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While this article is a good start, it seems to overly emphasize the California faires. While it gives a few sentences to Bristol and mentions the names of other faires, all of the history and indeed, name-dropping seems to revolve around the Pleasure Faires of California. Now I don't deny that the California faires are an important part of the story, but they are only part of it.
Although I don't have the knowledge to fix it, it would be great if the article could incorporate numbers to give a better idea of just how many faires there are and give an idea of the different types of fairs there are (i.e. those that run a weekend, those that run all summer, hard-structure vs. soft, etc.). Numbers around attendance would also give a good idea of the varying sizes of the faires.
Please discuss. - brenneman (t) (c) 02:49, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
I think there are far too many External Links. Frankly, I am tempted to remove ALL links to random photo sites and fan clubs. The link to Renaissance Festival books at the British Library is very interesting -- but it is to records of real, actual, Renaissance festivals (i.e. 15th - 17th centuries). Does it belong here? I think the external links should be limited to big, general info sites, and not to specific fairs (those links belong on the pages devoted to those specific fairs, if Wiki worthy). Artemis-Arethusa 18:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC) (Me again, a little later) Lots of other, bigger things have far fewer external links. "Science fiction convention", a category comparable to this one, if not even broader, has only eight, and so does ""Open air museum". This links list needs paring. Artemis-Arethusa 20:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Anyone know why my link was removed in this edit? edit history And again in this edit? edit history 2 And yet again what is going on and why is this being done? [68.83.125.151]
The links that I was referring to were not the purity test links but the links to the MDRF Friends of Faire group which does fit in with the kink of links that are appropriate especially considering we have the MDRF Wiki on the site.—This unsigned comment was added by Toren ( talk • contribs) .
The title of the section "Commentaries on Current Faires, Internal Politics, and Commercialism" has been changed to just "Commericalism" by Aaron... but this just draws further attention to the fact that this section is problematic.
I created the earlier title to point out that this content was really "Commentary"...
As the opening paragraph is editorializing (i.e. non-encyclopedic), I am moving it here to the Discussion page until someone can edit it to remove bias/personal opinion (also needs some rewriting if it is to be used in main article).
Commercialism The California festival has largely changed since the seventies and eighties when it rivaled Oktoberfest in Beer Sales and incorporated a vision of the emerging renaissance of the sixties into its colorful street scene. Face painters and cookiejesters, Flamenco performers and Pinwheels all portrayed both a historical and present renaissance. Many of the workers also attended shows of the Grateful Dead, and the crafts were unrivaled in the state. Largely declining in the quality of crafts and intensity of theatrical experience the crew and cast have moved on to other ventures and the emphasis is no longer on interactive ensemble theatre. After famed longform improvisation performer and Faire employee Hal Taylor passed, the final link with a history steeped in performers from Second City and the Groundlings was eroded. The festival still includes music, dance and stage performances, scattered lightly through the open air facilities.
It may be that this just belongs here in discussion, and should not be edited and moved back.
Regards,
Liberty Miller September 20, 2005 (22:22 UTC)
To avoid opinion, simple research could determine: Longest continually running fair, longest running (total time, if defunct), largest fair (property/size), highest attended fair, and maybe longest fair operational season (event open the most weekends). The jaded patron in me wants to add "most expensive event" like media always does when talking about Orlando theme parks... -- Allen Huffman 22:18, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
The booths selling stuff with signs that say "Ye Olde <insert name>" always seemed very unrennaisance to me. Sure, it's a nostalgia-fest, but if it were a real Rennasiance Fair, everything would be "Ye New". I think it would be clever marketing, for example, for a stand selling french fries to market them as "Ye New" discovery from the new world...-- RLent 19:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Not to be too picky, but I have been to or worked at 31 of the 200+ faires, and have yet to find any booth with a sign saying "Ye Olde". I have seen a couple "Shoppes", but they are rare. I would argue that using these terms is not typical of faires, and should probably be deleted from the article. (population size ca 200; sample size 31 = ca. 15%). These terms do appear regularly in printed advertising, such as programs) JSweetland (on the road)
Perhaps, as a guideline, we could use some psuedo standard for entertainer listings. As much as I'd like to add my group to the list, the reality is that the listing contains alot of relatively new acts known only in a small regional area, and misses alot of the national touring acts (jousting troupes, Smee and Blogg, Puke and Snot, endless others) that have been performing nationwide for decades. Perhaps we can work on a better list, listing acts and when they started, as a frame of reference. A group performing for 25 years is probably a better example of a seasoned renfest act than, say, my show which is only in its fourth season. (Of course, *personally* I love having "new" acts listed; gives the next generation some help!) Allen Huffman 16:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
More to the point, Wikipedia is not supposed to be used for personal and business promotion (a fact that is stated quite clearly). The audacity of certain performers posting their own links (not to mention creating their own Wikipedia pages) is ridiculous. If the article is supposed to be about Renaissance Festivals, then let it be about Renaissance Festivals and leave out the personal plugs.
Bretblackshear 04:29, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Is anyone interested in tracing the idea of the Renaissance Fair as far back as they can? I believe the idea really gelled with the Eglinton Tournament in 1839, but there must be other examples too. Yes, it would be tricky, but it is an interesting sociological development. Artemis-Arethusa 00:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Are they the same? If they are, which should the article use? If they are different, what is the difference? -- Guinnog 07:10, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
They're not the same. "Faire" is probably marketing. Sticking with the idea of having these things set in the middle ages (but with later Renaissance elements pegged in for entertainment value), I implore someone to find me some solid proof that the word "faire" isn't supposed to stem from "feyre" or "feria." In other words, the "e" is appended as an added effect. "Faire" is a lot easier to remember than "feyre," and just like your average joe probably can't spell "Renaissance" they probably couldn't remember "feyre..." But then again, does it even make sense to use "feyre?" It's a Middle English word, is it justifiable to say it fits entirely within the Renaissance? Sure, there was the 12th century Renaissance, which fits entirely in the middle ages, but don't "ren faires" typically celebrate the latter one, the one that was widespread throughout Europe? This is a really confusing point... seeing as the article is listed as dealing with the middle ages, but don't fairs typically espouse the later European Renaissance? Shouldn't they be called "Dark Age Fairs" or "Middle Age Fairs" instead?
Don't take this as an attack, it just doesn't seem correct. However, just because it's not correct doesn't mean people will change it. From everything I've ever seen, the preferred spelling is "faire." Doesn't matter if it's wrong, it's just how it is.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.0.235.67 ( talk • contribs) 06:56, 19 October 2007
Thank you for cleaning up the article. My original "somewhat incorrect" was awkward. I think the wording "likely originated from" is a much better way to explain it. It's a way of saying it seems like it came from that, but doesn't irrefutably prove that it did. Also, integrating it into the other things these fairs are called was also pretty sharp. Good edit.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.48.40.133 ( talk • contribs) 00:59, November 19, 2007
Restored the external links to the fairs. It is not clear this is spam. It seems the appropriate article to link to fairs. -- Stbalbach 16:11, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree that external links to fairs is not spam. Cynrin 16:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Links to fairs is not spam, but is outside the scope of the article and should not be allowed as it is promoting private businesses. The original festivals are listed. Other festivals can be, too, as examples of the widespread popularity of Renaissance Festivals, but that should be it. If a completel list of festivals isn't posted, then none should be.
Bretblackshear 04:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I added a picture from the Renaissance Pleasure Faire in Agoura c. 1986, but it's not the highest quality I can imagine. I'll see if I have any other 20-year-old photos that will survive digitizing, but if anyone has something more iconic, please replace this. I have a program from the 1970s somewhere... PKM 19:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh, come on. Is this section nessesary? You would have to be a small child or a moron to think that people are actually being "harmed" at these commercial fairs via "real combat". 70.20.136.170 00:48, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
As an avid faire-goer, I have seen both small children and morons at Faires, including one lady that screamed in horror as a man in the stocks was "flogged" at a faire in Visalia, CA. This is just like any other warning; it's only there because someone was stupid enough to do it/try it/believe it. Highlander3751 01:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
The Myth section is completely uneccessary and puts forth the wrong idea and it is just not done. Bretblackshear 04:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I do not think that the image of a belly dancer inserted on May 22 adds to the article, so I removed it. First, there is already a picture of a belly dancer in the article. Second, the picture was not even of a belly dancer performing; it is just a woman in a costume walking down a street--there is no way of telling whether this is a performer or just a patron who showed up in costume.
There are million of pictures taken at Ren Fests over the course of a year and almost all of them should not be added to this article. I thought about inserting a picture of my husband in his new "Fool" costume (GA Ren Fest) but realized that there is already a picture of someone in a jester's costume so it would be too similar and not add to the article, only to my ego. Ergo, I decided not to include it. Cynrin 01:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
The posting of generic photos of typical goings on at a Renaissance festival is what is appropriate, NOT promotional or fan photos of groups with the specific group name listed below. The Lost Boys picture should be removed or the text changed to read "example of a Renaissance festival music group". My vote is for it to be removed lest passersby mistake The Lost Boys (a fun act, yes) to be a "typical" Renaissance festival music group.
Bretblackshear 04:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
If these fairs are individually Wiki-worthy, then they should have separate entries where their individual charms are discussed. Likewise, comments about the delights of your fair belong on your own websites, not in Wikipedia. I have edited the list to names of the fairs and brief descriptions. Artemis-Arethusa 17:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
First off, cheers to Artemis-Arethusa for working so diligently on this page. As a whole, the page seems like a good attempt, but perhaps does not convey just what a Ren fair is as well as it could. In an attempt to bring up the quality of the page, I'm going to try to search around for citations and/or footnotes. As to the notable fairs, that part is a mess in itself. If they're so notable, shouldn't there be separate pages for each one?
Other than that, what else can/should be done? Ideas? — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 18:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I did find a dissertation! at the Digital Repository at Texas A&M ( a real mouthful of a précis!), but somehow I don't think it will help. As for overhaul, I removed a long paragraph which was basically a list of some of the types of entertainer found at Ren fairs, with links to just about every type. However, I have placed some of those links in the "See also" section. I also removed some of the history of the (California) Renaissance Pleasure Faire. It really belongs in its own entry, not this general one. Artemis-Arethusa 00:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed a picture of Robin Hood's Merry Men which was kind of so-so ... They were running off to the side of the picture, and it looked like the right half was missing. We could use some clear, iconic images for this article. There apparently was a nice jester pic for a while, but the reason it was so nice was that it was a copyrighted commercial image. Oops. We need copyright-free images, like people's own snapshots, if they're nice. One of the craftspersons at work, like a glassblower or smith, would be good. Also some of the mock-tudor architecture. And maybe a little more of the fancy costumes. What I'm thinking about is images which clearly convey what are seen as important parts of a Renaissance fair. Artemis-Arethusa 20:37, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I just added one of my own photos from last year. Artemis-Arethusa 01:01, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
I have some photos that I'd be willing to release under a CC license, including a glassblower and some other "iconic" material. Coming soon. 168.9.120.8 ( talk) 18:11, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
I've been trying to find my original reference for this, but no luck: I am pretty sure that the Renaissance fair as we understand it was actually originated in the time of Elizabeth I (and, to a lesser extent, of her father, Henry VIII) as a sort of pro-good-old-days propaganda. The legitimacy of the Tudor line was shaky despite Henry VII's usurpation and ruthless extermination of every twig of the Plantagenet tree, and religious wars had caused a lot of anxiety. Numerous tournaments and fairs were organised under Elizabeth to jolly up patriotism and good feeling -- Think about this: In Elizabeth's time, knights in armor jousting were almost two hundred years out of date. It was a deliberate nostalgia trip, even back then!
Regrettably, I can't find where I first ran across this, and lacking any good reference material, I must leave it out of the main article. I'll keep my eyes open.
Also, I'm pretty sure the Metropolitan Museum of Art was hosting jousts and Renaissance festivals in New York City in the 1950s, but I don't have any documentation on hand. Something about the Cloisters and early music records, and maybe John Langstaff too. Artemis-Arethusa 00:16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
This article is very US-centric, and the few mentions of similar European events present them in a fabourable light most do not deserve. It is true, there are some rare historically accurate reenactments in Europe, often held in historical places. The more typical equivalent of a ren fair in Germany (at least) is called a de:Mittelaltermarkt here. Despite its name, it has only few things in common with a market held in the middle ages. Perhaps the name »Fantasy Fair« would be more accurate. This sort of events is sometimes ridiculed by the historians and reenactors, but usually defended as a fun thing by participants and regular visitors. It is quite usual for members of the LARP scene to show up there, dressed in fantasy clothes like Gondor military garb (as seen in the movies). I think US »ren fairs« are so much similar to this that I dare to set a link. -- 62.143.121.135 17:58, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I think we need to come to a consensus on what determines a notable fair, as people keep adding to the list. I propose that a fair is notable if one of the following is true:
To informally check attendance, I use Renaissance Festival, though I sometimes question its reliability. What do you guys think? — HelloAnnyong [ t · c ] 05:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Additionally, what about festivals that have permanent, dedicated fairgrounds? Would this qualify as notable? 168.9.120.8 ( talk) 18:11, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
which is the bigest, or most popular renaisance fair in america? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.134.113 ( talk) 05:17, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
MOST of the photographs in the gallery located at my old gallery were made by my; I will happily upload them and release them to the public domain UPON REQUEST. Photos depict festival scenery, employees, and demonstrations at the Georgia Renaissance Festival. If you would like to use these images on the article, please leave me a message at my talk page.
I would go ahead and upload them for posting, but I'm not sure where they should go; I wish neither to overcrowd the article page nor to vainly replace another user's photos with my own. Please remember to ask permission to use specific photos! Aylad ( talk) 01:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Che4u added in the NHRF and an image from the NHRF. Aside from being an single purpose account, I've removed both of the edits. The first one is gone because the NHRF isn't a particularly notable fair; its average population is around 500 people. I removed the image because it doesn't add to the article at all; it's just an image of people standing around. Furthermore, the image has an NHRF watermark in the corner, so that seems a little dubious too. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 18:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I would like to point out that a de:Mittelaltermarkt as can be found at various places in Germany closely resembles the description of a Renaissance fair found here. The biggest difference seems to be that Mittelaltermärkte have even less pretence to historical authenticity than Renaissance fairs; they are exclusively entertainment and present a fantasy world inspired by an eclectic mix of different time periods. In fact, the two articles even link to each other, so I fail to see why the German phenomenon is ignored here. In the Netherlands, there are similar events, such as de:Elf Fantasy Fair, this one obviously being on the less serious side. de:Mittelalterszene gives an overview of the spectrum from events with educational purposes to mere entertainment. Florian Blaschke ( talk) 02:26, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
I wish to add a new section to this article but I cannot seem to find a news article that I know exists. I am hoping some old faire goers might have seen the article and maybe even kept it so they can tell me where I can look for a copy. I seriously doubt this would be an online text. What I remember is an article that described Phyllis Patterson as the "Mother of the Renaissance Faire" but also refered to her as the "Mother of the Fifth Form of Theater" which I think was also called "Theater-in-the-Live" (but I am not sure of that). The article was either in a newspaper or a magazine circa 2000-2005 approximately and probably was a local publication in southern California but might have been in a larger publication. Any help is appreciated. 66.102.205.233 ( talk) 08:21, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm thinking about starting an article about a relatively small Ren Faire. It's been going for I believe four years, and attracts several hundred people on a typical weekend. But I wanted to post a note here first in case anyone has a good reason why I shouldn't start it (I've had enough battles on wikis to last a lifetime, so want to prevent them). By the way, I am not the owner or related to the owner, but have been there a few times and have shot several photos. If no one has a good reason why I shouldn't start the article, I will. Thanks! Alden Loveshade ( talk) 00:49, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed the section "myths and lore", because it seemed to contain doubtful uncited information, possibly original research. If the information is actually correct, please re-add it, making appropriate citations to reliable sources. Thanks, Vectro ( talk) 14:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
This article is very US centric. It either needs to have its title changed or all non US based historical fair information removed and place in another article under a title such as 'Historical Fairs'. The term 'Renaissance fair' (or festival) is as far as I know only used in the US (and then rather strangely because the renaissance was a specific period in history and US fairs cover a much wider historical period). There is a wide range of historical fairs and festivals in Britain, Europe as well as in Australia and other countries. Many historical fairs in Europe emphasise the history with battle reenactments and living history demonstrations along with historically themed entertainment. Mixing US renaissance fairs in with those fairs that aim to be more about history than a history theme park confuses the focus of the article. Either a clear demarcation of the differences between all these fairs needs to be done within one article or a separate article about historical fairs is required. Please comment. If no-one gives feedback within a month I will just go ahead and make a decision Robynthehode ( talk) 20:07, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Okay. There are a number of reasons why this text does not belong on this page. One, this is a page about all fairs, and singling out one fair doesn't make sense - especially when that fair has its own article, and the text is already there. Second, Wikipedia is not a soapbox and is not the place to grind an axe, and adding this text to a number of pages is wholly unacceptable behavior. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 00:14, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
This article states several times that this is an American thing, despite a discussion on this page from 2009 (!!!) providing context for Germany. When I lived in Germany for 10 years it was hard to swing a dead cat and not hit a Mittelaltermarkt or Ritterfest. This needs a serious rewrite to include our European brethren. CsikosLo ( talk) 17:08, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
In the first paragraph defining Renaissance Fairs I noticed it excluding any mention of blacksmiths. I'll admit I haven't read the remaining article, but it seems as though they should be included because they offer not only products for sale, but also are handmaking those items all day in that heat and sharing their talent and knowledge in addition to selling products. PudgeandNugget ( talk) 22:54, 8 April 2023 (UTC)