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A fact from Jenin refugee camp appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 March 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that of thirty-five Palestinians killed in the
West Bank in January 2023 by Israeli forces and settlers, twenty were from the Jenin refugee camp?
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
Bruxton (
talk) 19:52, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
... that the first refugees at the Jenin refugee camp lived at former
barracks evacuated by the British Army? Source: “Early refugees lived at evacuated British Army barracks, then at the abandoned Ottoman train station, then in UNRWA tents,” said Abd al-Jaleel al-Noursi, who arrived at the Jenin camp in the early 1950s after fleeing Haifa. -
[1]
ALT1: ... that out of thirty-five Palestinians killed in the
West Bank in January 2023 by Israeli forces and settlers, twenty were from the Jenin refugee camp? Source: "Palestinian Ministry of Health said that Israeli forces and settlers have killed 35 Palestinians ... during January, 2023, in the occupied West Bank ... It added that 20 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces came from Jenin. -
[2]
QPQ: - not needed Overall: No qpq is needed. Article is just over five times expanded. I like ALT1 best. I read through and the article appears neutral as well. Good work!
Lightburst (
talk) 16:05, 19 February 2023 (UTC)reply
The Bestagon I see some continued editing so will have to watch that the article remains
stable. Also I will change ALT1 from "twenty were in" to "twenty were from" because that is what the source says. "
It added that 20 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces came from Jenin." It does not demostrably change the context or meaning so we will not need another reviewer to approve.
Bruxton (
talk) 19:50, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Why isn't this article at "Jenin refugee camp"?
As the DYK ALTs above make plain, the way one most naturally refers to the "Jenin Camp" is as the "Jenin refugee camp" - it's there in the first sentence, it's there on
Ngrams and it's there on
scholar, with hits
plummeting away if you enforce "Jenin Camp" as a set term, but holding steadier at
three times the number of hits if you lock in the term "Jenin refugee camp". The
WP:COMMONNAME argument appear strong. Is there something that I'm missing here, or is the page just massively overdue a bold move to the more prevalent name?
Iskandar323 (
talk) 08:30, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
I agree. Somehow I haven't thought about this before; this should be moved. The ⬡ BestagonT/C 08:37, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Probably because
UNWRA call it Jenin camp. None of the camps in their list at the bottom are called refugee camps by them and WP mostly seems to be following that, see
Palestinian refugee camps. Still, if it is common in sources, then that trumps official names of course.
Selfstudier (
talk) 11:07, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
I suspect that the UNWRA might have made a slightly stylistic/editorial choice to avoid iteratively repeating the word 'refugee' again and again, such as in the list of camps at the bottom that linked page, but the website also hops a bit between the two, with the link just below the main text reading: "Read more about Jenin refugee camp", and for any of the other "Camp" profiles, the "Read more about" text similarly reads "X refugee camp", so it seems very much of an avoidance of repetition issue on that site/with that organization.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 11:41, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
I think the overreliance on UNRWA here has also led to too many descriptive names for camps being rendered as proper names. Even within the usage of the simplified term "Jenin camp", the uncapitalized 'camp' version is more prevalent than "Jenin Camp" all caps by a
significant margin in Ngrams, and this in reflected in scholar too,
where few sources capitalize 'camp'.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 11:47, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
TBH, for most of them, there might not be that many sources. Jenin is obviously one of the larger, more discussed and more prominent examples historically, hence the focus on its in academic literature. On the other hand, most of the other pages linked to at
Palestinian refugee camps are underdeveloped stubs. Even so, it is already a complete mishmash of capitalized and uncapitalized 'camp's, so if your concern is inconsistency, that's already the par for the course here.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 12:17, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
But in theory, yes, maybe. Here's Dheisheh, plucked at random,
on Ngrams.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 12:20, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Or
Far'a, which has been in the news recently.
Selfstudier (
talk) 12:22, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
Then again, where the place name is not an existing settlement, as with Jenin, perhaps the name itself is sufficient, per
WP:CONCISE, such as with
Dheisheh, where there is not much else that name can mean.
Iskandar323 (
talk) 12:23, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
I wasn't trying to be awkward, I don't have any objection to the move (or any of them) as such.
Selfstudier (
talk) 12:25, 20 February 2023 (UTC)reply
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved; doesn't seem controversial enough for an RM discussion. (
non-admin closure) The ⬡ BestagonT/C 12:13, 21 February 2023 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
For no reason
Hey you better check sources before telling something as propaganda... 13:41, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
True, however, you do realize that neither of you are allowed to edit this article because neither of you meet the requirements to do so. If you want to edit the page then you can make a request right here on this talk page.
Selfstudier (
talk) 14:14, 14 August 2023 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline.
2b.
reliable sources are
cited inline. All content that
could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.