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There is no ethnic group such as Iraqi; Iraqi is a nationality. Ellipi ( talk) 22:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
To the users "Ellipi" and "Babakexorramdin": you are Kurdish and Iranian. What is your problem with this article? The Iraqi people deserve a page just as much as the Kurds have their seperate page from Iranians even though they are both similar people! Being Iraqi is not just a nationality and does not mean they are just "Arab"; genetics proves this! Besides being Arab is not an ethnicity, even though we are still proud of being Arabs. Are you both this racist and shallow that you have to go vandalising this page. Leave Iraq for Iraqis only, stop putting your nose where it does not belong and worship your own country or in Ellipi's case, territory.
"Like many of its Semitic and non-Semitic neighbours, the Iraqi people developed a series of great civilizations ranging from the ancient Sumerians (culturally stimulated from Iranian highlands) and..." Did you still not stop vandalising the article? Where is your source that the ancient Sumerians were "culturally stimulated from Iranian highlands". This is starting to become downright silly and highly annoying!
Babak you are NOT Iraqi, why dont you go and waste your precious time on persian articles, why Iranians always jump into Iraq-related articles and start to vandalise and have an urge to put the word "persian" into it, maybe it is because EVERYTHING in your so called persian empire is of MESOPOTAMIAN orgin!! more specific SEMITIC ASSYRIAN culture and architecture, the sign that you wear around your neck and are proud of is derived from KING ASHURBANIPAL symbol which is nothing but an IRAQI with other words Mesopotamian!!
Besides Babak Feilis are NOT persians, they are shia kurds, and one more thing to add to your facts and so everyone sees here, in iran itself 24% of its populations are carriers of the Arabid Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA), just like SEMITIC/Arabian people including Arabs, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Siryanis, Hebrews etc. so you better stop vandalising because you yourself might be a carrier of ARABID gene :)
Is this article about the Iraqi people or Iraqi Arab? I see two different rival types of editing here 1- those who correctly view these artcile as an article of Iraqi nation with all its ethnic and religious groups. 2- Those who puch this towards a Pan Arab definition and exclude non Arabs. And moreover consider this country as one of the many Sunni Arab countries, and by this even neglect the cultural characteristics of the Shiite Iraqis, who speak Arabic. Moreover the numbers in infobox refer to all ethnic and religious groups of the Iraqi nation. For example those in Iran are mostly Shiite Arabs, Kurds and Felis. I will put a tag on it until these points are adressed.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 09:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
The article is about Iraqi Arabs. It originally said Iraqi Arabs are different than other Arabs. It was balanced to: Iraqi Arabs too are Arabs. But then you came and changed the article to reflect a baathist point of view: to forge an Iraqi identity. Something strongly rejected by all citizes of Iraq except for the Sunni Arab minority. Basically such articles that are about citizens of a country are merged into demographics of that country. Ellipi ( talk) 10:14, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
yes thats a good idea. In the case of Afghanistan, however, there is yet another problem. That country has an ethnic name. Afghan meant originally only Pashtun, so Afghanistan is in fact Pashtunistan. Afghanistani is used as a name for the citizens of Afghanistan. Yet many , notably Englis-speaking. editors oppose Afghanistani asa legitimate word.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 15:18, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
The fact that all users discussing this are not Iraqi but of other ethnic groups is very suspicious and no "Babakexorramdin" Sunni, Shia and Christian Iraqis are not very different. I should know as my parents and many of their friends should be very "different" according to you - yet they are not. This is not a Pan-Arab article as you claim it but an article celebrating the Iraqi people who for thousands of years had a history very different than that of e.g. the people of Qatar. However during one of the many Persian invasions of Iraq and the following Sassanid rule of Iraq, the (also semitic) people of Arabia freed Iraqis from foreign Persian rule and introduced Islam and Arabic which was followed by the great Abbasid Caliphate. Thus Iraqis are not only proud of their ancient history but also of their medieval Arabic history. In fact, being an Arab is the same as being European. It is not an ethnic group but a bunch of ethnic groups such as Iraqis, Lebanese, Syrians, Gulf Arabs etc. who are Semites, but also Egyptians, Berbers etc. who have been unified by a recent similar culture and language: Arabic (unlike the Europeans who still all speak different languages of different linguistic groups: Germanic, Romance (which derive from Latin) etc.) Or do you suggest that everyone from Morocco to Iraq and Oman are the same people? No! However we speak the same language through the coming of Islam. This is also the reason why many Christian Iraqis still speak Neo-Aramaic: they had no need of adopting Arabic as Arabic is not the language of the Holy Bible.
Iraqis are not Arabs they are speakers of Arabic. Irish people speak English but that doesn't make them English. Iraqis became Arabized. The fact that they previously spoke semitic languages like Akkadian and Aramaic facilitated the transition to Arabic with the arrival of Islam and Arab hegemony. This would be like Germany conquering Sweden and Swedish people adopting the German language. Also, linguistics doesn't correlate well with genetic constitution, there have been over 1000 incontiguous years of Iranian hegemony in Iraq and 400 years of Ottoman. Genetic analysis in Turkey shows that the indigenous Anatolians were Turkicized. Greater Syria ( talk) 22:09, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Recent edits to this article and the Babil Governorate article concerning the DNA analysis of bones of ancient Babylonians and living people in the area was not support by the citation to National Geographic that was provided provided. A search of National Geographic and other sources such as Science News, Science and Nature did not turn up any such report. I have deleted those paragraphs as unsupported. Please do not reinstate them until and unless an accurate supporting citation to a reliable published source is provided. In general the problem with attempted DNA analysis of ancient human bones is contamination. See, for example, (May 29, 2003) "Anthropologists cast doubt on human DNA evidence" Nature 423(6939): p.468. -- Bejnar ( talk) 02:11, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
A lot of notable ancient and contemporary Iraqis are listed in the orange box, but there are no pictures to go along with the names. It would strengthen the article if someone fixed this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.64.216 ( talk) 07:20, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
In the article, it mentions an Arabic tribe called "Banu Delphi", who are apparantly decended from Ancient Greeks. I have never heard of any such tribe in Iraq, not had any research online brought up any results. Can someone please enlighten me more me of this bizarre and completely unsupported claim. I find it quite fascinating in being completely unique compared the the usual commonly accepted theories concerning the origin of the Iraqis or Arabs. Take care. Pink Princess ( talk) 17:56, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
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I am just amazed that these so called Assyrians, who are in fact Suriyanees(Arameans) from Turkey, the nestorians of Turkey that comnverted many neighbouring nations into the new sect, and used Arameans as their language. DNA material proves that they are a mix of Greeks, Syrians, Kurds, Persians and Armenians. Language is not anymore determinantal for designating a ethnic group.
Still they have filled the whole internet with filth and wrong information. Even the ancient Assyrians were not a race, merely a designation of a family name or a religious God Ashur. Assyria was populated largely by the Subartus who were governed by a family that imposed the Semitic Assyrian language and religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diyako2000 ( talk • contribs) 10:47, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Well there are also numerous sources that back up what I wrote, there is nobody to stop these nonsense that is paid and subsidized by some pathatic wanna be Assyrians in America. I do not believe in sources and research funded by so called Assyrians. Man you are worse than Turks, that is just a prove that you come from nowhere and try to create something imaginary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diyako2000 ( talk • contribs) 17:53, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
Please refrain from personal attacks, this is not a personal conflict between you and me. your claim that those Assyriologists are paid and subsidised by Assyrians is unheard of, please do read WP:CONSPIRACY to get a clear idea of Wikipedia's policy about that. If you don't agree with the sentence you tagged bring some RELIABLE sources otherwise I will remove it.-- Rafy talk 21:42, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
This is absolutely not personal, how possible when I dont even know you !!! I will not only provide sources but organize a debate about this issue, people and especially assyriologists are afraid of harassment and attack by you so called Assyrians. I have talked to many Arab and European Assyrioligists and told me this fact, and they are not finding it even necessary or worthy discussing it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diyako2000 ( talk • contribs) 08:10, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
What a joke, Assyrians paying Assyriologists to back them up? are you going to claim we payed them to fabricate the sources and evidence they have found while researching Assyrian continuity? Please show us your sources and this seems like a personal attack on the Assyrian identity, you're hate won't be tolerated here Aturaya ( talk) 16:44, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
The population census in Iraq in 1957, the Turkish POSITION (Turkmen) rate of 8.94% was determined. mevcuttur.Günümüz distant sources and the archives of Iraq is a fact that according to the population to be around 2.5 to 3 million, Kirkuk, Mosul, Tel afer, Erbil, Selahhadin live in cities.
İraqi Turkmen in Iraq in the 2010 parliamentary elections and the newly established 10 attorney earned the government undertook the task of three ministries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.98.169.200 ( talk) 20:16, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
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I am reducing down the pictures and names of Iraqis in the infobox to essential ones. If users object to the ones that I have removed, please post your disagreement here and we can discuss which ones warrant attention in the infobox.-- R-41 ( talk) 19:38, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
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On the top-right side of the article there are small pictures of people who are or were part of the Iraqi people and some others. The problem with it is that there was no Iraqi people before mdoern age, for example in ancient Mesopotamia there was no Iraqi people, but rather there were the Assyrians, Kassites and Hurrians, for instance. Moreover, if you asked an ancient Mesopotamian to what people does he/she belong he/she would not answer "to the Iraqi one". BTW, calling a resident of Mesopotamia before the modern age an Iraqi is equivalent to calling Hannibal a Tunisian or calling the last Dacian king, Decebalus, a romanian.
I ask you why people who lived before the existence of the Iraqi people in the article are presented as part of that people. ??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.127.219.77 ( talk) 23:20, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
You are right about the fact that there are peoples who have used different names for their homeland in different ages, but you didn't relate to the fact that there were in ancient Mesopotamia more than one people, and that the article relates to them as one. For instance, the article relates to Akkadians, Sumerians, Babylonians, leaders of Lagash, leaders of Uruk and Ali (who was an Arab; not a Mesopotamian!) as Iraqi/Mesopotamian. Moreover, this article sees Abraham (whom I don't think has ever existed) as an Iraqi, although he's considered as the founder of the Jewish people. What's your responese?
And what about the leader of Lagash and the leader of Uruk? Moreover, Saladin, who is considered by the article as part of Iraqi people, is also considered by the writers of this article Kurdish people as part of the Kurdish people. In addition, I'd like you to tell me how do we know that during the high middle ages and end of the middle ages the people of Mesopotamia were a people, rather than a group of people who belong to a greater people? What is the article's evidence to support this claim? I would like to add that there are other people who are considered Iraqi by this article and simultaneously considered as Assyrian or Kurdish by the article about them.
"Babylonian Jews, whose separate synagogues in major cities, whose custom of completing the reading of the Torah in one year as opposed to the three-year Palestinian cycle, whose spiritual attachments to the Babylonian yeshivot, and whose self-characterization as Irāqiyyūn set them apart from their Palestinian neighbours."
— Ormsby, Eric Linn (1989). Moses Maimonides and His Time. CUA Press. p. 24.
I disagree with equaling Mesopotamian peoples with present-day Iraqi people. It is right that ancient Mesopotamians lived (roughly) in the area of present-day Iraq, and ancient Mesopotamians most probably belong to the ancestors of present-day Iraqis. But it is unacademic and enencyclopedic to treat ancient Mesopotamians as Iraqis. Just like Gauls used to live in the area of present-day France and belong to the ancestors of modern French, but are not identic with French. Romans used to live in Italy and belong to the ancestors of modern Italians, but are not identic with Italians. Teutons used to live on the territory of today's Germany and belong to the ancestors of present-day Germans, but they are not identic.
It is greatly astonishing for me to find Gilgamesh, Abraham, and Nebuchadnezzar listed as Iraqis. This is of course blatant original research. I highly doubt that you can find a reliable source describing any of them as Iraqi. I propose that this article focuses on the people that is actually described as Iraqi people in reliable sources. And I require to remove all persons from the infobox that are not Iraqis proper, but Sumerians, Babylonians, Akkadians etc., especially I take it for granted that (probably) mythological figures like Abraham, Gilgamesh and Ninsun, cannot stand as representatives of a really existing modern people. -- RJFF ( talk) 16:55, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
This article is the most finest example of antiquity frenzy on Wikipedia which I've seen in years. It's written by User:Adel Tigris, an Iraqi. First of all, what is purpose of this article? Adel tries to present Iraqis as specific "ethnic group" which is nonsense by all means, not even one scholar claims that. Iraqis imply for citizens of Iraq, country which exist from 1932. There was NO any country called "Iraq" before, and there also wasn't any kind of Iraqi national identity. It's historical fact, which Adel tries to avoid so he consider ancient " Uruk" as only etymological predecessor and "proof" that Iraq existed before 5000 years. Truth is that Uruk-Iraq connection is highly disputable and considered as obsolete by many scholars ( Middle Persian ʿErāq is most favored etymology), and there was no any trace of using Iraq (or derivations) in political context for more then 4000 years (from 22th century BC to 1932 AD). For earlier historical periods, we have History of Iraq and similar articles, but Adel and Ashrf1979 have included all famous historical persons from Mesopotamia as "Iraqis" in infobox - including Sumerian and Babylonian kings, even Abraham ( see history). -- 109.60.16.173 ( talk) 04:51, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Iraq's northern minorities; the Kurds, Assyrians, Turkmen, each have their own articles and ought not to have been included in this article, which is supposed to represent the ethnic majority Iraqis who speak Iraqi Arabic as their first language. However it should be appreciated that owing to bonds of culture and kinship between the ethnic majority Iraqis and northern minorities; they were included as part of the Iraqi people. This is a problem insofar as it makes the article appear to define Iraqis as citizens - obscuring the ethnic identity and character of the ethnic-majority Iraqis, who are not simply 'citizens' or 'Arabs', but are 'Iraqis' as a people, with a vernacular they call 'Iraqi', a land they've called 'Iraq' since early Christian times, and a culture and identity which is 'Iraqi'.
The Arab people 'panethnic' article does not represent the ethnic majority Iraqis; who have their own unique dialect, culture, history, ancestry, and identity. Arab identity is a component of it, but only a component. Iraq's northern minorities only became 'Iraqi' when the state of Iraq was formed, but Iraq's ethnic majority have always been 'Iraqi'; their vernacular is called Iraqi, their land has been called 'Iraq' since at least the time of Shapur I (3rd century) who used the name. Naming the article 'Iraqi Arabs' is redundant too; Iraqis speak of themselves as "Iraqi people", not "Iraqi Arabs". A hatnote can serve to disambiguate if needed. What I have carefully and conscienciously avoided on this article is any marginalization of Iraq's minorities, but in doing so, the Iraqi majority have been marginalized. Adel ( talk) 14:48, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
In actuality, what is now Iraq was called Assuristan/ Athura until 637 AD, NOT Iraq. Likewise, the majority people were Assyrians untill that time, and the dominant language was East Aramaic/ Syriac. To suggest otherwise is Arabism at its most dishonest.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Three questions:
1. Should this article focus on Iraqi people in the modern sense or should it also cover ancient Mesopotamian peoples who lived on the territory of present-day Iraq in earlier times?
2. (a) Should the infobox only include Iraqis in the modern sense or also ancient Mesopotamians?
Since the decision has been made to include only Iraqi nationals of the current state (existing from 1920s), we should now change the article description accordingly. For example the lead should say "Iraqi people are Iraqi nationals" and not "natives of Iraq". It should also cover only peoples who have or had Iraqi nationality and not their descendants (like Jews who had Iraqi nationality revoked in 1950s, who are now counting maybe 20 thousands remained at most, but have more than half a million descendants without Iraqi nationality). Greyshark09 ( talk) 14:33, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
So user "Saimdusan" (who if I may emphasise is not Iraqi nor Semitic and not an Arab) you deleted the "Related Ethnic Group" box. I hope this makes you happy. It seems rather sad that you have to continuously vandalize the article on Iraqi people. WHY don't you three users: 1) Babakexorramdin 2) Ellipi 3) Saimdusan just let this article alone! Stop the vandalism already! None of you is Iraqi and I assume none of you has even been to Iraq! I do not understand why you constantly, over and over and over again have to vandalise this article and try to divide the Iraqi people by saying they are either "not the same due to different religions" or "Arabised Iranians" or that IF Iraqis are just Iraqis their entire culture was "stimulated by the Iranian highland". Please if you are unhappy with yourself do not let your frustration out on this article. In times of such great suffering I think it is a reasonable plea that you at least leave the Iraqi people one thing of which they can be proud of: themselves.
An NO this article should not be merged into the "Demographics of Iraq" article! Germany also has many Turks or Serbs. However they are not found under the "German People" article but under the "Demographics of Germany" article. However Germany is named after the majority group: The Germans. The same should and does hold true for Iraq.
I understand the frustration of the above user. I actually DON'T even understand WHY these three users constantly vandalise this article! I think this is an article for the people of ܥܝܪܐܩ/العراق.
Arabic is the majority language, Kurdish is spoken by approximately 20%, South Azeri (called "Turkmen" locally) [1] is spoken by 5% - 10% of people, [2] [3] the Ethnic Turcomans, Assyrian Neo-Aramaic is spoken by 3% - 5% of people, mainly Ethnic Assyrian Christians. Mandaic (and other Neo-Aramaic varieties), Shabaki, Armenian, Roma, and Persian are spoken by small numbers of between 25,000 and 100,000 each. There may be a few Chechen, Georgian, and speakers of other Caucasian languages also. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.98.169.200 ( talk) 20:10, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
References
What about Saddam Hussein ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.244.8.207 ( talk) 20:55, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
There seems to be a MASSIVE Arabist bias in this article. It starts off simply talking about Arabs. No mention is given to the still extant Pre-Arab peoples of Iraq at all. An impression is also given that Iraqis were majority Arabs as far back as 200 AD, which is clearly a nonsense given that the Syriac language was prevailant across the region. This article should give due weight to ALL of the ethnic groups of Iraq, and if we are to mention when Arabs first arrived, then we MUST also give due mention to when the Assyrians and Iranic peoples such as Kurds arrived. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EddieDrood ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
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