a reliable source as to this subject. As it stands, Sandefur is but one California attorney who has used his blog to complain. His complaint is not an encyclopedic one. – S. Rich ( talk) 17:18, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
There are two reasons for removing this piece. 1. It is not a discussion about admission practices for first-time lawyers. 2. It is focused on a decision by the California Supreme Court, as the ultimate authority over California lawyers (and not the State Bar in general) about one particular person. The Slate piece may be appropriate for Stephen_Glass#Unsuccessful_California_bar_application. It is not appropriate in this article. – S. Rich ( talk) 17:38, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
As can be seen, the material about Dunn has been revised and placed into a new section. In keeping with WP policies about WP:BALANCE, both sides of the story are presented. Also, the references supporting the material have been provided in proper citation format. I hope (and expect) that IP editors (mentioned above) will be satisfied with these edits and pick up a few pointers about how WP is properly edited. – S. Rich ( talk) 01:46, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
The first paragraph of this article would be much more accurately voiced if it read as follows:
"The State Bar of California, established 1927, was one of the nation’s first unified legal bars. As a unified bar, it is a state government agency that also operates as a mandatory bar association. Only active members of the State Bar may practice law in California. The State Bar manages the admission and discipline of attorneys, including the administration of the California Bar Exam and the investigation of complaints from the public of professional misconduct. Funding is provided by examination fees and by member dues authorized by the California Legislature in the annual State Bar Member Dues Bill, which must be signed into law by the Governor. The State Bar of California operates as an agency of the Supreme Court of California but its immediate oversight is exercised by a board of 19 trustees – 6 elected by district, by and from the membership of the State Bar; 5 members of the State Bar appointed by the California Supreme Court; 2 members of the State Bar and 2 members of the general public appointed by officers of the California Legislature; and 4 members of the general public appointed by the Governor of California."
The source of the above information is the State Bar’s website at this URL: http://www.calbar.ca.gov/AboutUs/StateBarOverview.aspx
The term “official bar association” is not an accurate description because unified bars are state government agencies whose operations include many functions exercised by bar associations – but as state government agencies, they cannot perform all of the functions that a private bar association can perform, because they operate solely on the public purse (or California's unified bar can only operate with funds authorized by the state legislature). When a member of any unified bar pays member dues to that state bar, s/he is actually paying fees to a government agency.
I notice the article has section on the controversial firing of Joe Dunn. You might also want to include a section about the State Bar’s funding crisis back in 1998. Governor Pete Wilson vetoed the State Bar Member Dues Bill and the Legislature was not able to override the veto, with the result the State Bar could not collect any member dues that year and had to cease many operations for a time. Bar admissions continued because the fees for examinations and admission costs are authorized by separate legislation.
Here is a link to a letter Robert Fellmeth wrote to Governor Wilson in 1998 at the height of the crisis, which provides information on that controversy – which was much more important than Joe Dunn getting the boot: http://www.cpil.org/download/State_Bar_Funding_Crisis.pdf.
73.162.218.153 ( talk) 17:20, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
It needs to be rewritten to reflect the fact that the bar has been essentially deunified and reduced to an attorney licensing agency--the ABA Journal just ran an article on this. Unfortunately, I have way too many other priorities in line ahead of this right now. -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 05:34, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
I work in Communications for the State Bar of California. I am also a long-time experienced Wikipedia editor on a range of subjects. I am updating only where this article is badly out of date. If anyone has issue with my updates or changes, I welcome discussion. Sfmammamia ( talk) 00:01, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
This page was flagged for re-organization to comply with Wikipedia organizational updates. I started to update it, but I noted that it had not been updated for over a year, with many sections not updated for many years. I also noted a lot of sections and sentences that needed citations. Please let me know if anyone disagrees with the re-organization. A lot has happened in 2019-2020, so hopefully this update will be fine with the wiki community. Saltwolf ( talk) 03:23, 23 June 2020 (UTC)