Intro and infobox
- Infobox: Would you please link to
Allen & Collens for architect (if possible based on the way you have them listed in the infobox)
- Infobox: I generally see "Neo Gothic" with a dash "Neo-Gothic" and it would be great to link it to
Neo-Gothic or directly to
Gothic Revival architecture.
- I think it is already dashed and linked.
epicgenius (
talk) 03:48, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- Infobox: A link would be great for
carillon, too.
- Intro: General comment - it is very well written and inspires interest in learning more.
- Intro: Please link to
narthex and perhaps
nave.
- Intro, 3rd paragraph: a vs. an - should the words "original vision of a "interdenominational," be "original vision of an "interdenominational,–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 03:38, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- Great! Re: "Neo-Gothic" see the first 1/2 of the infobox under architecture.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 04:19, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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- I am going to keep reading the article and come back to the comments and all your "done"s.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 04:24, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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History
Congregation
- 2nd paragraph - I am not sure what you mean by moving in a more modernist direction. Is it the philosophical
modernism /
Age of enlightenment? If so, please add a link. If you mean something else, could you add a short phrase?–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 04:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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Progressive ideology
- 1st paragraph: In the sentence "Rockefeller then told the Park Avenue Baptist Church's leaders about the plan and then hired an agent to look at the planned church site.[16]" the second then seems redundant. Instead of "and then", perhaps something like ", after which he". Not a big deal, just throwing out a suggestion.
- 2nd paragraph: "Initially," does not seem to be needed.
- Just out of curiosity, why are there sometimes several citations for one sentence, like "At the end of May 1925, Fosdick finally agreed to become minister of the Park Avenue Baptist Church.[18][20][22][23]" - for something that should not be contested?–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 04:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- Not sure. I like to add citations if the source supports the fact, even in part, so that might be part of the reason why. However, I can combine the duplicate citations.
epicgenius (
talk) 04:17, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
Site selection
Planning
- 2nd paragraph, last line: Re: "cloister", if you add a link to
cloister, that would be great. I don't see the need for quotes around the word.
- Comment - very cool fact about the architects getting inspiration for the design from the
Chartres Cathedral.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 04:33, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
Construction
- 2nd paragraph: "Nonetheless," seems counter-intuitive. If Rockefeller said he was going to wait until the insurance claims were settled to continue construction, I would expect a delay. Perhaps "Nonetheless" is not needed.
- 3rd paragraph: "The first portion of the new church building. the assembly hall..." should have a comma, right?
- 3rd paragraph: Is the point of "thousands more were unable to enter" that "thousands more wished to enter?
- General comment: Wow, very interesting information - particularly about the neighborhood renovation projects!
- General comment: very cool about the Olmsted Brothers working on Sakura Park! And, I am reminded of chanting in the cloisters of upper Manhattan. i.e., it is bringing back great memories.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 04:48, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
1930s through mid-1960s
- 1st paragraph - Does "with corresponding increases in enrollment at the church's Sunday school.[68]" go with the increased member count? Vs. the rate at which rooms are occupied?
- Perhaps a link to Rockefeller in the caption for the image. I don't know what the style guidelines are, I just make it a habit to link where possible in captions - so if someone's eyes are caught by the image, they don't have to search for a link.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 04:58, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
Late 1960s through 1990s
- Quotes around words / names of things. I don't see a need to put quotes around "reparations". I wouldn't have put quotes around the fund and the study, but that makes more sense to me, since they are unique names with specific meanings to the church.
- I was wondering if the six councils from the previous section were able to make progress... or if the dissention that Campbell could still be due to a lack of organizational process and harmony.
- They made progress, but if I recall correctly, it wasn't sufficient. I will have to download the book again.
epicgenius (
talk) 05:32, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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- If it's possible to close that loop, it would be nice. It won't affect passing the article.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 20:29, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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- What happened to Evelyn Newman, if you know? Was she considered for the senior position in 1977?... Or, is it just the point that a woman was hired as a pastor?
- The second point is correct. It was just the fact that the church had never hired a woman pastor.
epicgenius (
talk) 05:32, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- What does "with Sunday morning service being particularly emphasized." mean? Over what?
- Is "Body Lawson, Ben Paul Associated Architects and Planners" all one company name?
- Amazingly lovely images, by the way... and you are a good storyteller, meant in the best possible sense for a non-fiction article.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 05:15, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
21st century
- 1st paragraph - he-->the typo in "concerned an allegation that he church's finances"
- 1st paragraph - in "though the congregation was now majority black and Hispanic." It seems like "primarily" fits better than "majority". What do you think?
- 2nd paragraph - Is "was" helpful / needed in "Another nationwide, year-long search was commenced, and in August..."
- 2nd paragraph - In "In June 2009 he submitted", it seems as if a comma is needed after 2009 -- and in keeping with usage elsewhere in the article.
- Consistent handling of quotes around phrases for fund and study, re: "right of first offer" i.e., however you chose to handle quotes marks there.
- I am a little confused about claims by Butler and other women of sexual harassment by Edward Lowe in "The former council member claimed that despite the Council previously launching an extensive investigation into Lowe's conduct, the Council did not conduct as thorough of an investigation into an employee's complaint against Butler before voting to break off contract negotiations.[127]" Was only one person's claim investigated? Was this ever successfully resolved?
- Let me check this tomorrow, since it's getting late where I live.
epicgenius (
talk) 05:41, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- Okay, great. That would be nice. What especially threw me was "investigation into an employee's complaint". If that could be clarified, that would be great! All that may be needed (if true) is that it was an "investigation into the employees' complaints."
- I just went with "allegations" since the sources do not mention whether there was one or numerous complaints.
epicgenius (
talk) 21:07, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- Were the two controversies at the top of this section resolved?–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 05:32, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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Design
- 1st paragraph - Comma after "As of 2017"?
- 1st paragraph - Earlier in the article it said that the proposed tower was 375-foot-tall, but here it says 392 feet. Is that because the 375 was just an early design and it was amended later? Or is a difference between sources?
- The first one is correct. I have fixed this.
epicgenius (
talk) 15:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- 2nd paragraph - Re: "Pelton and Collens said that Chartres would provide the "fundamental principles" for the design of Riverside Church, but that the churches would have a completely different outline." Why does it say "churches" does that mean to cover the chapel and the main church?
- Sorry, I meant Chartres and Riverside were different.
epicgenius (
talk) 15:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- 2nd paragraph - I don't understand "The rest of the exterior is faced with Indiana Limestone." What other stone or building material was used on the other part of the facade?
- That means Indiana limestone is the material used for the rest of the facade. Hopefully I clarified this.
epicgenius (
talk) 15:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- 3rd paragraph - for modernist, please link to
Modernist architecture or directly to
Modern architecture.
- General comment - the 3rd paragraph is very interesting!–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 05:50, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
Architectural features
- stopping for tonight... and you are probably wanting a break from all the detailed comments. Just like eating an elephant, I will take the article a bit at a time. I'm tired, but it has been fun reading the article. I hope you consider taking it to Featured Article status next.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 05:50, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- If you want me to just handle any minor, clear things, like links, typos, etc. - let me know. Then you could just look at edits to ensure you agree. Whatever works best for you.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 06:41, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
-
CaroleHenson, it would be great if you went over the minor typos. I think it would be better to list the major issues here, and would save time and effort.
epicgenius (
talk) 15:14, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- Ok, will do,
Epicgenius.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 17:28, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- Facade
-
- no comments or questions.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 17:40, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
Nave
I am not understanding "The tiles above the chancel and the nave's northernmost two bays are brown, because a sealant was applied in that section in 1953 to increase the acoustical reach of the organ, and had turned yellow over time." - how does adding a sealant increase the "acoustical reach"? (It may just be that I don't understand how adding a sealant would improve acoustics.)–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 18:01, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- Struck this out after reading the Organs section.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 19:19, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- Chancel, ambulatory, and apse
-
- No questions or comments.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 18:11, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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- Narthex
-
- No questions or comments.–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 18:19, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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Chapel
- Gethsemane Chapel or Christ Chapel
- In the Narthex section, it says "The mortuary chapel is known as the Gethsemane Chapel (known as the Christ Chapel prior to 1959).[151]"
- In the Chapel section, it says: "The chapel to the south of the narthex, known since 1959 as the Christ Chapel,[144][159]"
- Which is correct?
–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 18:24, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
- @
CaroleHenson: These are two separate chapels. The mortuary chapel, which was once known as the Christ Chapel, and the main chapel, which was the second to receive the name Christ Chapel.
epicgenius (
talk) 21:07, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
reply
-
Epicgenius I added a note
here. I am guessing I am not the only person who would be confused by that. How does that work?–
CaroleHenson (
talk) 21:46, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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-
CaroleHenson, honestly I am not sure why that renaming was even approved in the first place. There must have been something going on back then.
epicgenius (
talk) 21:48, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
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