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Pure speculation, fantasy, conspiracy theory etc. Page should be deleted. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Sem999 (
talk •
contribs) 11:20, 11 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The big problem with all this stuff is that it was covert and the evidence is circumstantial. I know there are people who believe that "Europe" interfered too so we will be critically dependent on reliable sources (aka "the
mainstream media"). If it is in the Daily Telegraph, then it would have to be reported equally.
The article is about Russian interference. Most of the timeline should be deleted as it has nothing to do with the article subject. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
86.174.55.49 (
talk) 06:02, 12 March 2019 (UTC)reply
If you have a look at the
log for this page, this was the original title for the article. I don't see any discussion here about the move which was done before. --
RaviC (
talk) 21:06, 17 May 2019 (UTC)reply
@
RaviC: there should have been discussion then too. It is your change that I saw.
X1\ (
talk) 21:11, 17 May 2019 (UTC)reply
RaviC, that's only part of the page move history. Here is the rest:
10 Jan 2018: Page
created with title "Russian interference in the 2016 United Kingdom referendum on exiting the European Union"
12 Apr 2018: Page
moved to "Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit referendum"
8 Jan 2019: Page
moved to "Alleged Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit referendum"
16 Jan 2019: Page
moved back to "Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit referendum"
14 May 2019: Page
moved again to "Alleged Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit referendum" (by RaviC)
That the page has stayed at "Russian interference in the 2016 Brexit referendum" for over a year, from 12 April 2018 to 14 May 2019 (except for a week in January), is consensus by
WP:SILENCE for the title. I agree with X1 that you should revert the move, and if you think it should be moved, start an RM. Levivich 21:29, 17 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I don't know enough about the topic to say what the best title is but I agree that being at a title for over a year counts as a long standing title, especially when the article isn't that much older and its a recent event. Crouch, Swale (
talk) 10:54, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Requested move 17 May 2019
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the article to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below.
Dekimasuよ! 06:19, 25 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Both a Commons select committee and a US Senate committee have clearly stated there was interference. I believe that is sufficient to justify the present title.
Charles (
talk) 22:23, 17 May 2019 (UTC)reply
If you have to resort to an ad hominem attack, you must know that your case is weak. The Select Committee can make an assessment based on balance of probabilities and their report is detailed and clear (see citation). The High Court did not give any finding of guilty or not guity on Russian involvement since it is irrelevant to the substantive point of law that they had to consider. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 12:02, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
(In case it is not generally known, guilt in a criminal case must be 'beyond reasonable doubt'. In a civil case, the balance of probability is used). --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 13:52, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Oppose per
WP:RS. "Nothing has been proven in a court of law" - doesn't matter, we follow sources.
Volunteer Marek (
talk) 00:08, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Oppose. The article isn't titled this way because it's an incontrovertible fact, but because that's how the phenomenon is commonly identified, including by key sources like those noted above. Requiring something to be proven in court is not the standard by which Wikipedia articles are titled.
╠╣uw[
talk 09:48, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Support It is only an allegation.
Slatersteven (
talk) 11:43, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Not a good answer. If the responsible Select Committee, on considering the evidence, came to a conclusion on the balance of probabilities, then it is without doubt the most reliable source for this article. To argue otherwise needs an impeccable source of equal standing. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 12:02, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
An allegation is an allegation until proved. Also (as far as I know) the actual investigation is still ongoing, only interim (I.E. unfinished) reports have been issued.
Slatersteven (
talk) 12:18, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Proof is only required in a criminal case (see above). In this case, the Select Committee has heard the evidence and decided that it is probably true. In any case, my opinion and yours are of no importance: we report wp:rs. So if you want to contradict the Select Committee, you need a equally reliable source.--
John Maynard Friedman (
talk) 13:58, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Please see
Wikipedia:Verifiability#Exceptional claims require exceptional sources. One red flag is "challenged claims that are supported purely by primary or self-published sources or those with an apparent conflict of interest". Collins, as an anti-Brexit campaigner, has a very clear conflict of interest in this case. --
RaviC (
talk) 14:58, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Do RS say it happened or that a parliamentary committee have said it has?
Slatersteven (
talk) 15:03, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Oppose per Marek and Huw. It doesn't matter if it's proven in a court of law, or if Wikipedia editors think it is "alleged" or not, it only matters what the RSes say. I don't see evidence that the RSes refer to it as "alleged interference" as opposed to "interference". (See, for example, the links I posted in the AfD of this article.) The viewpoint that there was no interference can be handled in the article in accordance with
WP:DUE, but renaming the article would be undue. Levivich 21:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Oppose per the quote in the "After the 23 June 2016 vote" section from the 2018 January, a US Senate minority report : The Russian government has sought to influence democracy in the United Kingdom through disinformation, cyber hacking, and corruption. While a complete picture of the scope and nature of Kremlin interference in the UK's June 2016 referendum is still emerging... etc. It's explicit. --
The Vintage Feminist (
talk) 03:13, 19 May 2019 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this
talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Web sites advocating Brexit all seem to have dried up - May be ad rem
Many of the primary web sites advocating for Brexit seem have vanished. This is not original research on my part but I though it may be ad rem once we can see the Russian interference report.
Then we move onto the 2019 General Election
• City Action spent £40,534 on ‘pro-business' ads during the 2019 election campaign. No posts since December 11th. They’re now a GoDaddy holding page and a dead Gmail address -
https://twitter.com/WhoTargetsMe/status/1277965371924819974?s=20
• ‘Capitalist Worker’ spent £37,790 between being set up on November 4th 2019 and December 12th. A couple of cursory posts since, but it doesn’t really exist any more. They even managed to get most of their ads taken down -
https://twitter.com/WhoTargetsMe/status/1277966650734596096?s=20
• Parents’ Choice spent £43,835 attacking Labour’s education policies, then disappeared. It’s now just a privacy notice. (Richard Tracey, the named data controller is a former Conservative MP and was formerly then-• London-Mayor Boris Johnson’s “Ambassador for the River”) -
https://twitter.com/WhoTargetsMe/status/1277968423599759365?s=20
• The Campaign Against Corbynism keeps on rolling, after spending £50k on ads during the election campaign (but nothing before and less than £1k since). Still no idea who they are -
https://twitter.com/WhoTargetsMe/status/1277964366441111560?s=20 — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.66.181.108 (
talk) 18:06, 5 July 2020 (UTC)reply