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Can we de-pipelink indigenous in the lead, and use the word
Native Indonesian?
I can unlink it, but I am adverse to the term "native Indonesian" as there was no "Indonesia" at the time. —
Crisco 1492 (
talk) 18:42, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Should mention that it was a silent film in the lead.
One thing I have trouble understanding is the film being aimed at Chinese Indonesian? Were they culturally very distinct from Native Indonesian? Their language different? I mean how would one differentiate a film being aimed at Chinese versus native audience?--
Dwaipayan (
talk) 18:37, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Not language differences, but cultural ones. How could the film's target be identified? By having Chinese actors, for one. By showing an ethnic Chinese overpowering a native, for two. The political and cultural stratification is covered at
Chinese Indonesians. —
Crisco 1492 (
talk) 18:42, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
" an ethnic Chinese overpowering a native"-- who was the ethnic Chinese?--
Dwaipayan (
talk) 18:45, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Thio Sing Sang. Clarified in text. —
Crisco 1492 (
talk) 18:47, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Probably irrelevant to this discussion, I see that in Indonesia's 2000 census, 1.2 per cent were ethnically Chinese. Were they so much more at the film's time that a producer would aim them as the target audience?--
Dwaipayan (
talk) 18:51, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Lower actually.
This gives a total population in the Indies of 60.7 million for 1930, and
this (cited) graph gives 582,000 ethnic Chinese. So not even 1%. The issue would have been more one of ethnicity and cultural alliances. —
Crisco 1492 (
talk) 18:58, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Its interesting and intriguing. Targeting just one per cent of the population, and still hoping to profit! --
Dwaipayan (
talk) 19:07, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
The ethnic Chinese had a lot more capital than natives (this is in the new footnote). Note that the only domestic films which could turn a profit during the Depression were all Chinese-oriented (and directed by
The Teng Chun). —
Crisco 1492 (
talk) 19:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
" Jo Eng Sek left the industry... Returning with..." Perhaps clarify his role in his return film? Producer?
Si Ronda, Si Pitoeng need release years.--
Dwaipayan (
talk) 19:07, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Done. Pitoeng was given earlier. —
Crisco 1492 (
talk) 19:12, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Can we have a English name or translation of the name for the film?--
Dwaipayan (
talk) 23:55, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
It's the same. "Tjonat" is a name (so you can't translate that) and Si is an article used to indicate a person. —
Crisco 1492 (
talk) 23:57, 11 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Oh, ok.
That explanatory note on Chinese and native people is excellent. Thanks for it.
In my opinion, this article meets GA criteria.--
Dwaipayan (
talk) 00:07, 12 June 2013 (UTC)reply
PR
Just a few comments I didn't manage to get in before the PR closed. I've made a few tweaks here and there: feel free to revert anything you don't like.
Lead
"He is captured after kidnapping an
ethnic Chinese woman, defeated by her fiancé." A bit clumsy - could do with a re-working
Any chance of another images?
this one? Or one with both - something with two Wongs would make it right.... (Sorry, couldn't resist the pun!)
Three Wongs to make it right, actually, but I haven't found an early enough publication date for that image. —
Crisco 1492 (
talk) 09:40, 7 October 2013 (UTC)reply
I enjoy these Indonesian film articles as they are almost completely outside my scope of knowledge. But this one really frustrated me. Having reached para two I got that Tjonat is the central character's name, but never came to what the title meant. So I tried the article
Tjerita Si Tjonat, which has a useful translation "The Story of Si Tjonat", so "Si" cannot mean "of", leaving my best guess as at least the loose equivalent of "Mr". But now, on this page, I find it's bit different. Also, there is no relevant explanation at
Si. As this is en.wiki shouldn't that explanation be in a footnote from the film title in the Lead?
Davidships (
talk) 17:04, 13 July 2020 (UTC)reply