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Can't we classify the periods under the usual heads of Ancient, Medieval and Modern?
Yes, that would be wonderful-- Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut, which held its ground 07:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please put nice pictures of Chalukya and Rashtrakuta architecture. I see only Chola empire relatred pictures proliferated.
Dinesh Kannambadi
Please, somebody read the first sentence and rewrite it so that it makes sense. I would but I have absolutely no idea what that's supposed to mean. Foxmulder 02:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
How come many of the images were recently removed?
Hmm, the new intro is a bit crappy isnt it?
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Could you guys (and girls?) pretty pretty please learn proper english? Or ask a native speaker to check your grammar? -- 84.159.137.29 00:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
This edit (which was never reverted) looks like some kind of POV-pushing, but I don't know enough of the context to tell what the point is, or if there is any point. up◦land 21:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
While cleaning up links to disambiguation pages, I created a stub article for "Epic Age," described on the disambiguation page as an era in Indian history. It is referenced from the Punjab region page as such, but I don't find it mentioned on this page, so it must be there under another name. Could someone with more knowledge in this era take a look at Epic Age and make it "right?" Thanks. John 22:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
-Shouldnt there be separate sections, devoted to both the Achaemenid empire and the invasion of Alexander the Great? These were key events in ancient northern India's history, the former, as one of its first foreign military invasions and the second as the beginning of contact between both India and the West. After all, India was described by Herodotus as the Persian Empire's wealthiest province. The Jewel of the Persian crown, one could cleverly put it. At least, I think they should. -[[ Afghan Historian 18:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)]]
need discussion on this, if necessary...
Pizzadeliveryboy 13:36, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
I am unsure why it is worth showing a map of alexander's empire in an Indian history page, or why much more relevant pictures have been removed. This is afterall about Indian history, and going by the style of other articles, should not devote presious picture space to an empire that only interacted with India for a short time, and conquered outer fringes of north India, when that space could be more relevently devoted to something Indian. Vastu
Pizza, I changed Bali to Indonesia for the following reason - it is irrelevent that Bali was the first kingdom in the Malay area, since there has been a number of Indianised empires there, not least of which, the Srivijaya and Majapahit - in addition to this, we are talking about cultural influence on modern areas of the planet, dispite the deliberate use of the name 'Persia' instead of Iran, which is like the difference between 'Hindustan' and India - this gives the unmistakable impression that the only place Indian culture had any major effect on Indonesia is the modern island of Bali. Ill leave the rest to you, I cannot see why you would want to refer to the Bali kingdom instead of the modern nation of Indonesia. Also I cannot understand why you then didnt, under this logic, painstakingly describe the ancient kingdoms of South East Asia, instead of the modern political entities of Burma, Cambodia, etc, which include areas not limited to the extend of the Khmer Empire, etc... Vastu 11:55, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi:
It is necessary to mention the existence of the Indo-Aryan migration as an accepted theory of how Vedic civilization began. I know this is a very volatile and sentimental (and hence controversial) topic, but there exists enough linguistic proof of the fact that there has been a migration from C Asia and the Cacausus, lying just to the west, into Iran and eventually into India. Which culture eventually dominated whom may be a topic of debate, but the fact that this phenomenon occured is indisputable.
Pizzadeliveryboy 17:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
-Some mention of the Duranni empire and its incursions into India and Pakistan must be made in the Post-Mughal section. They were one of the key invaders vying for control after the death of Aurangzeb. They quarelled with the Marathas, Sikhs etc. They even occupied Indian controlled Jammu-Kashmir for a while - User: Afghan Historian
This period is perhaps one of the most important in asian or world history in terms of the literature, philosophy, religion and art that it produced - perhaps an attempt should be made to make sub-titles for some of the more powerfull kingdoms and republics, such as kuru, etc, to emphise this. Vastu 22:59, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
A new stub - Template:India-history-stub may be used for suitable articles Pizzadeliveryboy 18:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
I was pretty disappointed with the intro to this major and highly important article. User 59.92.48.53 added a large poorly-written chunk to the intro section that I deleted. I also tried to make the intro flow a little better from the Indus Valley Civilization to the Vedic Civilization and tried to make it more NPOV. I've done what I can in a short period of time, but I believe some more work may be needed. I encourage others to help clean up the intro more.-- Osprey39 02:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
This article uses the notation BCE. Originally it used BC, then someone put a few instances of BCE in, then someone thought let's standardise on BCE. This is against the Wikipedia guidelines which state that the preferences demonstrated in the first substantial edit should be adhered to. This is not the case here. The notation has been changed for whatever reason, political correctness or otherwise. I intend to revert this to BC, to comply with Wikipedia guidelines. Please note, this article is about a country, not about a religion. Arcturus 18:18, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
The dating system can be changed if editors active at an article so choose. As this has arisen, we could take it as an opportunity to make the choice (rather than go with the accident of the first editor's preference). I support a change to BCE/CE, as the standard academic (and increasingly in moe popular non-fiction books) system in modern publications. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 22:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I endorse the reversion to BC from BCE per Arcturus and Mel Etitis. — Ambuj Saxena ( talk) 19:21, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
For that we have Poverty in India. You can add a ==History== section to it. — Ambuj Saxena ( talk) 05:39, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
The article above suggests that the majority of the scholary community no longer favour Indo-Aryan hypothesis, whether invasion or migration.
Should it therefore deserve to be treated as fact in the article anymore?
Vastu 06:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
This article is leaden with unreferenced statements. It just carries a list of "Further Reading" in the end and does not indicate which sources convey which fact. I am putting a unreferenced tag and will try to tag the unreferenced statements too. This is an important article and though it has a lot of content, it isn't encyclopedic. Shushruth 03:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Looks like its been taken from the Amar Chitra Katha comic. Wouldnt it be appropriate to replace it with a pic of Ch.Maurya in battle fatigues or on the throne or something like that instead of an illustration where he is being taken prisoner(guess this is how the story starts in the comic.... aah.. nostalgia). Just a thought. Sarvagnya
“ | Most scholars today believe in some form of the Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis, which proposes that the Aryans, a semi-nomadic people, possibly from Central Asia or northern Iran, migrated into the north-west regions of the Indian subcontinent between 2000 and 1500 BCE, although recent genetic evidence says the opposite occurred. | ” |
If there's recent genetic evidence, then full citation should be readily available from reputable scientific journals. CiteCop 02:10, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
http://www.umassd.edu/indic/press/origin_pr.cfm
I think Subhash Chandra Bose's name being mentioned and Mahatma's name being left out is not right. He was the leader of the movement and if somebody's name has to be mentioned,his has to be there.
Do they? Several scholars have basically said that 'all IVC research prior to five years ago was flawed', and yet a source from 1989 (?!) is being quoted in favour of the AMT? Again, refer to a link above in which most scholars attending a Texas meet on the matter apparently no longer favour the Aryan migration. Vastu 10:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
A disappointing article given the importance of the subject. Too much POV, not enough straight facts.
It really seems that indians have a hard time excepting Pakistan for what it is or excepting the fact that Pakistan has it's own distinct history and culture.FOr Pakistanis who are loyal to our country this is a really annoying for us and has only created feelings of enimity towards indians.Which is not what anyone wants. http://www.geocities.com/pak_history/hijack.html
Historical sites from the indus civilization can be found in Pakistan such as mohinjidaro and not in india.
Please dont repeat the phrase "Pakistan didnt exist back then".Ive heard that too many times.This phrase is fit for india as well.Indians think their country existed back then,but fail to find the background of the countire's three main names(Bharat,India,hindustan)
This popular indian myth that Pakistan was once "a part" of india is a also a parallel to the popular Greek myth that Macedonia was and still is "a part" of Greece when in fact Macedonia has its own distinct culture,while Greeks continue to steal its history.Indians have been very successful in spreading this false myth to the rest of the world.If india was a country then why all these distinct cultures in one country?
Italy did not exist during the days of the ROman empire,but it doesnt mean Roman history is distinct from Italian history.Roman history is part of Italian heritage.
If indians dont have a history of their own,thats their problem it doesnt give them any right to go around claiming Pakistan's ancient hsitory as their own. If you'd like to learn more about ancient Pakistan visit http://www.geocities.com/pak_history/index.html
Thankyou. Nadirali 16:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)Nadirali
If you're going to judge a history of a country from the time of it's full independance,then you may as well say Pakistan is older than india as Pakistan became indpendant on Augest 14th 1947,wheras India became independant on Augest 15th 1947. Nadirali 17:00, 28 November 2006 (UTC)Nadirali
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I completely agree with this. Indians are claiming the History of Ancient Pakistan, when in fact they have very little do with Pakistan. While Pakistan might not have existed, the Pakistani people always have, and they have always lived in what is now called Pakistan. Ancient Pakistani history belongs to the people of Pakistan. If Pakistan changed its name to Batman country tomorrow, its history should be called Ancient Batman history since the people are still the same.
I propose two ideas.
1. All references of History of the Pakistani people is removed from Indias history page 2. Or the article is renamed to Ancient Indo-Pak History, and it should be made clear where in this huge subcontiment the history belongs. India and Pakistan were both born in 1947. Before that, the whole subcontinent was known as British India. India was never one country. There was no One ruler for this subcontinent so its WRONG to group the entire subcontinent history as one. And the fact that Modern India took the name of what was the name of the subcontinent means nothing. If Germany decides to call itself Europe tomorrow, it doesnt get to claim the history of Ancient Europe.
Please think about it. If you want an article for the history of the entire subcontinent, you will be referring to 1.6 billion people, and no 1.6 billion people cant claim Indus Valley belongs to them. To narrow it down, IVC belongs to Pakistanis, or Pakistani Punjabis and Pakistani Sindhis if you want to be specific.
Comment was added by Unre4L
Because nobody understands the ancient harappan texts, there is no way to read the texts as of yet. The cultural history is obviously extinct, but their direct descendants are the people of Pakistan. Through time, they have been mixed with Arabs, Persians, Huns, Moguls, Afghans etc. The Indians purposely use India to describe everything in the subcontinent. The use of the term Ancient India is no longer correct as India is now a modern country. This has to be renamed or the misunderstandings as well as Indian abuse of the term will keep going on. Comment was added by Unre4L
"India" should not be an alternative name for Pre-British South asia.That would be like giving "china" the alternative name for olden day east asia. Nadirali 16:28, 29 November 2006 Pakistan evolved into what it is today from the indus,just as Iraq evolved into what it is today from Babylon,not from Iran(UTC)Nadirali
Please. China, Korea, Japan, south east asia all have independent histories. It would have been okay to name the south asian subcontinent India IF Modern India hadnt claimed the name. Modern India has nothing to do with the River Indus apart from the name they have stolen. Keep the name, but let Pakistan keep its history. I dont see why you guys are so keen on claiming the history of Pakistan, when 98% of your population has nothing to do with Pakistan. I am being serious on this one. We need to correct this article, and I would really like some unbiased person to do this.
Truly, All that history that involves the Pakistani people, regardless of what they were called back then, still belongs to the people of Pakistan, hence it should known as ancient Pakistan. Comment was added by Unre4L
First it's claiming that Pakistan was somehow "part" of India.Now the new excuse is that the two countries exchanged populations.What's the next excuse?
The subtle subversion in Pakistan: Should give an adequate explanation to Nadirali's delusional historical denials and revisionist tirades. Hkelkar 09:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
http://www.geocities.com/pak_history/India.html A paradise indeed Nadirali 23:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)Nadirali http://indianterrorism.bravepages.com/
India:
Pakistan:
Here's your "honer killings"(hope it includes your treatment of "second class citizens" or "the un-touchables" in the world's poorest "democracy"): http://atheism.about.com/b/a/057179.htm http://www.onlinewomeninpolitics.org/archives/04_0112_in_wrights.htm Nadirali 00:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)Nadirali
What about the "Mujahirs", eh? The most victimized by riots and pogroms in Pakistan? How about the Ahmadiyyas? Assaulted, women raped, massive sectarian riots in Lahore against them, simply for being "heretics"? Full scale hatemongering against minorities in Pakistani schools and madrassas (over 2/3rd of Pakistani madrassas are run by Deobandi fundamentalist Muslims, teaching hate ahead of math).
lol at Nadirali.... Sindhis come from Pakistan?.... I'm a Sindhi too thru my maternal lineage... My folks didnt come from Pakistan, they came from Sindh! Pakistan IMHO is an artifical construct cobbled together from parts of India and Afghanistan. Its not Wikipedia's problem if you (Pakistani nationalists) are so confused about your identity... अमेय आर्यन DaBrood © 22:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Some more perspective:
Abuse of History in Pakistan: Bangladesh to Kargil: by Yvette C. Rosser
Pakistani nationalism is characterized by ironies and contractions. Its ideology and national mythos have not been substantiated by its historical realities. In the last fifty-two years the vision or ideal of Pakistan, as a secure homeland where the Muslims in the subcontinent could find justice and live in peace, has not been realized by the citizens. There is a shared experience of disappointment and dissatisfaction among the populace that has not abated since the restoration of democracy in 1988, and in fact the feelings of betrayal and a collective mental depression have increased dramatically in the last decade. This intellectual fatalism and depression about the state of affairs is not something new, as can be seen in an excerpt from the book, "Breaking the Curfew, A Political Journey Through Pakistan" published by a British journalist, Emma Duncan, where she wrote, and I quote,"[. . . .] many Pakistanis I talked to seemed disappointed. It was not just the disappointment that they were not as rich as they should be or that their children were finding it difficult to get jobs; it was a wider sense of betrayal, of having been cheated on a grant scale. The Army blamed the politicians, the politicians the Army; the businessmen blamed the civil servants, the civil servants the politicians; everybody blamed the landlords and the foreigners, and the left and the religious fundamentalists blamed everybody except the masses.The shared feelings of betrayal and disappointment have increased exponentially.Pakistan brutally suppressed all intellectual freedom during the reign of the Islamist zealot "Zia-ul-Haq".Once "democracy" (ahem!) was restored, the level of corruption certainly did not decrease, the practice of fomenting regionalism which was practiced by General Zia increased, promises of a better future rapidly died as the political parties fought a propaganda war for their ascendancy instead working for the good of the country. The often disenfranchised polity was once again dismayed and depressed by the inability of their officials to focus on the needs and priorities of Pakistan.Now that there are no military governments to "fight", they have none but themselves to blame for the plight of their country.Pakistan's delusions of "Unity through the Islamic Ummah", or whatever was quickly dispelled with the Bangladesh Liberation War. Even today the central government operates under the assumption that Pakistan is a unitary entity. The Pakistani military and bureaucracy are still grappling with the problems that the contradictions inherent in the Ideology of Pakistan continue to create within the varied cultural landscape of the nation. In order to facilitate this type of propaganda, they advocate massive campaign of historical revisionism. Denial and erasure are the primary tools of historiography as it is officially practiced in Pakistan. There is no room in the official historical narrative for questions or alternative points of view which is Nazariya Pakistan, the Ideology of Pakistan—devoted to a mono-perspectival religious orientation. There is no other correct way to view the historical record. It is, after all, since the time of General Zia-ul Haq, a capital crime to talk against the "Ideology of Pakistan." In contemporary Pakistani textbooks the historical narrative is based on the Two Nation Theory. The story of the nation begins with the advent of Islam when Mohammed-bin-Qazm arrived in Sindh followed by Mahmud of Ghazni storming through the Khyber Pass, 16 times, bringing the Light of Islam to the infidels who converted en mass to escape the evil domination of the cruel Brahmins. Reviewing a selection of textbooks published since 1972 in Pakistan will verify the assumption that there is little or no discussion of the ancient cultures that have flowered in the land that is now Pakistan, such as Taxila and Mohenjo-Daro. In most textbooks, any mention of Hinduism is inevitably accompanied by derogatory critiques, and none of the greatness of Indic civilization is considered—not even the success of Chandragupta Maurya, who defeated, or at least frightened the invading army of Alexander the Great at the banks of the Beas River where it flows through the land that is now called Pakistan. These events are deemed meaningless since they are not about Muslim heroes. There is an elision in time between the moment Islam first arrived in Sindh and Muhammad Ali Jinnah.
Rather succinct description of Nadirali's views I should think. Hkelkar 02:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I can recycle all that trash posted,but considering the lifetime it would take,I think I'll pass on and do something more worthwhile than argue with a bunch of...... Nadirali 06:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)Nadirali
You guys did.I just made the points and the arguments came along with you guys.Points made,arguements dead. Nadirali 15:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)Nadirali
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Nice to see you guys want to compare Pak with India. This still doesnt make any difference to the fact that IVC belongs to the Pakistani people, hence Ancient Pakistani History. Nobody cares if some Pakistanis moved out before partition. You are way in the minority and you cant claim or make anyone cry for you. There are a lot of Hindus in Pakistan and they proudly call themselves Pakistani. If you dislike Pakistanis so much, then stop scavenging their history.
So you think Pakistan has problems. I am sure half of the Indian population would love to be able to vote, and starve every night aswell as not having access to clean water. Democracy must also work for all the baby girls you guys kill every now and then. Not to mention how you surpress most of you population because they are untouchables Indian Democracy ZindaBad.
GOOD ONE!! Nadirali 23:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)Nadirali
Ethnically you are a Pakistani. But its up to you whether you want to be called a Pakistani or Indian. A more political correct term would be Indian Pakistani. The reason why Pakistani history is being hijacked is because of people in your situation. But I am sorry to say that you account for less than 0.2% of Indian population, therefore, the 99.8% of Indian people cannot claim Pakistani history. But to summarise you are a Pakistani living in India. If you want to be called Indian, you are throwing your Pakistani identity away yourself. Unre4L
I parcially agree with user:Unre4L.If your grand parents did infact come from Peshawer as you claim,then yes technically you are at least part Pakistani by descent.But if you're not comfertable being called a Pakistani,that's perfectly understandable,as you were not born and raised in Pakistan,and the country may be an alien society for you. I feel sorry for those who were forced to leave Pakistan to escape religious discrimination or lack of job oppertunity.I believe they should be given the right to return by the government if they can prove their Pakistani ancestry. I must say the term "particition" is very misleading,indicating that South Asia was a "nation" before 1947.It should be specified as "partition of Punjab and Bengal".I hope that answers your question. Nadirali 15:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)Nadirali
Really? Nearly all of my maternal-Sindhi side of family was murdered during Partition. My granddad was kicked out of Karachi with nothing more than a suitcase by his "Pakistani brothers", so much for Sindhi Muslims whining about Punjabis now.
Pakistan I repeat is an artifical contruct. Nation states come and go. Pakistani history beings from 14th August 1947, to claim otherwise is nothing short of historical revisionism.
I must say the term "particition" is very misleading,indicating that South Asia was a "nation" before 1947.It should be specified as "partition of Punjab and Bengal".I hope that answers your
It doesnt matter what you think. Wikipedia is based on verifiable sources, no cerdible book or a scholar calls it as such.
अमेय आर्यन DaBrood © 21:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
would be consider me to be a Pakistani? Yes Gizza, you are infact all of us are cosidered Pakis by some just as you'd call me a bloody pom ! अमेय आर्यन DaBrood © 21:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
http://www.pakhub.info/art002.php
Mistaken Definition of Ancient India
We have all seen the term Ancient India before. On first thought you would think it applies to the Ancient History of India. Well, you are wrong. This term applies to the Ancient History of South Asia.
For decades, Indian historians have written the history books according to their own liking. And because of Pakistanis being ashamed of their non-Islamic past, their jobs had been made so much easier. To understand what has happened in the region, you have to be open minded. Everything written here is backed up with facts, logic and common sense. The logic applied to this argument makes sense.
Before India became an English colony sometime in 1800's or perhaps earlier, there was no such thing as India that we see today. The subcontinent was very much divided into many parts ruled by various dynasties. After independence in 1947, many of the states in the subcontinent were united into two single countries. The Republic of India and Pakistan. The Republic of India was not supposed to claim the name 'India'. This was a political agreement broken in 1947 which has lead to a lot of confusion in modern times. India, just like Pakistan was born in 1947. Prior to this, the region which is now India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, was known as British India. When the region was partitioned, Republic of India claimed the title of 'parent state' of British India, as they received the larger land mass for their country. Along with this title they also claimed the History of the region which was British India in ancient times.
This region was only ever united when Britain invaded. Prior to that, the region was scattered with dynasties. Logically, it doesn't make sense that India can claim the history of people and land which never belonged to them. The old argument of 'Pakistan not existing prior to 1947, therefore there is no such thing as Ancient Pakistan' is flawed. The same logic can be applied to India. There was no such thing as a country, India prior to 1947, and prior to the 1800s; the South Asian subcontinent was never united in anyway. So the current definition of Ancient India is flawed. Ancient Indian history is the history of Republic of India in Ancient times. This doesn't include any region outside of their own borders.
Therefore, grouping the history of the entire South Asian subcontinent, which has never been united prior to the 1800s and passing it on to a country which came into existence in 1947, doesn't make sense. Indian Historians have ignored these arguments and pretended that India has existed for 1000s of years.
Let's talk about Indus Valley for example. The region in question is now located in Pakistan. The people of the region have always been living there. However the history of the region is claimed by India, who is in absolutely no way related to the Pakistani people, neither have they ever had claim over the land which is now Pakistan. Indus Valley settlements are located all over Southern Asia. These include, Iran, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, northwest India, and of course Pakistan. However, the Main IVC cities, aswell as the majority are in Pakistan. The main ones being, Harappa and Mohenjodaro. The Indus Valley history should be called Ancient Pakistani. Any history which took place in what is now Pakistani should be known as Ancient Pakistani history. This includes the Kushun empire aswell.
The Pakistani identity is being stolen because Historians hide the fact that South Asia has never been united prior to 1800s.
It is incorrect to even label IVC as Ancient South Asian history. South Asia is home to 1.6 billion people, which is way too broad to describe the people of Indus valley, which is now Pakistan. Sure this is no harm in mentioning the settlements outside of Pakistan (India, Iran, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Kashmir), however one has to remember that Pakistan is the home of it.
LOL. Most of your evidence is based on what your fellow countrymen make up. You dont want to read it because it will shatter everything you believe in. I am really angered by your wreckless reply. You are basically saying you have no obligation to listen to anyone, and you will make up Indian history as you feel fit. Thx for confirming what I really thought you guys were doing. User:Unre4L
On all the pages that I have read so far, the Mughals are referred to as being outsiders, like the British. For example, on one page the terms "Mughal Era" and "British Era" are used.
The British never called India, home—--for them home was always England. Also, many Britishers came here because they were failures or penurious in England, many more came for the adventure. After coming here, they more often than not, looted the country, and generally looked down on the "natives".
The Mughals, on the other hand, lived in and called their home, the India of those days. It is true that the first Mughal came as a conqueror, but on discovering the charm and beauty of this land, stayed on. They did not serve for a year or two just to loot the country and then leave. In fact, many of our treasures today trace their origin to the Mughals. Art, architecture, and the performing arts—--all benefited by their contribution. Many Greek and Chinese historians have recorded these facts. To deny their dynasty and their empire is to deny a part of Indian history.
Dr. Uma 07:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)Dr. Uma Sheth
Hindustan is a place of little charm. There is no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness. The arts and crafts have no harmony or symmetry. There are no good horses, meat, grapes, melons or other fruit. There is no ice, cold water, good food or bread in the markets. There are no baths and no madrasas. There are no candles, torches or candlesticks
This illustrates the medeival Persian ethnocentrism of the Mughals quite adequately. Hkelkar 09:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC) Dab, Kelkar puts it correctly. No matter what Comrades from JNU tell the world, most Indians see Mughals as essentially a foreign imperial power. अमेय आर्यन DaBrood © 22:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)