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Tim Russert is dead. Nandor1 ( talk) 19:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how Eddie Murphy got his nameItalic textbla bla blaaaa. Only a skilled researcher could establish that, and no one in their right mind would take his or her time to do the research except a member of the family involved.
BUT many African-Americans have Irish names, which seems odd, because there can't have been that many actually Irish slave owners, can there? The big waves of Irish immigration only came at the last 20 years of slavery in the U.S. Scots came over earlier and I would suggest also that some of the names may be not Irish but Scottish in origin. Hard to tell them apart at times.
I would suggest ways some people may have gotten their seemingly Irish surnames.
1) Taking the owner's name upon emancipation, for want of another surname. 2) Taking the name of a Union soldier who freed them? 3) Africans had no surnames that survived slavery, but Irishmen were also slaves and their surnames may have survived since they mostly spoke at least some English. They may have taken the names of the Irish slaves they lived with/married, etc. (English slavers sold as many as 100,000 Irish, as well as some Scots and Englishmen, into slavery, mainly in the Carribbean, but also in North America. Redneck is an African slave term for the sunburnt Irish slaves.)
I am not a wikipedia expert, but obviously Lapsed Pacifist is only here to sabotage this page as he continues to try and claim Eddie Murphy to be Irish. If there is any Wikipedia expert or administrator that views this, is there a way to ban Lapsed Pacifist from editing this page? 64.109.253.204
Now according to Lapsed Pacifist and Wikipedia, Ella Fitzgerald, Jimi Hendrix, Billie Holiday, Alex Haley, Ishmael Reed, Alice Walker are Irish-Americans. 64.109.253.204
If Lapsed Pacifist isn't banned from editing this page, than wikipedia is really just a joke. 64.109.253.204
Alphabetical. The lists were alphapbetical by last name.
Any help with this would be very much appreciated. As would adding this page to the "lists of Americans by ethnicity" (as Italian-American, Iranian-American, etc are). - johnhpaulin
People don't read the list as alphabetical in current format I would suggest adopting a lastname, firstname middle initial (if any). This will make it clear, easier to find a name you may be interested in, and Make it easier to place in new names in the proper place. SusanLarson 5 July 2005 06:14 (UTC)
I'm not an expert. I just normally think of alphabetical being about the last name. My personal preference is alphabetical by last name, like it was, but I am just one person. I feel kind of bad that you did all the work to make the lists alphabetical by first name, but now it is how it used to be.
From Literature * Tom Clancy, novelist * James T. Farrell, novelist * F. Scott Fitzgerald, novelist * Cormac McCarthy, novelist * Tim O'Brien, novelist * Flannery O'Connor, short story writer * Eugene O'Neill, playwright to Literature * Clancy, Tom, Novelist * Farrell, James T, Novelist * Fitzgerald, F. Scott, Novelist * McCarthy, Cormac, Novelist * O'Brien, Tim, Novelist * O'Connor, Flannery, Short story writer * O'Neill, Eugene, Playwright
That is how most people naturally want to read a list of names. SusanLarson 5 July 2005 06:35 (UTC)
This would more accurately be ascribed to Esek Hopkins, "On December 22, 1775, Esek Hopkins was appointed the Naval Commander-in-Chief, and officers of the Navy were commissioned." Suggest removing it from John Barry and replacing it with "An officer in the Continental Navy and later in the United States Navy" SusanLarson 5 July 2005 06:19 (UTC)
Eddie Murphy is not Irish, Lapsed Pacifist, and you know he is not Irish. Why do you continue to put him on the list? The joke is getting old.
I assure you I am not attempting any "joke". None of the people on this list are Irish nationals, they are United States citizens of Irish descent. If you know of another country where people called Murphy come from, I'd really love to know about it.
Lapsed Pacifist 5 July 2005 06:45 (UTC)
Eddie Murphy is African-American.
What makes someone an Irish national? What list are you talking about?
Murphy is part African-American. Many other people on the list have some mixed ancestry. I find your reverts sinister, to say the least. An Irish national is a
citizen of
Ireland. It's in Europe.
Lapsed Pacifist 5 July 2005 06:58 (UTC)
Kevin McBride, Tom Sharkey, P.H. McCarthy, Hugh O'Brien, William O'Dwyer are on the list and they were all born in Ireland.
Eddie Murphy is mostly African-American and there is no way of knowing if he has any Irish ancestry.
His name suggests to me he has at least some Irish ancestry, unless you can prove otherwise. If you want to exclude him because of his mixed ancestry, you would have to apply the same principle to the rest of the list, which would shorten it considerably. Can you prove beyond doubt that every other person on the list is definitely of Irish descent?
Lapsed Pacifist 5 July 2005 07:12 (UTC)
Murphy was his slave name.
I presume you mean his family's slave name. You sound confident, so prove it. Otherwise he stays in, along with all the others who are not 100% ethnically Irish.
Lapsed Pacifist 5 July 2005 07:22 (UTC)
All the others are known to be Irish. Eddie Murphy is not known to be Irish. The others that are not 100% Irish still know of their Irish heritage, talk of their Irish heritage. Your argument is just ridiclious.
Eddie Murphy is just not Irish and there is no proof to him being Irish. There is proof to everyone else on the list to being Irish. You are just being an idiot saying we should take off everyone that is not 100% ethnically Irish. If we put on Eddie Murphy, than why not put the names of every American on the list, for the slim chance they might have some irish roots.
Lapsed, I can prove to you everyone on this list is Irish. You cannot prove that Eddie Murphy is Irish.
Lapsed, you haven't responded to this because my point is too good for you to argue. You should just realize when you are wrong and not be childish about it.
Why remove Murphy when no "proof" has been offered for the other entries? Where are the sources for the Irish ancestry of the rest of the list? Who will provide proof, "preferably statements" by themselves, or "a reputable biographer"? And what exactly are the criteria for the list? Would one Irish ancestor be enough? Would a potential entry have to be at least one-sixteenth Irish, or one-eighth?
Lapsed Pacifist 7 July 2005 00:42 (UTC)
Proof for all the others is mostly common knowledge and in many cases can be found on there page. Lapsed Pacifist, do you really need proof that John F. Kennedy is Irish? 64.109.253.204
Hello, I am new here, so perhaps my addition is done incorrectly. I am of Irish descent myself, and I know this, being a 2nd (or 3rd) generation American. All of my grandparents came from Ireland. Now, in examining this page, it seems to me that, without asking the theoretical question "Who is of Irish descent", it is, on this page, anyone with any traceable ancestry to that island, and that some of the names on this page look like people who simply have an Irish (or Irish sounding) last name. Establishing someone’s ancestry takes more than that. Many Americans of East European, Germanic, and French descent, for instance, have Anglicized their names in order to “fit in” better with their new surroundings. African-Americans, in particular, are a difficult subject (in this regard) since, during the period of slavery in the South, slaves were not, contrary to popular opinion, given family names by their masters. Apparently, slave owners wanted to suppress the notion of family ties among their slaves. This is because the owners viewed their slaves as property and wanted to be able to sell them at any time, individually, without creating any undue emotional stress upon, or resistance from, those to whom the sold slave may have been connected by familial bonds. The slaves, in response, secretly gave themselves last names, which they chose, in order to concrete their familial bond. To claim, in other words, that Eddie Murphy, for instance, is of partial Irish descent, merely on the basis of his last name is ridiculous. Perhaps it would be better to ask him if this is true. And to ask, as well, of the others who are listed here if they know of any Irish ancestry on their part?
Okay, and Sean Combs is English, Venus and Vanessa Williams are Welsh, and Sidney Poitier is obiously French. And Jon Stewart is undoubtedly a Scots-American, because that's his last name. Ever consider the fact that most African-American surnames are assumed ones, either in the form of former slave-names, or after whatever homestead they acquired when freed. And regarding John Leibowitz/Stewart, celebrities often assume easily palatable "white bread" names, because Mr. Schwarzenegger aside, consonant clusters and Zs in a name are a hindrance to fame.
www.boxing-memorabilia.com/aliirish.htm
I was skeptical. However, this explains it fairly well and is reputable. I was going to revert my change, but LP beat me too it. Wikibofh 7 July 2005 03:55 (UTC)
I wouldn't be suprised if LP was unaware of this and now regrets listing him because it turns out he is actually Irish.
See also http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/cns/2002-03-13/176.asp
Lapsed Pacifist 7 July 2005 03:59 (UTC)
Is poker considered a sport? Right now Dan Harrington is listed in others. 64.109.253.204
Should the Scotch-Irish really be included on this list? 64.109.253.204
I think Scotch-Irish are ethnically Scottish. 64.109.253.204
Are Scotch-Irish really Irish though?
what are Scotch-Irish ? surely it is Scots-Irish ? palx
64.109.253.204
REPLY - The Correct term is Scots-Irish. This refers to people specifically from the 9 Northern Counties of the Province of Ulster in Ireland today 6 of Which are called "Northern Ireland" and are a part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. People who are classified as "Scots-Irish" (note Scotch is not the correct term for people from Scotland and is offensive) These Scots-Irish people are descended from the Ulster plantations by King James I who in order to try and solve the "Irish" problem simply took the land off the native catholic Irish and turned it over to new Protestant settelers from Scotland - over the interveining centuries the people of Ulster that were predominantly Roman Catholic became mixed with Scottish settlers that were predominantly Presbyterian (Protestant), during the Highland Clearances after the Battle of Culloden in the 18th Century many (Catholic) Highland families such as the Campbells and MacDonalds chose to settle in Ulster rather than cross over to America and Canada. Northern Ireland has a distinct local accent that is similar to both Southern Irish and Scottish. There is a particular English dialect spoken in Northern Ireland that is called Ulster Scots. In addition it is also necessaary to point out that there is a very close affinity between people from Scotland and people from Ireland in that they are both "Celtic" people and were at one time the same people all originally coming from Ireland both sharing, language and culture and genetically the same - the marked difference between the countires happened during the Reformation when Scotland became a Protestant country while Ireland remaned Catholic. In America particularly Scottish and Irish people both representing large waves of immigration to the country during the early 18th Century did mix on a large scale and thus the term Scots-Irish developed that is specifically used for those early settlers that were predominantly Protestant from Northern Ireland speaking "Ulster-Scots" settled mainly in the original 13 colonies has now been applied to people that have both a Scottish and an Irish ancestry but not a Northern Irish ancesty as the term implies. To further confuse the situation Scots-Irish is a term normally used by Protestants to define their Northern Irish heritage whereas Catholics from Northern Ireland simply refer to themselves as "Irish". An example of this is Judy Garland whose maternal line is distinctly Scottish from Ardbroath and Kilmarnock (names Milne and Kelso) and Irish from Dublin and Meath (names Fitzpatrick and Harriott) but is oftern mistakingly classified as Scots-Irish. Andrew Jackson and Thomas Jefferson were "Scots-Irish" as their ancestry was from Northern Ireland Stephen Boyd, the Actor from Belfast, county Antrim was "Scots-Irish" yet Liam Neeson also from County antrim Northern Ireland woudl not be considered Scots-Irish but rather simply "Irish" because he is Catholic. Scots-irish people are Irish Americans but can also be a individual list as there is much documnetation and histrorical research on this particular group that is specific to Northern Ireland heritage. 86.12.253.32
Well according to Lapsed Pacifist everyone in America is Irish-American until proven otherwise without any possible doubt.
Scots-Irish Americans are descended from Scottish settlers who immigrated to Ulster during the 17th Century [Plantation Period]. Till this day, in [Ulster], they are culturally and linguistically distinct from the native Irish population. As a Scots- Irish American I am offended by the ignorance of the Irish-American community.[Jack Higgins] October 2005
Scots-Irish are not Irish, they do not consider themselves Irish there is a long history of animosity between the Irish and Scots-Irish (protestants from Scotland put in Ireland by the English), the Northern Ireland issue is because these two groups hate each other. There should be a seperate list for Scots-Irish people and one list for actual Irish Catholic (I know not all Irish people are Catholic but how can you say 'real' Irish without offending anyone). Scots-Irish are totally different, get them off this list
It is apparent that Lapsed Pacifist's intent here is to include a number of African-Americans in this list. Lapsed Pacifist, what is your reason or justification for doing so? Have they claimed Irish origins? Have others claimed it for them (aside from Ali)? Jayjg (talk) 8 July 2005 22:14 (UTC)
We need to have Lapsed Pacifist banned from editing this page. That is the only solution. 64.109.253.204
I would much prefer Lapsed Pacifist explaining his edits. Jayjg (talk) 8 July 2005 22:39 (UTC)
Lapsed Pacifist won't post here because what he is doing is wrong and he can't argue it. 64.109.253.204
My "intent" here is to add Irish-Americans I am aware of to the list. I have added many who are 100% ethnically Irish as well as those of mixed ancestry. I don't believe I require any special "reason or justification" for doing so. If it is necessary for all entries on the list to have stressed their origins, then sources should indeed be provided. Ali's Irish heritage was not "claimed" for him by others, he spoke of it with Irish journalists when he visited Ireland.
Lapsed Pacifist 8 July 2005 23:01 (UTC)
Just from a brief look around the net, it looks like Hendrix was mentioned to be a decendant of a part Irish grandmother (Hey! I read it on the Internet!!). I would think that would at least buy him admission to the page. I'm sure that there are many black Americans who can claim Irish ancestry. It would be nice to see some cites though. If they're legit, then the more, the merrier . Sublium 21:25, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Here's a cite for the Hendrix claim. Here's a quote from the following book: "Jimi Hendrix The Man, the Magic, the Truth" by Sharon Lawrence ISBN: 0060562994; Imprint: HarperEntertainment; [1]
[Nora Moore was Jimi Hendrix' grandmother]: "Nora Moore, the daughter of a full-blooded Cherokee mother and an Irish father." So by this account, Jimi's paternal grandmother was 1/2 Irish. Is that enough to get him in the club? Sublium
I would like to add some anicdotal evidence with regards Hendrix - my grandmother once inform me that a family in her village in Sligo were related to Jimi Hendrix's family, again totally anicdotal and I never passed much heed of it until I read this Vintagekits 23:10, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
He does not need to have any extra personal information about him on this list. His biography is on his page. There are other bishops on this list and they do not have part extra information about them on here. The information Lapsed Pacifist is trying to add is also not associated with his Irish-American ancestry, so it makes really no sense at all being mentioned on this this. Lapsed Pacifist, it's mentioned in his page, no reason for it to be on here. 64.109.253.204
I'd like to officially propose the following for inclusion on this page.
Anyone who does not meet 1 or 2 would be removed. Comments? Votes? I think this would help with some of the disputes we see here.
Wikibofh 9 July 2005 05:21 (UTC)
Lapsed Pacifist will still break these rules. The only way to stop him is to ban him from editing this page. I agree with them though. 64.109.253.204
Also, Lapsed Pacifist would be too afraid to edit the pages of any of the African-Americans he is adding to this list to say they are Irish-American. 64.109.253.204
I think that's too strict. For example, a person could be 100% ethnically Irish, but if all their ancestors came to the U.S. more than four generations ago, they would not be eligible for inclusion.
Lapsed Pacifist 9 July 2005 07:29 (UTC)
Your criteria would shrink the list. Many of the people listed here have no reference to their ethnicity in their articles (some of which are very short), and it would be difficult to confirm the exact ancestry of some lesser-known figures.
Lapsed Pacifist 9 July 2005 14:47 (UTC)
I agree with criteria in principle, it would indeed be a good thing to know where we're coming from. My main problem with some current editors is that they seem to be jumping on any entries with obvious African ancestry, demanding sources, reverting etc., while no other entries, however mixed their ancestries, receive the same scrutiny or provoke such emotion. One example is Albert Finney, an English actor I have just removed from the list. I myself put him in a while ago, thinking he was Irish-American. No-one blinked. If criteria are agreed upon and introduced, all current editors should weed out all of their own entries that do not comply. A belated thank you for your apology on the Ali entry, by the way. It pointed up sharply differences between your approach and that of others.
Lapsed Pacifist 9 July 2005 15:18 (UTC)
This only has to apply for those that are disputed. Some people are obviously Irish, some people are obviously not Irish. This should be a way to keep the people that aren't Irish off the list.
Lapsed, this is also not an African-American page, it is an Irish-American page, you want to treat it as if it's an African and Irish page because you probably have hatred for both groups, but you need to leave it at Irish and if something isn't associated to the Irish, leave it off.
Also Lapsed, if I revert something you do or add something, you should not revert it. I have contributed more to this list than anyone else and have not done anything to sabotage it. If you revert what I do it is just plain rude.
64.109.253.204
Clawson has removed people that are Irish-Americans. Lapsed Pacifist has added white people to the list that do not have Irish ancestry. The only way to solve this is, ban Lapsed Pacifist, therefore stopping the non-Irish entries. Also, to stop following strict rules that would enable people to remove actual Irish-Americans. 64.109.253.204
The page now has two people vandalizing it. Lapsed Pacifist is adding people that aren't Irish-Americans. Clawson is removing people that are Irish-Americans.
1001 Everyone Shoukld Know About Irish-Ameircan History by Edward T. O'Donnell.
Clawson, I've added more to this list than anyone else, all my entrieis are legit. I am not here to cause trouble like Lapsed Pacifist, so please just leave my entries alone.
A requests for comment has been filed here concerning Lapsed Pacifist's editing of this article. If you have been involved in editing this article, you are encourged to comment. func (talk) 02:30, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
I have been involved in editing this article more than anyone else and it isn't fair that Lapsed Pacifist can ruin all the work I have done. 64.109.253.204
I endorsed it.
Should a section be added for models? 64.109.253.204 06:32, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Should the politics list be divided up by the profession? I was thinking of creating a seperate section for Mayors. Should the politics list be made into different lists of Congressmen, Senators, Mayors, Governors, Presidents, and Others? 64.109.253.204 06:35, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
She's half Irish. She is 50*% Irish, 50% Hispanic. 64.109.253.204 20:40, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a good source for information. imdb.com 64.109.253.204 01:37, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Having a parent from Ireland is not required to be 50% Irish. 64.109.253.204 03:37, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
If you have two grandparents from Ireland, than you would be 50% Irish. You could also have 4 Great Grandparents from Ireland to be 50% Irish. 64.109.253.204 06:44, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
What about dividing politics, making a seperate list for mayors? 64.109.253.204 14:48, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
I know that this question might go unanswered, but Milton McCrory was a famous African American boxer who reigned as world Welterweight champion from 1983 until late in 1985, when dethroned by Donald Curry. His brother, Steve (+2001), was an Olymoic medalist who once unsuccessfully challenged Jeff Fenech for the world Bantamweight title. I was always curious, and this coming from a guy that knows A LOT about boxing (almost as much as I know about my favorite icon, Madonna's clothing!) I need to ask if anyone out there has concrete information that let us know whether the McCrory brothers were of some Irish descent or this was a slave trade name given to their ancestors.
Antonio Holy St. Patrick!!!!! Martin
According to Golbez having an Irish father and living most your life in the USA should not be enough to be on this list. He said the list has stupidly broad requirements. Golbez, please explain what you meant. 64.109.253.204 19:52, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Anthony Quinn having an Irish father, making him 50% Irish should be well enough to be on the list. There are other people on the list that have mixed ancestry. I feel you only questioned Anthony Quinn because he is mixed with something other than European.
Don't complain to me about Muhammad Ali and the people with little Irish ancestry. That is Lapsed Pacifist's doing. 64.109.253.204 01:04, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
No. It's unrelated to this topic. 64.109.253.204 02:31, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
OK, this has gone far enough.
I went to high school with Derek Jeter's younger sister. I know his family. NO ONE in his family self-identifies as Irish in even a remote way. Someone had better have a really damn good source for this one, and it had better trump personal first-hand knowledge of Derek and his family.— chris.lawson ( talk) 01:51, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
I've always heard Derek Jeter being Irish. I can use many sources for it. Do you have a source that proves he is not Irish? 64.109.253.204 02:32, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
64.109.253.204 05:44, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
That's a kind of progress, I guess: the
One-drop rule as applied to Irishness. --
Calton |
Talk 14:01, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
None of that makes one whit of difference if his family does not self-identify as being Irish. And they don't.— chris.lawson ( talk) 17:25, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
What if someone was 100% ethnically Irish but did not identify as such?
Lapsed Pacifist 17:36, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Maybe the list would be better if another list was added specific for African-Americans with Irish ancestry. 64.109.253.204 15:09, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Or a list of Irish-Americans with African ancestry?
Lapsed Pacifist 15:24, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
I don't think we should get quite that technical. Unless you feel strongly about it...?
Lapsed Pacifist 19:33, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Don't let me get in your way.
Lapsed Pacifist 19:44, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Well anyone, I'm departing this page. Sorry I ever got involved :D -- Golbez 20:53, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
I would add a rider to 3), namely that the person at one tme or another must have made reference to his or her Irish ancestry. Otherwise I could'nt agree more.
Lapsed Pacifist 21:32, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
http://kingsley.vic.edu.au/glenobrien/historylecture8.htm http://www.ulster-scots.co.uk/docs/articles/historical/irishinthecsa.htm http://www.talfanzine.net/sectarianism.htm http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.pl?articleID=923&terms= http://members.tripod.com/~Scott_Michaud/Smyth-history.html http://www.sfredheritage.on.ca/emburys.html http://www.yale.edu/glc/tangledroots/ http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/irish/famous.html http://www.theirishshow.com/press_release.htm http://www.famousamericans.net/philipembury/ http://www.mixedfolks.com/books4.htm http://www.scstatehouse.net/sess116_2005_2006/bills/395.htm http://www.beer-bytch.com/irishhistry.htm http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/jam3.html http://baltimoreabout.com/cs/famouspeople/a/aa021403a.htm http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08132b.htm http://users.ev1.net/~gpmoran/CeltChron5.htm http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998/07/29/ED83401.DTL http://www.dedanaan.com/untilled-fields-of-irish-history/a-celtic-chronology/18/ http://www.dedanaan.com/untilled-fields-of-irish-history/a-celtic-chronology/19/ http://www.dedanaan.com/untilled-fields-of-irish-history/a-celtic-chronology/20/ http://www.1st2inspire.co.uk/destinyinhishands.php http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1264/is_n10_v22/ai_11812537 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?/page=gr&GRid=10814&pt=John%20Adams http://www.ulsterflash.iofm.net/irishcsa.htm http://www.ststp.com/Archives/Genealogy/Charts/AlexHaley/ http://members.fortunecity.com/mcbride_clan/history1.htm
[ Jimi Hendrix Irish Ancestry]
Lapsed Pacifist 01:13, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
It would indeed. What would help even more would be if users researched contentious entries before unthinkingly blanking them.
Lapsed Pacifist 01:22, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Those sources are no good. It reveals that the African-Americans you are trying to add have Irish ancestry, but nowhere near as much Irish ancestry as anyone else on the list. 64.109.253.204 18:31, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
I had sources for Derek Jeter and it appears he has an Irish grandparent. That isn't too distant. 64.109.253.204 05:27, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
All these people were Irish-Americans and Lapsed Pacifist removed them from the list. 64.109.253.204 06:07, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I think most of them are problaby Irish, but I am going to check them out before I add them to the list. If anyone here has any knowledge on any of them, that would help. 64.109.253.204 06:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
I created a list of Irish-American mayors, Irish-American Mayors, and right after I created it, Lapsed Pacifist started adding non-sense to it. Putting people with no Irish ancestry on it. The list also is not a list of people with any Irish ancestry, but a list of actual Irish-American mayors. 64.109.253.204 08:29, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Can anybody provide reliable evidence showing that mr Disney had Irish blood?
His father was Irish-Canadian, his mother was German-American. 64.109.253.204 20:21, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
Are Irish-born Irish-Americans not allowed on this list? I added several and Lapsed Pacifist reverted all my edits. 64.109.253.204 18:13, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
Why are you calling my reverts vandalism? I check this talk page and I don't see anything that proves Billie Holliday was Irish!! -- Hottentot
Having like 1% Irish ancestry does not make a person an Irish-American. Billie Holiday can be on a list of people with Irish ancestry, but not a list of Irish-Americans. 64.109.253.204 03:40, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Why is the list ------ anyway? If the list didn't have these African-Americans who are not Irish-Americans, the list wouldn't be ------. 64.109.253.204 20:48, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
This list should be moved to a new page List of Americans with Irish Ancestry. That way Lapsed Pacifist and his types can add all the non-Irish-Americans they want and this list can be for serious Irish-Americans. 64.109.253.204 19:51, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
I moved non-Irish-Americans to a section called "Irish Ancestry". The people I moved there really do not belong on the list at all, I think people that want them on the list should take this compromise of them being in a special section.
The people who want them on the list are not happy though and are vandalizing the list by adding people who are 100%, 50%, and 25% Irish to the list of minor Irish ancestry. 64.109.253.204 06:23, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Indeed, Ben and casey Affleck are 50% Irish, yet they are on the "Irish Ancestry" selection. I'll put them back
How is it that this article still disputed? It seems that everyone on the page is Irish-American. There seems to be a whole lot of stink over very little real "controversy". This mark seriously needs to be removed. Nobody will ever agree 100% on a list of famous Irish-Americans, but those people who have views well outside the norm will simply need to keep their own list and host it, since it's the only way they will ever be happy. 71.129.111.0 04:56, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Can anyone find me any evidence to support this? I always thought that he was Scottish, rather than Irish (unsigned edit by Johnpaulin)
Jim Morrison was Lapsed Pacifist's add, not mine. 64.109.253.204 07:51, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
It's fairly well known that Paul Newman's mother is Irish-American, stop reverting my edits.
I am honestly sorry - it is fairly well known - and is on a lot of websites. But it is incorrect.
Someone submitted it to the IMDB and it got spread around the net. She isn't Irish at all.
She was born in Hungary. Her name is Theresa Fetsko - later apparently changed to Fetzer. Look up a few book bios of Newman and you will find that information.
I am also going to give you a link to geneology.com - which has a Newman family tree. Not a drop of Irish blood, unfortunately. http://www.genealogy.com/famousfolks/paul-newman/index.htm#toc
"Second Generation 2. Arthur S.2 Newman (Simon3) was born in Ohio ca 1894.(1) Arthur died bef 14 May 1950 in prob Shaker Heights, Cuyahoga, Ohio, at approximately 55 years of age.(2)
He married Theresa Fetsko ca 1915.(3) Theresa was born in Hungary 25 Jul 1896.(4) Theresa was the daughter of Stephen Fetsko and Mary Polenak. Theresa died 13 Aug 1982 in Riverside County, California, at 86 years of age.(5)
Arthur S. Newman and Theresa Fetsko had the following children:
3 i. Arthur S.1 Newman Jr. was born in Ohio ca 1924.(6)
+ 1 ii. Paul Leonard Newman was born 26 Jan 1925. "
-24.141.149.226
Hungaria is a city in Ireland. 69.216.240.155 00:02, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
I cleaned up this list, deleting actors who are not American (working on an American film does not make you American), and deleting the additional information. I feel that it rather absurd that we can learn that Mary Tyler Moore is "most, but not fully Irish", but the nature or degree of Irish ancestry for say, Richard Nixon or Andrew Jackson. Unless the nature/degree of Irish ancestry for people in every category of the list is specified, I feel that it should not be included only for actors. If people want to research into the ancestry of these figures, they can do it by themselves, on IMDB (which, I suspect, is where most of the information used for these come from).
Are you sure that's a good idea? Maybe we should have the additional info for all people. The list makes it seem like every person listed is more or less 100% Irish-American, and that's not true for a large number of people in the actors category (Downey Jr., Phoenixes, Tyrone Power who are all 1/4 or even less Irish. Even Harrison Ford is just 1/4 Irish - check his Wiki profile). I think we should either take out all people who are less than half Irish ethnically or put those qualifications in so readers don't assume these people are "just Irish". 24.36.160.142 06:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
This article survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. - Splash talk 18:03, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
If we made the "part Irish" into a special section at the bottom, and it would include people of 1/4 or less Irish descent. And then everyone who is "all Irish" or has an Irish parent would be under whichever proper category? Vulturell 03:39, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Vulturell 03:41, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
The list for others was much longer, what happened to everything that was listed there? 70.228.174.42 18:25, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have a source that they are of significant Irish descent? I really couldn't find anything good, so I'll remove them until then. MadJack 07:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
I think these people should just be merged back into the list as I don't see any evidence that their ancestry is any lesser than the people in the main list. Arniep 18:05, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
This list is a complete joke, largely (but not exclusively by any means) thanks to Lapsed Pacifist who regularly writes on Irish matters (I quote "If you know of another country where people called Murphy come from, I'd really love to know about it [so Eddie Murphy must be Irish]") and would add William Brewster, Mickey Mouse, Kunta Kinte and Jesus of Nazareth to this list of they thought they could get away with it.
Apparently, the qualifications required for inclusion in this list are:
As for Eddie Murphy (I'm mostly talking to you again Lapsed Pacifist), let me tell you a little story. I was born in West Sussex, England, UK. So were both my parents. Three of my grandparents were also born in West Sussex, another in Austria. You can trace my line back to the Domesday Book. So, would you say that I am English (with a hint of Austrian)? Of course not: I simply must be Irish because my surname is Kinsella. But why do I have a good, fine Oirish surname, given my lineage? Simple: because my mother divorced my father when I was one year old and married another man with said surname, and that man adopted me, so legally and in practice I took his surname. Hey presto! My ethnic origin suddenly transformed.....my children will be Kinsellas, and the name will run through my heirs for generations to come, and unreconstructed and uneducated idiots will decide our ethnic and cultural identity unilaterally.
As any idiot (except Lapsed Pacifist and some others who "contribute" to this resource) can clearly see, a surname actually means nothing. They come with marriage, remarriage, adoption, and voluntary identity change, as well as birth. Immigrants choose - and have chosen - certain names in order to adopt an identity and/or fit in to a new culture (such as Senator John Kerry's paternal ancestors, German Jews who emmigrated to the US, converted to Catholocism and adopted an Irish surname at Ellis Island, leading Kerry - and others - to claim for a long time without any real evidence that he was an Irish-American). Compare the pitifully and woefully short List of English Americans (in reality the largest ethnic group in America if the same citeria were applied to all ethnic groups), where attempts have been made to place a generational limit on entries there (where is the consistency, Wikipedians?!). Unfortunately, some contributors have also been adding sentences after names which say that although these people are known as English-American, they're Irish really!! Top o' the morrnen' toe ya!
And by the way. A lot of the claims made after each name are not repeated in the individual article for that person - and have a look at Judy Garland, apparently "identified with the culture" (?!). If it isn't cited and included in the "parent" article, it does not belong here, period. So stop adding them, Lapsed Pacifist and others, or do some proper research and amend and cite the person entry. I encourage all users to check the parent articles and delete claims in this list not substantiated or qualified there. 86.17.210.229 11:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
I have done a test to check information included in this list against the information in the standalone entry for the relevant individuals. There are dozens of examples where one or more parent is said to be 'Irish' - i.e. it gives the impression that a mother and/or father was actually born in Ireland, therefore the child's Irish-American credentials are full and indisputable. However, follow the link to the full articles and you find that either there is nothing of their heritage at all, or that the mother and/or father are themselves classified as Irish-American (leading to further questions - how do you know, where is the proof for them, how is this qualified/proved, is it true at all?). So, proof that entries on this list are being 'qualified' with unreliable or misleading details. This list should be deleted, it is ridiculous and is mostly fabrication or assumption. 62.25.106.209 13:01, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Anyone in one of the main sections who was not born in Ireland or to one or more Irish parents must be moved into the section "People with distant Irish ancestry" (i.e. 95% of the list). At the moment many names are repeated in both the profession and distant ancestry lists, which is ridiculous. Even better: make a new "distant ancestry" list.
You can of course be Irish Catholic, but one is not raised Irish Catholic (and one cannot use the latter statement as proof of ancestry - for a start it implies a different type of Catholicism.) "Irish Catholic" describes someone who is Irish or of Irish descent who also practices Catholicism. It's like saying one is raised white or black - one is white or black, it is who you are, not a lifestyle choice or how one is brought up. A Norwegian couple cannot turn round and say "We're going to raise our child as Irish Catholic". You are raised Catholic, and may also be Irish, equalling Irish Catholic.
REPLY - there is a website called Maureen O'Hara Magazine www.moharamagazine.com - that has an article about her Naturalisation as an American Citizen - it is also included in her auto Biography "Tis Herself". I don't mean to be overly critical but but I am sure you agree that some detail is not available on the net and many people who will edit this list will base their edits on their own preferance or opinion and not research further than the first site they can find. I am a professional geneologist and a history lecturer by trade and Wikipedia has been very useful to me and this list in particular was a comprehensive list of Americans with Irish origins - but I do agree that if it is not "documentable" they do not belong but having said that if a person declares themself to be Irish American and they are accepted within that community - they belong on the list as it is more of a mind-set than a reality, especially in the current global cliamte where ethnic idnetity is becoming less relevant.
I reviewd the proposed discussion link relating to criteria and do not disagree except that I do beleive that the criteria needs to be relevant to the person and this is usually dictated by the environment in which they were raised and feel most comfortable e.g they idnetify with it and this identification is documented in some public form. Do you intend to put people back on the list when you decide that the evidence is sufficient? I do not wish to gt into a situation where for instance I put O'Hara and Garland back in and then you remove them again I would rather come to agreement through evidence but according to the criteria proposed that states 3. There is some ethnic ancestry AND proof exists that the person identified with that group above others or singled it out, such as Robert DeNiro for Italian Americans. Both ladies belong back on the list.
REPLY - if you go to Judy Garland the Live Performances web-site http://rainbowz.deltacomm.com/ and click on the Concerts time line for the year 1951 you will see there are 3 articles one from a Dublin Newspaper that states she has an Irish Grandmother (clearly from her own perspective) the second is an Edinburgh Review called "Garlands for Edinburgh" in this review it quotes her as saying "I am Irish and Scots" and also the reviewer makes reference to her "Scottish Complexion that she states is a "Gift from her Irish Grandmother" Remember now she is in Scotland - there is no need to mention Irish yet she clearly chose to mention Irish along with Scots correcting the interviewer by saying it is an "Irish" complexion. Whereas in Ireland she did not mention Scots or Scotland - this indicates what identity she was most comfortable with. There is also a review from Birmingham England about an Irish Party that she attended, that again demonstrates her predisposition to "Irishness". This past Autumn her daughter Lorna Luft was in Ireland (she is a frequent visitor) and she referred to her mother's "Irish temper". Liza Minnelli was a guest a the very first Irish American reception held by the then Mayor of New York City. - In the book The Golden Years her Irish ancestry is discussed and detailed quite extensively, as it is in the Gerold Frank biogrphy Judy which is the only biography that had the full coopertion of her family. - The reality of the situation is that her maternal Grandmother Eva Fitzpatrick (who was 100% Irish) lived with garland until she died at a very old age in the late 1940s this old lady was the matriarch of the very large family and all her numerous Milne-Fitzpatrick cousins referred to themselves as Irish becuase that was the major influence in their lives. In John Frick's recent book Judy in Art and Anecdote he mentions her being "confrotable with her Irishness" and that because of this she added special numbers to particualrt concerts. Sid Luft her husband referred to her as a "Black Irish Witch". There is a wealth of evidence available about her heritage indicating her identification with it albeit in biographys and otehr print not on teh net. Recently there was a television documentary in the UK detailing the Irish Famine and one of the segments discussed descendents of Irish Famine immigrants who became famous and/or successful and Garland was among them in the company of Bing Crosby and Gene Kelly - if you require more detail or advice please let me know I will look through the Irish America article and other sources for an appropriate quote for you to use. I do have a problem with the ease by which entries can be removed and added depending on the whim or interest of an individual and was particularly annoyed at these 2 individuals being removed because in my work their contribution and identification by themselves and the public with Irish American culture has always been obvious and at a higher degree than many individuals who remain on the list without being challenged.
Proposed Guideline for inclusion on this list - It is an interesting that the irish Government recognises anyone with an Irish born Parent, an Irish born Grandparent or an Irish born Great Grandparent as eligible for Irish Citizenship and Irish Passport through documented descent. Therefore if the Irish Government is willing to consider anyone that meets this descent criteria as "Irish" It may be appropriate to apply that same guideline to this list. I agree with a previous poster that sentences and stories after the entries is too much and confusing although a very brief link or comment could be appropriate but this should be limited. Consistency is important and critera should be clear - to avoid entries or removals on whim, opinion or because someone thinks that someone is not "Irish" enough - For instance Liza Minnelli has been removed from the "Distant" section while her sister has remained - they both belong there because the connection to Ireland is clear.
Reply - Well I'm not sure what is right - part of me thinks if it is good enough for a Government to recognise an individual through descent back to a great grandparent then that should be the standard practice for this list and other similar ones that are based on ethnicity. It would be more accurate in that the descent issue is easier to substantiate through research than an individual's personal identification e.g. genealogy, family history and background is far more likely to be detailed in biographies where as an individual’s identification is harder to pin down as it can appear in a variety of sources usually not well publicised or promoted and be more localised that are far more difficult to find; such as newspaper articles, interviews, reviews etc. that are not on the net or readily available and lets face it nowadays most people use the net to source. I do believe also that some contribution to Irish American culture or American culture in general should be considered. Believe me I think what you are doing is a tremendous undertaking and you are very brave to do it simply because your hard work can be (ultimately) trashed by someone who has a different opinion or is less dedicated to verification and simply because of their own limited view decides that someone doesn't belong on the list. I hate to keep harping on the one family but Garland's family is a perfect example of my point. She certainly belongs in the main category under actors because during her heyday she contributed to Irish American Culture through Irish themed songs that were on every jukebox in every Irish Pub through the 1970s, she was a regular guest on fellow Irishman Bing Crosby's radio show during the 1950s singing many Irish songs and often referred to her self as Irish and to her Irish family, incidentally here is a good quote from the article that appeared in Irish America Magazine "She never lost her Celtic soul". However her daughters belong in the Distant section because that is appropriate for them in that they do have substatiated "Distant" Irish heritage and although may not promote it daily have referred to it on occasion and probably more than some entries on the main list. By example; how does one know Lorna Luft does not identity with being Irish? I live in Ireland and she has appeared in concert and on Television in Ireland many times over the years, she starred in the Dublin production of Follies, she lived here for a period and often visits, she has made reference to "the family's Irish charm", and other quotes about about her mother's Irish traits in her book Me and My Shadows, and in interviews in the USA, Ireland and the UK, she has appeared at Irish charity performances in New York with Irish entertainers and a famous photograph of her by Scuvello that appeared on the cover of Interview Magazine pictured her in a green sequined outfit holding a huge shamrock! She is first and foremost American but certainly has demonstrated an appreciation for her Irish heritage as well as that of her father who was of Russian/German Jewish decent but she is Episcopal like her mother and sister but yet is listed in a wikipedia list as a "Jewish Female singer" should I delete her from that list? I don't think so the wider issue is that each list should require the editor to give a reason why the individual they are proposing should be on the list. Liza Minnelli is as much Irish as she is Italian in that she had only 1 Italian Grandparent and 1 Irish Grandparent and while she wasn't raised in either a "Italian or Irish " family environment she is aware of her heritage. She was quoted in an early London Times interview after Cabaret stating "I'm Italian, Irish and French" obviously choosing to omit Scottish as her "French" Grandmother was also half Scottish. Since then she has appeared at many Italian and Irish American functions and commented on both nationalities but in reality prefers her French ancestry as that was the heritage that her father identified with. I ahve found that people generally identify more with their mother's nationality due to the family influence is usually stronger from teh mother's extended family. I think inclusion in the distant part of the list and perhaps some historic figures should solely be based on documental direct heritage. There is an article that appeared in the Irish Echo newspaper around 1991 where Liza talks about her determination and ability to laugh at herself to her Irish roots - but as I say these comments are very much "localised" and not widely available unless someone does extensive research. I have many articles, letters and other documents not available on the net that realate to many people's Irish connections and use them in my work but for the most part this material is hard to find unless the individuals have a lead or know where to look and it is rarely on the net. There is also the scientific reality that is Mitochondrial DNA that is passed from generation to generation unchanged from the female line - what this means is that an individual in America who had an Irish distant Great Grandmother would have the same mitochondrial DNA as that distant (female) relation, this has tremendous implications for health research and forensic identification. I am sorry to go on so much but as you can tell this is a subject that interests me very much. There is also something that we must take into consideration when talking about Irish American Culture that is fairly unique in how "loyal" individuals can be to it even if the connection goes back many generations and the current family name is not remotely Irish - this again is a fairly unique phenomenon more common among those with Irish roots than others. Research into this has stated that America, Canada and Australia all founded on waves of immigration offered a new life to these "tired and poor huddled masses yearning to be free" but in the case of the Irish leaving Ireland was not a choice but a necessity to survive and many regretted having to leave and many were angry over having to leave and I dare say many were glad to leave but ultimately this forced immigration did not sever the ties with home and generations of the same families continued to cross the ocean right up until recent times and this has kept the link open and to a degree fresh. Also the Famine Irish of the 1840s after only 2 generations in America became very influential and successful in the military, church, politics and show-business, combined with the world-wide popularity of St Patrick's Day celebrations particularly in America and the stereotypical images of the Irish that were for the most part flattering although some not so e.g. drinkers and fighters but overall this group of people managed to maintain a strong connection with their "motherland" whilst still remaining fiercely patriotic Americans. Ireland did not interfere with American identity that was to a degree formulated by Irish immigrants. Finally on entries like Arthur Shields, Barry Fitzgerald, Geraldine Fitzgerald and Maureen O'Sullivan it is highly likely that they became Naturalised American Citizens as did Maureen O'Hara for several reasons the least being that they made their living there, and that it was a very patriotic timein Hollywood and America and they were unable to go back to Ireland due to WWII - sorry to be so long winded and I am happy to asssit as I can.
COMMENTARY BESIDE ENTRIES I beleive that the commentary beside entries needs to be controlled for instance the large essay on "Lara Flynn-Boyle" is far too long and not warranted or appropriate - whilst she may be Irish American and included in this list her accomplishments are not worthy (in my opinion) of such a lengthy commentary - which I guess is the fundamental problem here - it is all down to one's opinion - but if the list is to be of any use or value the entries and comments must be regularised through some standard format. users can research their own interest through the initial represntation on the list. I do not beleive that any commentary other than very brief link to a more detailed site or a brief reference to Irishness such as maternal, paternal naming the specific connection. I also think the Distant section has been vandalised - it is the only part of the list that should be straight forward based on clear documentable Irish Ancestry and no other specification. I have not been able to turn up a sherd of evidence that Ella Fitzgerald ever mentioned teh word Irish let alone that she was "Irish" yet she remains and otehr sthat have clear discent are removed - why? 86.12.253.32
JackO - I agree my experience with "irish American" culture is that because of reasons stated previously many people with a remote irish connection do consider themselves Irish American simply because they know more about that connection than any others they may have, and that connection does not "threaten" their American identity - BUT I also agree that there should be standards for entries and those that cannot be substatiated/evidenced should be removed. I also agree that inclusion on the list would be more accurate for researchers (like myself) if it was required that evidence of individuals with Irish ancestry acknowledged their irish roots or their identification was linked in someway - It is up to the individual to do the wider research that ultimately will reveal exactly how "Irish" the subject was and more important how "Irish" they felt. I think I would be safe in saying that I doubt that Mohammad Ali felt very "Irish" or that his great contribution to Sport and Boxing in particualr had any impact on the Irish American community but this is where the difficulty lies in that evidence of "feelings" is not readily available for historic/older individuals - therefore you can easily find 2 paragraphs on the net about say Lara Flynn Boyle (please accept that I am not being critical) becasue she is current or modern - yet Legendary people such as Garland, O'Hara, Tyrone Power and some others who have clear identifiable Irish conections that are secondary to how they contributed to the development of Irish or "Oirus" American culture as it may be through there work and public image were removed. I know that you have put 2 of them back but the reality is that historic figures as they are in film and Americana in general should be secure as there are a handful of entries that will standout as models of Irish American culture (as it was) for many generations to come and both Garland and O'Hara are sterotypical of this image as the "quintessinal" colleens if you will. Entries such as Ali are important in other ways to researchers as they evidence how the immigrant Irish evolved in their new country. There is also interesting work currently being done to look at how Blacks with Irish ancestry were not accepted particularly during the last and erly part of this century which is why so little information about this exists in that if peopel such as Ali, or Ella Fitzgerald knew about their Irish connections they wouldn't have spoke much about them as it had no real impact on who they were becuse ultimately they would not have been raised in an "Irish" environment perhpas similar to how Robert DeNiro feels in that you identify with teh culture you are most exposed to. One project I was involved in was to document how the Irish flourished everywhere except in Ireland and this and other simialr lists have been invaluable to that research. 86.12.253.32 20:07, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes I think a list based on pure DOCUMENTABLE ancestry maybe a more efficient way of going about this BUT it runs the risk of idiots just adding and removing entries willy-nilly for their own agendas - people should not be on this list just because they are Irish American but rather because they have contributed significantly to something - Yes older celebrities or "legendary" celebrities as well as historic figures have lots of information available on the net but for the most part what is avaialable is related to their careers and contributions that rarely have an Irish slant. Their personal lives are not avaialble in detail except for those elements that are either tragic, scandalous or controversial - their opinions about themselves are found in old interviews and articles and formal written biographies that rarely are reproduced on the net. Goin back to Garland she has literally hundreds of sites dedicated to her and there is a lot about her family held in various ancestry and geneological specific sites but most sites are focused on either her addiction problems, her film career or why she appeals to gays rather than if she thought of herself as Irish or not. This is the same for many "historic" and older individuals - there are also problems with younger ones as well - Lara Flynn-Boyle and John Travolta being 2 exceptions because they seem to understand and appreciate their Irish Ancestry. I would be curious to find anything from the litany of Culkins listed or any of the other current silly celebrities that have contributed little or nothing to Irish American culture or any culture and to a degree feed the negative sterotypes. Vono 01:13, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
JackO - Yes this is what I have been trying to get across without actually berating anyone's "contributions" or suggesting that an entrant is "less famous" or worthy than another as this is all subjective and can encourage the tit-for-tat edits that I have seen in the past. Documentable evidence is the key and only way to go with this type of material and extent of Irishness and contributions to Irish culture if not clear by the entrant's "fame" can be linked and further sourced by the viewer if they so choose but thsi information is usually in teh main articles that can provide extensive links depending on teh poularity of teh entrant and this is very positive and useful although teh articles are also subject to individual agendas and people including their personal slant at teh expense of more relevant information - the Garland article is again a good example of this. At one point there ws a section detailing her Ancestry that has been deemed to be non-important by an editor who deleted it - yet others keep expanding other sections that are as irrelevnat but clearly within their interest. I personally beleive that ancestry is important inforamtion for any historic person as our personal history defines who we are and shapes to a degree our reactions and experiences. As you are probably aware most well know celebrities and historic people have geneological information easily and readily available through the numerous ancestry and history sites that can be viewed without subscription. Going back to individuals such as Ella Fitzgerald, Eddie Murphy, or any other entrant that has an Irish name the rule must be if there is no evidence to support entry other than the name (appears) to be Irish they should not be listed unless it is under a sub-category as un-documented. I also think that perhaps a sub-category called Legends with Irish Ancestry can be useful as it would group that handful of very famous people in their own sub-category similar to the others that would be useful to researchers as the main list of Actors for the most part are not individuals whose fame or contributions will stand the test of time as some of these legendary people have had careers spanning many decades (60 years in O'Hara's case) and are as famous dead (Garland) as they were alive and are of more common interest to researchers who use teh lsit to develop projects for a variety of sources. A few pictures would also be useful to make the site a bit more interesting. Regards and Happy Easter - it is the 90th Anniversay of the 1916 Easter Rebellion in Dublin and there is a large display of Irish Americans' contributions to that event with of course Mr DeVelera (New York born) leading that display. 86.12.253.32
Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) for current discussion of a potential policy to apply to all ethnicity lists on Wikipedia, including this one. JackO'Lantern 20:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
People whose Irish ancestry I couldn't confirm:
Some of the people are the list are so insane to question because of how they look, there name, and there religion. It would be like needing a source to confirm that LeBron James is African-American.
It's descriminatory, you don't need to a source to put people on the list of African-Americans. 75.3.4.54 18:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
That is a myth.
I think the Polish myth really started as a joke as a way of insulting him. 75.3.4.54 18:35, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I know for a fact that he is. 75.3.4.54 02:11, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
This is the worse section - mostly very little info on these people, so I think they were basically listed because of their name Actually, most of these people are Irish and it is very well known, you just never heard of them, and your ignorance is no reason to remove them.
first president of the Irish Fellowship Club of Chicago, see [11]
Mad Jack O'Lantern 03:26, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
JackO - I think that the change is an improvement, however I think that people with a Distant Irish Heritage take preference over "Fitional Characters" that should be the last category. But this is my own opinion therefore I did not change it. Wasn't it Mohammed Ali's Maternal grandFATHER who came from County Clare? I added a link to him and re-added Mary Jemison with a link - Vono 10:17, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
==Double Entries== I noticed that Bing Crosby is listed under both Music and Actors _ I think one lsiting is sufficient for each entry but udnerstand that people like crosby and garland were both notable actors and singers - 86.12.253.32 13:27, 18 April 2006 (UTC)