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The introductory paragraph contains the following statement:
Scholars contend that the number is a code for the Roman Emperor Nero, a view that is supported by the Roman Catholic Church
This implies, I submit, that all scholars endorse a preterist view of Revelation, and anyone who does not accept a preterist interpretation is not a scholar.
My suggestion would be to modify the text as follows:
Some scholars contend that the number is a code for the Roman Emperor Nero, a view that is supported by the Roman Catholic Church. Others believe that Revelation is primarily a parable, and view the Mark as purely an element of this parable. Finally, others believe that it refers to future events which have not yet transpired.
I submit that this, or something like it, would be more NPOV, and would address each of the three main schools of thought about Revelation in the opening sentence.
Thoughts??
Bonbga 18:13, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
It actually looks OK. It says that Roman Catholic Church believes this, but it doesn't outright say it is a code for the Roman Emperor Nero. Savie Kumara 05:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
The current statement doesn't look OK to me, either. I think Bonbga should change it exactly as he or she suggested. That statement about the scholars is, as it stands, grammatically incorrect and misleading. 71.142.1.5 14:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I added the word "some" back in the first paragraph. It now reads that "some scholars" believe that the Mark of the Beast was a code for Nero. Deleting the word "some", in my opinion, is not NPOV, because it implies that the belief that the Mark of the Beast is Nero is a universally held scholarly opinion. Bonbga —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 05:22, August 26, 2007 (UTC).
Someone keeps erasing the correct, in context definition of the "Mark" of the beast as being money.
The Greek word mistranslated as "Mark" (Χάράγμά) actually means MONEY.
When you put it all into context (Nero's picture on all the coins, Jesus saying, "You can't serve God & Money for you will either love the one or hate the other," upsetting the moneychangers, sending his disciples out without money in their purses; you see the correct translation is:
"No one buys or sells without the money of the beast in mind/hand."
SOURCE: [1] 150.135.161.145 18:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC) RAQUEL BARANOW
EnduranceRace 06:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
The source I used is from the Liddell-Scott Greek-English Lexicon. I made a jpeg of the page and also provided an online link to Liddell Scott all at my website here: http://666isMONEY.com.
It's not my theory it's just common sence of the definition in context. Χάράγμά means MONEY, hence, "No one buys or sells without the MONEY of the beast." Moreover, at the time the Revelation was written, the Jews revolted against Rome and coined their own money. Nero was the emperor at the time. "The numbers of his name" = 666 (see the original article -- at least the Wiki article gets that right.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.146.169.11 ( talk • contribs) 20:54, 19 June 2007.
Although I hate money, what disturbed me about the site is the idea of getting rid of the money. To achieve a cashless society the only way to do that without the possibility of identity theft would be a ID computer chip in the RIGHT HAND. "ID CHIP MARKS" = 666 in multiples of 6. www.666myth.com. Verify in the calculator on this site. And what is really scary is uncooperatives forced to be implanted with a mind control computer chip in the forehead. EnduranceRace 10:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
no one seems to get around to the fact that in order to advance in economics (have equity, start a business) you need a good credit rating. all the credit agencies will tell that if you're at least rating in the mid-600s, you'll probably get your loan. in modern times, if you have no credit, you're working at a crummy job, you owe $$ everywhere, and you're living hand-to-mouth. seems you need that good mark for the money lenders to see, huh? the current CEO of FICO is named "Mark" aint that ironic... but of course i'm not finding any websites to agree with me because everyone thinks we're getting hand tattoos. would anyone really stand for anything so blatant? especially when we're already in the system, almost without our knowledge or consent? i'm always recalling the latest visa commercials where someone with legal tender money is frowned upon by everyone else in line with credit cards. 76.202.219.193 ( talk) 20:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Acording to Qi's book 'The Book Of General Ignorance' recent historians have found an older bible that states that 616 is the number of the beast.
Shouldn't this factoid be on the main page? Nuwaubian Hotep 17:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Set the gravitational constant to 616 instead of 666? Make this elusive universal constant 667 instead of 665? It is no problem with the correct Rev. 12 dragon and Rev. 13 beast interpretation. Why does the Controversy over Newton's Gravitational Constant persist to this day? Come on, isn't it the 21st century? Surely the physicists who worship 10-digit accuracy and precision can nail this beast down. But they unrelentlessly dragon. It was Galileo Galilei who first gravitated the Bible's wisdom mark, name, image, and number (Rev. 13:17, 14:11, 15:2) to Jesus himself, whom The Revelation of Jesus Christ is about.
Rev. 12 dragon
[seven heads (.0000000), three sixes (.666), ten horns (x 10), seven crowns (^-7), and tail third (length^3/mass-time^2) part]
Rev. 13 beast
[seven heads (.0000000), three sixes (666.), ten horns (x 10), ten crowns (^-10), and tail third (length^3/mass-time^2) part]
Here's the facts: dragon = beast
New mass SI base unit prototype again? No, the debated SI definition: "The kilogram is the unit of mass; it is equal to the mass of 1/15 000 000 000 Newtonian constant of gravitation." The one used by Rev. John Michell and the other by Henry Cavendish weren't very scientific. Even the current one of the seven is still just a prototype, the only one. Go figure? Six six six (666), six one six (616), six six seven (667), six six five (665), take your pick, they're all right at high mass and low mass. But remember to power the beast's system with a dragon's notation. John
In the dream of king Nebuchadnezzar, the image of a man in the form of an idol in a set of five elements and a rock(which is three)a kingdom was given to him and looks like the same kingdom is given to the beast as well.(pride and idolatry).
18:22, 25 May 2007 [twentythreethousand]
"600+600+600+6= 1806 August 6, 1806- End of The Holy Roman Empire. Sometimes things aren't as big as they seem. 66.138.8.148 20:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)Lisa C."
00:30, 27 June 2007 twentythreethousand
increment if pi equals 3 according to the bible.(digits of the radius being a whole number from one to infinity). Twentythreethousand 18:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Twentythreethousand ( talk) 18:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
number of the hand:2+3+3+3+3=14 14*3=42 14/5=2.8 14*5=70 2/3*42=28 The moon is white in darkness,the sky is blue in the yellow sun and the trees are green in the purplish pink of the air and they are all inverted colors in the eyes of the computer and the shadow is the answer of the spirits. The anti-Christ is a shadow.666 is a shadow or a magnetic field or the finger prints. Twentythreethousand ( talk) 02:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone explain that strange markup in the section "666 as a name" under the words "Adding the corresponding values yields 666, as shown:"? Is it TeX? If no one objects I will remove it. The information can be shown in a table instead. Davidimai 11:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I reverted an edit by an anonymous user that changed what was in quoted text. I think it is obvious why we shouldn't change quoted text. If we change quoted text, we are putting words in our sources mouth that simply are not there. Also, according to the manual of style, "This guideline does not apply to quoted text, which should be quoted exactly." So I'm curious why my revert was reverted?- Andrew c 13:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
From 1 Kings:
14. Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was 666 talents of gold, 15 besides that which came from the explorers and from the business of the merchants, and from all the kings of the west and from the governors of the land.
This seems like critical information. The phrase "Let he who has wisdom" suggests that some text related with wisdom (like the Bible) is being used as the cipher for a code. Why was it removed? -- Ryan Wise 14:15, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Also Solomon was said to have prayed to YEHOVAH for Wisdom and the 666 talents of gold comes from the merchants and in Revelation it says that people would not be able to buy or sell without getting the number 666 on their right hands or forheads.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.6.162.222 ( talk • contribs) 06:24, 2 June 2007.
Also the Holy Scriptures says that YEHOVAH told Solomon that since he prayed for Wisdom and not Riches He was going to give him both. In Revelation it calls God the ALPHA and the OMEGA and it also says let he who has Wisdom calculate the number of the wild beast because it is a number for humans. 124.6.165.163 01:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
This is my first post, so please be patient if I screw up. . .
I read the article on the Mark of the Beast, and was struck by the passage concerning the use of the number 666 as a mark of commerce
It appears to me that the reference to commerce would be incomprehensible to any reader who was not, already, familiar with Revelation because it fails to cite, quote or even mention the relevant passage from Revelation 13: (the following quote is from the New International Version):
"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."
Rev. 13, verses 16-17.
Indeed, verses 16-17 are not mentioned at any point in the entire article about Mark of the Beast, but these two verses comprise about two-thirds of the Biblical material concerning the Mark of the Beast. Bonbga 16:21, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I suggest that the section on Commerce be amended to insert this quotation (or, at least a summary of same) and that an introductory sentence be added to the section explaining that the attempted interpretation of this quotation has led to various theories about its meaning . . . then follow up with the material already presented.
Thoughts?
In Rev 13:9, the author implores to the reader “he who has an ear, let him hear”. So consider the following clues to an understanding of the beasts of Revelation.
In Rev 10, John describes an angel holding a little scroll, with one foot planted in the sea and the other foot planted on the land.
Then in Rev 13, he describes not one, but two beasts, one from the sea and another from the earth. Two Old Testament prophets went to call the people of Nineveh to repent, Jonah from the sea via the belly of a whale as is well known, and then Nahum on the same mission 600 years later from the land. John may have been alluding to the OT prophets when describing the two beasts, but Christ was clearly equated with Jonah (Christ himself suggested he would be in the belly of the earth for three days just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale).
One of the simplest ways to disguise what you are saying is to say exactly the opposite. So consider the decoding of Chapter 13 presented below, remembering of course that as far as the Jewish authorities were concerned, Jesus was a blasphemer (the father and I are one), and contradicted (made war on) the OT ‘saints’ (no longer hate your enemies as they said, but rather love your enemies etc.).
If 333 represents a trinity of trilogies and established in Christ, 666 merely represents twice 333, the second advent of Christ. Any thinking man can see the trick of using the substitution of antonyms, so as to then simply calculate the number of the beast.
As John comments later when explaining the beast in Rev 17:8, the inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come again.
Revelation 13
Just want to point out a mess up. Nero Caesar and Neron Caesar aren't the same thing. The first is his real name and the second is his name with an extra nun. "In Hebrew, "Nero Caesar" is spelled “נרון קסר”, pronounced "Neron Qe[i]sar"." would be the statement I am referring to. Timjohn911 22:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I added this link, and now I am undoing its removal, because it was not a "SPAM" insertion, it explains a viewpoint sustained by thousand of people which consider that the divine can speak to humankind even in our days, through our hearts and minds, not only trough old texts and prophecies. Kryon is perhaps the most known and recognized channelled messenger from angelic beings, in the same way as many "orthodox" religious people consider "normal" to receive messages from angels or God through prophets in a byblical context. I think that no one who respect free expression can consider improper or intrusive this kind of fresh news in a so stuck and manipulative subject. Thank you for respecting this other viewpoint. Gco 06:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
The Number of the Beast (occurrence) articleis in pretty bad shape. Considering recent deletion trends on Wikipedia, it might be wise to re-merge that article, or else move it to a Talk subpage as a kind of "holding cell" for material of unclear relevance that lacks cites as to their importance. Any thoughts? SnowFire 21:50, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Neron Cæsar, or nrwn qsr, wouldn't be 666, because according to gematria, when the letter Nun appears a second time in a word, it is known as a "Final", and takes the value of 700. Thus nrwn qsr would be 1316, not 666. If the number is accepted to be anything but 616, which would be nrw qsr, then the number can't refer to Nero. Timjohn911 22:04, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
The article doesnot mention anything about ancient Babylonian(todays Iraq) God and its relation with 666. Someone should add something regarding it. -- Itsalif 23:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Certainly this is a very valid "Other Interpretation" which stands completely on it's own in just one paragraph. If there is a section entitled "Other Interpretations" then this entry is valid complete with references to a book which has a circulation of over 6 million called "Jehovah's Witnesses- Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" as well as implied references to the bible scriptures themselves. Everything written here is true. How can it therefore be an attack?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.135.64.116 ( talk • contribs) 14:23, 27 September 2007
What about to add such item with link http://my666.boom.ru/666_en.html FYI, This article is much more reliable than even bible!
That speaks AntiChrist, who was born to be free! Who was born under sign 666!!!
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickols k ( talk • contribs) 08:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
ωδε η σοφια εστιν ο εχων νουν ψηφισατω τον αριθμον του θηριου αριθμος γαρ ανθρωπου εστιν και ο αριθμος αυτου χξς. Try to learn Greek and translate the word ψηφισατω. Is it count, or is it vote ? There is no one who refuses that the word "ψηφισάτω" also means "vote". At the same time everyone who translates the Bible in English translates it as "count" or "calculate". I mean everybody, and this is very strange, really. If the writer really wanted to say "count" he could use a lot of other synonyms, like "μετρησάτω", "υπολογισάτω" e.t.c. But if he wanted to say "vote", there is only one way to say it, it is "ψηφισάτω". How do you explain the fact that , although everyone knows that "ψηφισάτω" also means vote, none dares to translate it like that? Before translating the bible, let me remind you how serious the translation is. Let me remind you the curse of the writer of the apocalypse: "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the wood of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book"—Preceding unsigned comment added by Xicsies ( talk • contribs) 07:42, 16 November 2007
First of all, it is very important to sign your comments. This was other users can keep track of who is saying what. In fact, this is a requirement for using talk pages, and is written on the top of every talk page edit window (This is a talk page. Please respect the talk page guidelines, and remember to sign your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~).)
Next, when you say But among millions of different English translations of the bible, there is no one saying that "vote" may be the alternative translation. this is the exact reason why we cannot make your changes. Wikipedia is not the place to publish original thought, because we have policies against original research. We also must give all notable views due weight, according to our neutral point of view policy. Therefore, if, in your own words, "millions of different English translations of the bible" say something, and "no one" is saying what you want to put in the article, then we clearly are giving undue weight to a fringe view. We can only try to accurately represent the majority, which we both agree is clearly not "vote". On top of that, all content needs to be verifiable. We must have a reliable source which states that this particular passage can be translated X. We currently cite the KJV, which is one of the most common translations of the bible in English. Trying to cite a Greek dictionary cannot work here, because it is original research, especially in light of the fact that the vast majority of scholars and bible translations use a different definition. Please take all of this under consideration, and try to understand what wikipedia is. Wikipedia is not the place to publish your own theories, nor is it the place to try to correct some sort of translation error that you, and you alone have caught. Thanks.- Andrew c [talk] 15:38, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
The correct form in greek numerals is χξϛʹ: χʹ ( chi)=600, ξʹ ( xi) =60 and ϛʹ ( stigma) =6. The sign following the last numeral [ʹ] is keraia, a prime, which indicates that the preceding letters function as numerals. Although the prime might not be necessary in english context, as it's quite clear that χξϛ is a number, not some greek word, it is crucial that we use the correct character for the number 6: ϛ, called στίγμα (stigma, capital in Unicode: Ϛ) is the greek numeral for 6, whereas ς is the final sigma (Σ σ ς) which is only used at the end of words instead of lowercase sigma. The similarity of the two glyphs can be quite confusing, but the former is drawn with a longer top stroke, whereas the latter has a shorter stroke with a serif. When capitalised ς becomes Σ. Σ has a numeral value of 200 not 6. Check Greek numerals for more... Propago ( talk) 22:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Should there be a reference to Diocletian? According to this BBC article he has been linked to the number. It doesn't give any ref for its info though. Malick78 ( talk) 15:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
The 666 number calculated by English Gematria based on the English alphabet x6 has some other key values which have the same values. But to get more insight into this the bigger picture needs to be considered. For example Jesus in Greek, the language the New Testament was written in, has the value of 888 in Greek Gematria, which is translated from Greek to English letter by letter as IESOUS.
So the key value of 888 means something significant and should be considered if it comes up. In the English Gematria x 6 key values of 888 come up.
English Gematria = 888
Scriptures = 888
Old Testament = 888
Gods Anointing = 888
Language Miracles = 888
Antichrist Code = 888 (code to calculate the antichrist/beast)
Another value of significance are same values, such as the value for Jesus = 444 in the English Gematria.
Jesus = 444
English = 444
Gematria = 444
The Key = 444
Jewish = 444
Messiah = 444
Cross = 444
Gospel = 444
Ruler = 444
Beast Code = 444
DCLXVI = 444 (666 in Roman numerals)
Cross reference to ASCII code has lower case "holy" = 444.
With putting this computer code into a program, the programmer easily will use the ASCII code. The letter "A" in ascii code has the value of 65. As the English Gematria x 6 starts with A=1 then x6 which is 6, and continues to Z=26 then x 6 which is 156. God = 156 in this, and has the quote as being the Alpha and the Omega, which are the first and last Greek alphabet letters, to signify "I am the Beginning and the End".
So in order to use ASCII code the letter "A" needs to be made to equal 1, then multiplied by 6. The value of "A" is 65 and so simply subtracting 64 gives the value of 1. Since all the letters are in order, they will automatically fit this simple formula. But to go further, all characters from ASCII can be inherited to this same formula. The only catch is that those values below 65 will now have a negative or zero value as for the "@" character.
All the numbers such as 1, 2, 3, etc have these values in ASCII 1 = 49 2 = 50 3 = 51
When subtracting 64 from these they become negatives, with 49 - 64 = -15 and 50 - 64 = -14. These will in fact subtract from the tally instead of add to it, so a function called absolute value will add them up together.
However do note that the equals sign "=" has the value of 61 in ascii, and subtracting 64 gives it the value of 3. Multiplied by 6 it is 18.
From here note that 888 + 18 = 906. In this same English Gematria x 6, we get some interesting key words of the value of 906.
Holy Spirit = 906
Jesus Christ = 906
Jesus is Lord = 906
Code Programmer = 906
Also note that 18 is 6+6+6 and is showing equals as pointing to 666 from another angle. And also that the letter "C" = 18, and the modern shortened text message short hand uses the letter "C" to mean "SEE" as in the use your eyes to see something, or to conceptually SEE something with the understanding of your mind.
Another point to note, with the inherited ascii code characters, the quotes character (") also gets a value and is often used to show the containment of key words such as... "IESOUS" = 888 including the two quotes!
So these signs within the English Language show a design for this to be so embedded into the English language at the creation of the English Alphabet. However, do note, that English is a newer language, and in fact is using the LATIN ALPHABET, with very slight evolution of the letter U inserted beside V.
So this design means that something intelligent has wanted these things to be revealed in the time of the computers, with foreknowledge that English will be a common language.
So who or what could do such a thing? Is it beyong ancient man to do this maths for the Gematria? Does it prove that there is God just because it exists? Does it prove that Jesus is not a myth and is very real?
Another thing now all characters will ahve a value in this Beast Code, (used to calculate the number of the beast) with the 888 value showing some divine seal values.
By subtraction we get some interesting values with the key verse to Calculate the number of the beast in Revelation 13:18 with it also mentioning the value of 666 as being the number of a man. "Revelation 13:18" minus "666" = 888!!!
These would tend to suggest that this coded gematria has a divine seal to be the code to reveal the antichrist/beast with the number 666.
However other factors show that ASCII code which is case sensitive, having both lower case and upper case (captital letters), and in this development of ASCII, first capital letters were used on the early computers such as the Commodore 64 and the TRS-80 Radio Shack computers.
In this HOLY BIBLE = 666, which suggests that even though the bible itself warns of the 666, that the bible itself is actually used by the antichrist to do the opposite of Christ's original message, which was to love one another. To love our enemies. To forgive others. In fact Jesus said by their fruits you shall know my disciples, by their love one for another. In the bigger picture, this is the true spiritual battle of hearts and minds, by being an example of this love. Indeed loving our neighbour as ourself is the key cornerstone of good will to others without any double standards nor hypocrisy, but all as equals.
Jesus finished by saying love one another as I have loved you.
By which, if the words of Jesus were put into practice by all who are supposed to follow his ways, they would not be taking up weapons and waging war for bloodshed, but instead being living examples of peace by kindness and good will to all mankind. Thus put into practice would be Jesus words seeds bearing fruit as they become ripe for the harvest, with the harvest being that all would then have the mind of Christ. And would reject the ideas of bloodshed and war as by the antichrist. With the verse from Isaiah coming to pass whereby it says,
"they shall beat their swords into pruning hooks and they shall war no more."
Which might well be achieved if all the money spent on war budgets and military equipment went towards feeding the world in good will, then none would have any reason to wage war.
As for some idea of how the English Language and the English bible came to be you can see these in a 2 part YouTube video exerps from a documentary of "A Journey in English". click on the following link to see this 2 part video which is less than 20 minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WagGv_Qdmfc