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If that is really your name!!! I intend to discuss and alter the whole article with your kind co-operation - Taking it piece by piece.
Open paragraphes from "Osteomyology to Chiropractic and Osteopathy" (Reference [1]) stands as is. From "Osteomyologists are therapists" to "Statutory Bodies" (ref. [2]) so using wiki rules - quote cannot be endorsed as not contained in your reference.
Alan Clemens ( the real one) Alan Clemens ( talk) 08:36, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Welcome Alan. I hope your presence here will strengthen this article. However, my guess is that you have not done too much Wikipedia editing before. I have had to revert you edits as they break a number of really important wikipedia rules. Firstly, we must try to stick to a Neutral Point of View policy ( WP:NPOV). This might be quite hard for you as you are so close to the subject. Your opinions cannot be the subject of an encyclopedic entry on osteomyology. Everything in here should be verifiable through secondary sources ( WP:V), ( WP:CITE).
What you say may well be true, but Wikipedia cannot be the place for original research ( WP:NOR). For example, you say "Osteomyologists have a well defined philosophy based on the principles of VITALISM ". We would need reliable source for this statement if we are to include it. Much, however does read like promotion rather than verifiable material. For example, "From the volume of patients treated on a weekly basis, and testimonials, the practice of Osteomyology seems to be lauded around the UK." This clearly cannot form part of the article.
I would strongly suggest that any future proposed additions are discussed here first, showing the proposed addition and the sources you will cite. As NPOV is going to be hard for you, I suggest you let other editors make the changes once they have been agreed. SimonTroote ( talk) 11:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I have reverted the last edit as it broke references and was unexplained. Let's try to make this article sound by discussing how to improve it. SimonTroote ( talk) 22:37, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
== Proposed New Introduction == 9th July 2008
OSTEOMYOLOGY Osteomyology (sometimes Neurosteomyology) is a form of alternative medicine practiced by Registered Osteomyologists[1]www.osteomyology.co.uk/about usfound almost exclusively in the United Kingdom there are however members in Germany, France, Italy, Australia and New Zealand and recently the United States[2]www.osteomyology.co.uk find an osteomyologistThe new discipline(1992) follows the Philosophy of Vitalism and is a method of using various treatment modules to bring safe and effective treatment to the patient [3] www.backtrouble.co.uk/listing.php?id=288, although the original treatment protocols stemmed from the practices of osteopathy, chiropractic, acupuncture, shiatsu, kinesiology, physiotherapy and a mirade of others - the joining together of many different practitioners has resulted in an effective new way of treating patients [3]. At it's outset Osteomyology was a collection of Practitioners who, disillusioned by the dealings of the GOsC (general osteopathic council )and later the GCC (general chiropractic council), decided that, in their opinion, the higher fees and the general ethos of these bodies was not suited to their talents, sensibilities or philosophy.[1]
hope this is right
Alan Clemens Alan Clemens ( talk) 15:28, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
taking into account your comments here is our ammended version for your attention. We have referenced safe and effective treatment to reliable source (backtrouble). We have taken out watchful eye / high handed and extortionate.
We agree that the opening paragraph is the most important part of the reference, but we do not agree that your version is to the point, accurate and sourced - for example your [1] reference "brightcove" does not exist for any reference to Osteomyology, and as for the other references you have kindly added, [2] [3] neither of these substantiates "cannot join as they do not meet professional or training standards, or who have been suspended or struck off from these statutory bodies". There is no reference to this and it is bias and defamatory and to take your point, sheer POV, if it was true then every member would have been suspended or struck off.
Osteomyology (sometimes Neurosteomyology) is a form of alternative medicine practiced by Registered Osteomyologists[1]www.osteomyology.co.uk/about usfound almost exclusively in the United Kingdom there are however members in Germany, France, Italy, Australia and New Zealand and recently the United States[2]www.osteomyology.co.uk find an osteomyologist The new discipline(1992) follows the Philosophy of Vitalism and is a method of using various treatment modules to bring safe and effective treatment to the patient [3] www.backtrouble.co.uk/listing.php?id=288, although the original treatment protocols stemmed from the practices of osteopathy, chiropractic, acupuncture, shiatsu, kinesiology, physiotherapy and a mirade of others - the joining together of many different practitioners has resulted in an effective new way of treating patients [3]. At it's outset Osteomyology was a collection of Practitioners who, disillusioned by the dealings of the GOsC (general osteopathic council )and later the GCC (general chiropractic council), decided that, in their opinion, the higher fees and the general ethos of these bodies was not suited to their talents, sensibilities or philosophy.[1]
Alan Clemens ( talk) 17:04, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
The last sentence does not yet appear to reflect a NPOV and referenced statement of why people call themselves osteomyologists. The references do show that people become MAO when unable to register with stat reg bodies.
-- SimonTroote ( talk) 19:30, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
10th July 2008
With all due respect, Simon, before we continue, I suggest that YOU check brightcove [1] reference, there is nothing there, and also [2] & [3] for the struck off and unable to meet professional and training standards statement, also not referenced so therefore not permissable (your own words).
Alan Clemens ( talk) 16:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
11th July 2008
Replying to Twiga Kali - As far as we are concerned we have never seen it in the first place. This is why I was so insistant that Simon checked it.
Reply to Simon - Yes it is a shame, but lets get back to basics. You have no references for first part of your entry and no references for [2] [3] for the struck off and unable to meet professional and training standards statement,. So, can we therefore get down to writing a straight forward report on Osteomyology.
Alan Clemens ( talk) 14:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
User Alan Clemens
Honestly Simon as the founder of a new discipline can you possibly imagine howe many interviews I give.
What greedence does the ASA's opinion that someone with a lesser degree than a chirpractor can join the ranks of Osteomyology, firstly I gave advice to this committee and they did not in thev beginning, know the difference between any of us. And who's opinion counts as to what is the lesser degree, the chiropractors will say their degree is superior, osteopaths say no ours is, Kinesiologists say well we contain a part of each and that makes us better. Then of course there is the Acupuncturists who quote the fact that their discipline has been going since the yellow emperor thousands of years. We accept Anybody with a professional degree qualification, which gives everyone a level playing field. Now frankly Simon you continually avoid the point, you cannot produce verifiable evidence to back up the "cannot join as they do not meet professional or training standards, or who have been suspended or struck off from these statutory bodies". To quote your own words it must be reliably sourced and this is not so. Alan Clemens ( talk) 23:01, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
July 14th 2008
Simon
Agree with what you say but your remarks do seem to be one sided - you brought up the reference of the ASA but when I mention it - "this is not the place to debate what the ASA said"!!!!!
Do not see how we can progress the article until you remove the "cannot join as they do not meet professional or training standards, or who have been suspended or struck off from these statutory bodies". Again you have no reference material for this quote and so therefore I am requesting that you remove it and the unsubstantiated reference [1] with it, then we are on the road to building a good informative site - together.
Alan Clemens ( talk) 16:20, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I came here from the mention of this article at the fringe noticeboard. I do not see how either of the originally contending versions are acceptable, as one is essentially an advertisement and the other an attack page. I am also somewhat concerned over involvement in the related discussions of the general benefits or lack of benefits of manipulative therapy--such discussions have in the past led to great difficulty in being objective. Th sentences mentioned by AC just above are indeed totally unacceptable, and can not be supported by accounts of isolated cases. I suggest a rather shorter purely descriptive article, to be supplemented eventually by comment from additional sources. I gather both parties h=above have serious COI with respect to this organisation, I am glad they are so up front about them, for it wil facilitae the evaluation of the various statements. I hope they can be moderated to the extent that they will not prevent involvement with the article at all. I'll be back soon to see the improvements in the article. DGG ( talk) 08:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
1st August 2008
DGG - I agree entirely with DGG's sentiments expressed in his above discussion. Please find a totally unbias history and meaning of Osteomyology.
Osteomyology (sometimes Neurosteomyology) is a relatively new form of manual physical medicine running along the lines of Osteopathy, Chiropractic, Physiotherapy and Manipulative therapy.
It focuses on the diagnosis, treatment and prevention of mechanical and neurological disorders of the neuro, musculoskeletal systems and is classed as a complementary and alternative medicine health care profession.
The name is derived from Osteo (bone), Myo (muscle), ology (the study of). Practitioners of this discipline are all holders of degree status qualifications, in one or another, of the major manual manipulative sciences.
The General Council of Osteomyology (GCO) is the governing body and deals with any complaints, verification of insurance and mandatory CPD (Continuing Professional Development) quotas. This is overseen by various committees, Practice and Ethics, Disciplinary, and Education, all of which are staffed by a combination of practitioners and lay members.
Dr A Clemens PhD, founded Osteomyology in 1992 while studying Osteopathy, this started as a joke between himself and his fellow students however he went on to apply a different Philosophy to that of the Osteopathic profession more suited to the original Chiropractic beliefs of innate intelligence and Vitalism (-the theory that the origin and phenomena of life are dependent on a force or principle distinct from purely chemical or physical.)
Dr Clemens worked on the hypothesis that by combining disciplines of the different manual physical modalities one could discover different ways to treat patients
217.43.44.84 (
talk) 12:11, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
As the founder of Osteomyology, I have decided that Osteomyology is based on the theory of Vitalism as stated on www.osteomyology.co.uk. Just as Palmer decided vitalism for Chiropractic. What other reference is there or do you need?
86.145.183.50 ( talk) 11:16, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Surely there is something actually published to quote. If not, word it as Clemens says on his web site that .... There's generally a way. DGG ( talk) 23:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
This is unacceptable content. I've rewritten it. I'd hoped that I wouldnt have to come back for this. DGG ( talk) 23:32, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I have add this tag because the article seems to imply that chiropractic and osteopathic safety/efficacy studies are directly transferrable to describe the safety/efficacy of Osteomyology. Drawing this conclusion seems IMHO to violate WP:NOR. -- ǝʌlǝʍʇ ǝuo-ʎʇuǝʍʇ ssnɔsıp 01:00, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Too much of this article is not supported by any sources. Content that is unsourced is subject to removal. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 06:25, 4 February 2014 (UTC)