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Does anyone else think that this should be FP article today? If an admin would do so I think it is much more appropriate than the "gully".
While many of Lennon's songs, especially solo songs, were political in nature, it's essentially inaccurate to say that he led rock towards more serious and political messages. Even by 1965, the Beatles were still writing mostly love songs, with the only possible exception of "Nowhere Man"; they quickly moved on to more mature lyrical sentiments, even if they were romantic, but they weren't responsible for introducing serious, political messages to rock; you could perhaps ague that they helped push pop music into more mature lyrical territory, but the way it's phrased in the article isn't totally true; it can be reasonably argued that most of the political aspects of rock really came out of folk and folk-rock. Hence, I changed the sentence to reflect Lennon's overall importance as a popular composer.
Watching Channel 4 news today they made mention of John Lennon's association with "drug use and wife beating" - the drug use is obvious but I hadn't heard the wife-beating comments before, I came to the article hoping for some information but didn't find any. I know that Lennon was great but in the name of Wikipedia's balanced approach would a 'controversies' section be warranted to discuss such issues? (it's not like the man never caused contorversy with his political and religious statements). MagicBez 21:06, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
John Lennon was NOT assassinated he was murdered. Please look up a defination before changing it back. I know assassination sounds cooler and brings more meaning to his death but he was killed in cold blood by a nut case.
Definition of assassination: "To murder (a prominent person) by surprise attack." I THINK that applies to Lennon.
John Lennon was a "public figure," and I believe it was you that changed it from assassination to murder, you should not change it until a consensus is reached. Burroughsks88 05:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I shouldn't be arguing such as stupid thing, but I think this proves a point -- Jgritz 05:19, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
John Was a leader not a follower and made a huge difference in the lifes of many people Someone (203.121.0.16) has changed "Ono" to "Chong Wah" for reasons best known to them.
There's a contradiction in the first paragraph. He didn't change his middle name, he added another one. Why did he retain "Winston" (to become John Winston Ono Lennon) if he didn't like it? -- 193.128.29.190 14:33, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
It was my understanding that he legally dropped the Winston but that many media people insisted on referring to him as John Winston Ono Lennon. I heard this even from personal friends of John's who should know better. -- Bluejay Young 08:14, Jun 6, 2004 (UTC) Edit: I said Jimmy Fink of Westwood One used this name. He didn't.
Ronald Reagan was president-elect for five weeks before Lennon's death. Can anyone add Lennon's opinion on that? Since he began writing "Come Together" as a campaign song for Timothy Leary running against Reagan for governor, it'd be valuable to include his opinion of this seminal event of the 80s. Gebron 15:20, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
The article says "Reportedly, the song playing on the hospital tannoy at the moment of Lennon's death was a Beatles hit, "All My Loving"." Except from context, I would have no clue as to what "tannoy" meant. It's not in my dictionary, either. Presumably it means "music system": is it a British word? We ought to change it to something comprehensible: I'm certain no one at Roosevelt Hospital believes they have a "tannoy". -- Nunh-huh 17:36, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Tannoy is a very common British word, are you suggesting we should stick to words that are recognised in your locality? Is there any internationally agreed English vocabulary? pomegranate 19:52, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)
Yes, you should stick to words everyone can understand, instead of your limey backwoods sayings.
Yeah, we also have this stupid habit of spelling backwards properly and not like a total fucking retard. Maybe you should stop dragging yer knuckles and think about that one you stuck up Yank tosser. I think the American translation is intercom or maybe just hospital radio system would suffice, but then maybe English people would not understand that. Lennon was one of ours after all, so that could be tricky. This isn't a one way street, "backwoods" limeys use this site too, so maybe the power mad coward above who "forgot" to sign his post should keep that in his tiny little mind (no offence to the nice Americans)-- Crestville 14:54, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
"Backwoods" is not a misspelling of "backwards". "Backwoods" is slang for a place totally remote from civilization (i.e. in the back of the woods), with the implication that those who live in the backwoods are uncivilized and uneducated. -- anonymous Yank
I don't dislike Americans, nor do I wish to join in a race war (on John Lennon's talk page, of all places) but looking at the education standards and cultural backgrounds of our respective nations, is it not a touch ironic for an American to call an Englishman uneducated or uncivilised? America is somewhat notorious throughout Europe for having remote, uncivilised areas and for a reletively poor education system coupled with high levels of self-esteem. Not to nit-pick-- Crestville 16:28, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I apologise for not linking tannoy when I used it in the article. I am not British by any stretch of the imagination (I am an expat Canadian), but I use some British conventions and often British spelling by choice. I do think it's appropriate in view of Lennon's cultural heritage. Also it should possibly be interpretable by context. I have put tannoy back in and, this time, linked it. -- Bluejay Young 21:07, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)
My source for the report that "All My Loving" was playing as John died was a television reporter who was in the next cubicle in the ER with a broken leg from a motorcycle accident. He recognized Yoko running into the ER following someone on a stretcher who he assumed had to be John, and a short time later heard "All My Loving" start up, followed by a scream from Yoko as doctors told her John had died. He called in the report to New York's WCBS-2. This was covered in Rolling Stone and I believe in a subsequent issue of TV Guide. I wish I could think of the guy's name. All my Lennon scrapbooks are still packed in some damn box or other after a cross-country move. -- Bluejay Young 04:41, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)
Tannoy is a brand name like Hoover is to a vacuum Cleaner so the term Lound Speaker system or P.A. system should be used.
Sorry, the hospital was in America, it makes no sense to use a word that American's don't use to describe something that took place at an American hospital, all arguements as to who's country is better aside. Crestville this isn' the place for your opinions. -- 24.218.44.240 03:51, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
"Tannoy" is a brand of loudspeaker. In British usage it has evolved into a generic term for a public address system (usually outdoors), rather like "Xerox" has become a synonym for photocopy. The point is, why use a nonstandard term when a perfectly good standard term exists?
...is incorrect, as far as I know - if the text really means that John SAW his mother die, as I think it means. According to the Paul McCartney biography written by Barry Miles, John was waiting for her mother in her mother's house at the time.
Yeah, she's just left his Aunt Mimis house and I think Johnwas either at his aunts house or his mothers house. Either way, he definately didn't see it. His mate was there though.-- Crestville 22:31, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
John was staying with his mother and his mother's boyfriend when she was killed. She was coming home from visiting his Aunt Mimi.
I think it became a dark day in music history when Lennon died. The fact that Dimebag got killed on the same day makes it something more than dark, but I'm not sure what. Just saying the sentence makes me think the author felt the day wasn't dark until Dimebag's death. - Defunkt (talk) 02:26, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This paragraph was edited out today:
I think that it's well balanced, but considering how few people believe this, maybe we should just edit it out? What do you guys think? I'll vote to keep this para. Gaurav 09:10, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
According to May Pang... "John and I had heart to heart talks about many different subjects but let me make it clear that he loved women foremost. John loved to flirt with people whether they were women or men. HIs flirting with men has been mistaken for being homosexual or bi-sexual. He enjoyed the excitement of gossip by people and played up to it. Whether or not John had this so called "affair" with Brian, he would rather let you think that he had done so than correct the situation. John had many gay friends and was not uptight about it.
I've been in a situation when John thought that a guy was about to REALLY hit on him, he became very nervous and ran in the other direction.
I have had no doubts about John's sexuality and his preference for the female population."
source... http://www.beatlesagain.com/breflib/johngay.html
Lennon also denied the Epstein rumor in his Playboy interview.
I've removed the cleanup tag from this article. I've done some work to improve it, especially in the 1970s period. I've also seen and done work on the other three individual Beatles articles, and this one is in as good a shape as the others are ... or as most Wikipedia articles are ... so I don't think the cleanup tag is now necessary. --jls
I understand why this was done, but I'd like people to know that my source for the details I reported on the Lennon shooting came straight off of WABC reports for that night, which I have on tape. I said nothing which could not be found on one of those tapes or in the subsequent Rolling Stone special edition. So these are not unconfirmed speculations, and I figure they were just cleaned up because they made the article too long. -- Bluejay Young 04:41, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)
Should the discography be moved to a page of its own like it has been done for Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr? -- DaveGorman 12:01, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The ER doctor has made new statements to the media about the level of devastation to Lennons body. I think it is important to include in the article, because it shows the degree of damage caused by firearms. With stricter gun laws, this type of devastation could be prevented.
The material I pulled out of the Role in the Beatles section related to White Album, Let It Be, and Abbey Road was (poorly written) general Beatles history that is already covered in the Beatles article, the History of Beatles article, and possibly elsewhere. This section in this article only needs to cover specific aspects of this period that relate to Lennon, and the Get Back/Let It Be mess (for example) mostly didn't have anything to do with Lennon in particular, but rather with total group dysfunction. It was most definitely not "blanking", as one user suspected!
One of the problems with the Beatles articles in general is that the same facts are covered in multiple places, with the inevitable likelihood that articles contradict or are inconsistent with each other, embarrassing for any encyclopedia. So reducing duplication is always a good idea. I did something similar months ago with the Paul McCartney and Wings articles, moving material across and making sure that they didn't significantly overlap. -- jls 13 May 2005
...tried playing "How Do You Sleep" backwards? A message there is supposed to say "Hey, poor Lindy, so mean, gets him nowhere" Source: www.reversespeech.com, find the music reversals section to see it CoolKatt number 9999 06:40, 17 August 2005
As Ono went in, Lennon got out of the car, and saw Chapman waiting in the shadows. Recognizing him from many hours earlier, Lennon was instantly aware that something was not quite right. He gave Chapman a long, hard stare, but went on through the entrance to the Datoka.
... Okay, guys. Wow. Don't think we need this. -- Thorns Among Our Leaves 21:08, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Wow, don't know why, but the information previously buried in the "Trivia" section, claiming that Lennon may have supported the IRA, is very unbalanced. (I checked here after seeing another Wikipedia page claiming that Lennon had - full stop, had, not "was claimed to have" - given money to a Marxist IRA organization.) The previous entry was linked to the first BBC story with David Shayler's claim ... but did not mention any of the other pertinent details (aka, Shayler's in deep doo-doo for breaching the Official Secrets Act, and not necessarily trustworthy ... Lennon's biographer has been fighting for FBI files for over twenty years ... The "proof" may have been in MI5 files, after being passed from the FBI ... the same FBI which erroneously reported information on "enemies" in the past (eg Jean Seberg).
Now, Lennon might have supported the IRA after all, but what was written exercised quite a bit of "selective omission". 67.10.136.147 07:46, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Are the conspiracy theories really notable enough to warrant their inclusion here? Is there any serious scholarship that believes Lennon's murder was a political assassination, or is this another case of Area 51-style cranks not taking their meds?— chris.lawson ( talk) 06:37, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
Has anyone seen a documentary on the History Channel called Declassified: John Lennon. It explores the government conspiracy theories in depth. I think it would be prudent to include this information. Shawn 06:21, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Spam? It's difficuly to call a heart-felt attempt to remember the great man and his immortal message "spam". I'm sorry, but I believe the petition deserves a mention in the intro of the article not just for it's own sake, but as a testimony of the sheer vastness of John's popularity and political influence. You mention how he made the list of top Britons by BBC, yet you reserve a movement to name a holiday after him (perhaps one of the greatest honours) for the external links section. I fail to see your logic, please reconsider.
-- Wikiuser 7 18:56, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
An anon recently added a link to a fairly irrelevant "History of the 1980s" page, which contained one mention of Lennon: [1]. I briefly considered adding it to the article directly in place of the original link, but it seems as though our external links section here is pretty thorough. If someone thinks this article is relevant, I certainly won't object to its addition, but I didn't see the point myself.-- chris. lawson 11:31, 24 October 2005
Given the 5 Wiki pillars, the first paragraph on Lennon here: "heavily influenced rock music" is ludicrously inadequate in summing up his and his fellow Beatles' revolutionary development of popular music. I make this obvious point to illustrate a criticism I have of Wikipedia: the almost unfailing blandness of many of the entries.
The problem of verification of subjective standpoints is obviously one that can lead to a lot of wayward writing, but it seems to me that this has led, most unfortunately, to a dismal timidity and conservatism in the critical (critical as in evaluative sense)approach of the writers. If young people seeking to understand the impact made by leading artist of - in this case - the 20th century, then they sadly won't receive much of an education here. Whilst W. is hugely important as a provider of facts, and I don't undervalue this, but that's all it is. And in the case of Lennon, you can make the most enormous claims imaginable for his importance as a songwriter, singer and cultural leader in the 1960s, and have 100s of music scholars across the globe agreeing with you (the same is true for Dylan and countless other artists in W.)
So this is a plea for a bolder approach from the senior bods at Wikipedia; boldness is encouraged in one of the pillars, SO LET'S HAVE SOME.
Thoss 00:25, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
The article states "Some sources, such as Lennon In America: 1971-1980 claim that, during this period, he had a body weight of at most 135 lbs (61 kg), which is alarmingly thin for his 5'11 (1.80 m) height".
But according to the CDC's BMI classification (www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/bmi/calc-bmi.htm), 61 kg at 1.8 m is not even underweight, let alone "alarmingly" so. Is there any medical justification for the "alarming" characterization?
And he wasn't even 5'11, he was 5'9.
It is stated that John Lennon didn't appear on The Simpsons. However, I distincly remember years ago reading somewhere that Matt Groening had put him secretly into some episode, and that he was actually in the show, but did not reveal which episode. Can someone look into this?
I think images & impressions of lennon have appeard in the simpsons frequently, but I'm guessing this refferet to the actual person voicing themselves. The creators of the simpsons are quite proud that McCartney, Harrison and Starr have all actually voiced themselves on the show. Lennon, however, was unable to do so due to previous comittments (i.e. haveing died some 10 years before the series started). In that sense, he is the only beatle to never have apeeared on the simpsons.-- Crestville 13:21, 9 December 2005 (UTC) http://www.snpp.com/guides/beatles.refs.html - there you go.
I strongly suggest splitting the accounts of this 'controversy' away from the biographical section into a completely new article. It is a very minot episode which is given undue prominence in the context of Lennon's life and work with the Beatles, disturbs the account and has no clear ending, and is equally relevant to discussion of the Beatles. 80.44.175.87 20:40, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
While there is no known connection between the murders of Lennon and Dimebag Darrell other than the date, it is absolutely worth mentioning in the trivia section, because both murders will be recounted and remembered by the media from now on. Somebody playing thought police keeps editing this trivia item out; it's at least as useful as half of the other trivia items. Earpol 00:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
The trivia section in this article is pretty awful. Everyman and his dog has put how their next door neighbour saw John eat a Kebab whilst singing Stairway to Heaven in 1977. Maybe this could be moved elsewhere - in my opinion it is not very encyclopedic to have a trivia section. Jgritz 03:58, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
A large chunk of the murder section seems to be copied from this NYTimes article - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/08/nyregion/08lennon.html - and probably needs a rewrite before it is discovered. Jgritz 06:28, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
"In the late afternoon of 8 December 1980, in New York City, fan Mark David Chapman..."
Sorry, but Chapman wasn't a fan of Lennon's when he shot him. I can see why this causes confusion though, as he was around Beatlemania and in his college days, but he went off him around the time of his conversion to Christianity. He killed Lennon because he saw him as a phoney.
-- Bumpusmills1 18:12, 19 December 2005 (UTC) Remember the term "fan" is short for fanatic.
so change it to "Fanatic"
Chapman was a former fan, and claimed to believe he was John Lennon and that the real Lennon was an imposter.
Books by Albert Goldman and Geoffrey Guiliano? Anyone who knows anything about Beatles history would not include these authors in recommended Beatle reading lists.
-- Bumpusmills1 05:47, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree with Zachary and others that these conspiracy theories are sick. My question is why should they be allowed on other pages (but not here)? Perhaps we can come up with one single policy? gidonb 11:08, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Conspiracy theorist Barry Chamish has said that Imagine was a song about the New World Order and that Lennon was assassinated in a conspiracy of Yoko Ono. [2]
Q: "You're very aware of everything around you."
GEORGE: "Yeah."
JOHN: (giggling) "I think you've got to be, you know. You might get shot." (laughter)
ADELAIDE, June 12, 1964 Adelaide Press Conference
Strange.. FranksValli 12:09, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
A reader has contacted the help desk saying that the quote from Howard Cosell is actually wrong and that Cosell actually stated that Lennon had been "shot twice in the back". Could someone please check the quote?
Capitalistroadster 07:51, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
User Lapinmies found the quote in wav which stated he was shot twice. Article changed accordingly. Capitalistroadster 05:39, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone heard about this psychic that supposedly channels John Lennon from the Afterlife? Ekiatoui 02:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
He changed his name to John Ono Lennon by deed poll. There is an external reference to this at the bottom of the main article. A search for "John Ono Lennon" in Google gets 12,000 hits; "John Winston Ono Lennon" gets 973. Some people insist the latter is correct - Crestville changed the main article saying "he wasn't allowed to drop Winston" - but who can say you're not allowed to - you can call yourself anything you want. Diverman 03:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
John Lennon was murdered. Lion King 00:40, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
On the 23rd Aug. 1974 at 9 o'clock I saw a U.F.O. - J.L.
That little blurb is written as a note in John Lennon's Walls and Bridges album. Lennon went further to describe his sighting in the November, 1974 issue of Andy Warhol's Interview, VOL. IV NO. 11.
Q. Now that you've been living in N.Y. 3 years, do you still....
A. If you look closely at the wonderful "Walls And Bridges", out now, album package, you will notice a little notice saying, "I saw a U.F.O...." why don't you ask me about that?
Q. Oh, I hadn't noticed, did you really... were you drunk? high? having a primal?
A. No. Actually I was very straight. I was lying naked on my bed, when I had this urge...
Q. Don't we all...?
A. So I went to the window, just dreaming around in my usual poetic frame of mind, to cut a long short story, there, as I turned my head, hovering over the next building, no more than a hundred feet away was this thing... with ordinary electric light bulbs flashing on and off round the bottom, one non blinking red light on top.... what the Nixon is that! I says to myself (for no one else was there)... is it a helicopter? No! It makes no noise... ah then, it must be a balloon! (Frantically trying to rationalize it, in all my too human way) but no!! Balloons don't look like that, nor do they fly so low, yes folks, it was flying (very slow, about 30 m.p.h.) below.... I repeat, below most roof tops (i.e. higher than the 'old building' lower than the 'new'.) all the time it was there, I never took my eyes off it, but I did scream to a friend who was in another room "Come and look at this" etc. etc. My friend came running and bore witness with me. Nobody else was around. We tried to take pictures (shit on my polaroid, it was bust) with a straight camera. We gave the film to Bob Gruen to develop, he brought back blank film.... said it looked like it had been thru the radar at customs.... well, it stayed around for a bit, then sailed off.......
Q. Did you check to see.......
A. Yeh, yeh, the next day Bob (is it in focus) Gruen rang the Daily News, Times, police to see if any one else reported any thing. Two other people and or groups of/ said they too saw something..... anyway I know what I saw.......
Q. Aren't you afraid people won't believe you.... crazy Lennon/ Maharishi/ etc.
A. That's just one of the many burdens I will have to bear in this day of waterbabies, inflation, generation crap, highly influential, but not untidy....
May Pang who was the friend John Lennon was referring to, relates the story of this sighting in her book "Loving John". Lennon writes "There's UFOs over New York, and I ain't too surprised" in the song "Nobody Told Me". Strange days indeed. 68.160.241.152 22:27, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I support Tysto's edit of the shooting details and the moving of all the specifics out of John's page over to the murderer's page. SteveHopson 18:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)