This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hip hop, a collaborative effort to build a useful resource for and improve the coverage of
hip hop on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.Hip hopWikipedia:WikiProject Hip hopTemplate:WikiProject Hip hopHip hop articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article was created or improved during this WikiProject's
50,000 Challenge, which started on November 1, 2016, and is ongoing.
You can help!
I heard on teh radio...
Someone else was singing it...like in a more
Alternative Rock sort of way. Who is this artist and where are they mentioned in the article?--
76.174.34.216 (
talk) 13:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)reply
It definitely sounds like they interpolated the synthesizer riff that starts at 02:30 into the song. However, they didn't credit The Alan Parsons Project and they haven't been sued for it yet, so officially it won't go down as an interpolation or a sample.
Aoa8212 (
talk) 19:40, 20 February 2010 (UTC)reply
The only report of the song having a sample is this article:
Despite the suspiciously similar organ sound, this hasn't been mentioned in the article yet.
Yoshiman6464 (
talk) 21:31, 11 July 2016 (UTC)reply
External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Heartless (Kanye West song). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
this tool.
I have just modified one external link on
Heartless (Kanye West song). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
this tool.
I have just modified one external link on
Heartless (Kanye West song). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
this tool.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Picking this up. This is a longer article, and a full review may take some time. My quick impression is positive. (🎵 In the night I hear them talk, the coldest story ever told... 🎵)
Vaticidalprophet 05:43, 3 July 2021 (UTC)reply
First comments in the first couple of sections:
"NSFW" seems included in the fact the photos he posted were nude (see
WP:PLEONASM) and is somewhat distracting slang.
I think The song is the only one on the album that contains rapping from West, while rap features are contributed to "Amazing" and "See You in My Nightmares" by Lil Wayne and Young Jeezy, respectively would sound better switched from passive to active voice; I'm not one of the passive-voice-purgers, but it's a bit unexpected here, if that makes sense.
Done if this looks better? --
K. Peake 08:03, 12 July 2021 (UTC)reply
For seeking out a minimalist direction sonically, West directed his team to bring unique drum machines to Avex Recording Studio -- "for"? (And what was unique about the drum machines?)
Removed the word for, but the uniqueness of the drum machines is explained by the following sentence about them being reprogrammed. --
K. Peake 08:03, 12 July 2021 (UTC)reply
"
Upbeatpop" at the beginning of "Composition and lyrics" is
WP:SEAOFBLUE; it reads a little too much like it would go to a subgenre called "upbeat pop".
Done I removed the wikilink on upbeat --
K. Peake 08:03, 12 July 2021 (UTC)reply
Vaticidalprophet I have responded to your initial comments... didn't know because I had not checked Wiki too much due to work. --
K. Peake 08:03, 12 July 2021 (UTC)reply
As noted above, the reviewer will not be returning—discussion has been archived and is now
here—and two-and-a-half-month attempt to get a new reviewer by changing the status to 2nd opinion has not gotten any results. Accordingly, I have returned the nomination to the pool of those awaiting a reviewer without any loss of seniority. I hope it will be picked up reasonably quickly. The next review will take place on a different page from this one. Pinging nominator
K. Peake, so they know what is happening.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 05:34, 3 October 2021 (UTC)reply
@
BlueMoonset: I fully understand this since after the review has been on second opinion status for so long, even I have started to get fed up. Thank you for dropping the review efficiently, though I would like to ask when this does get taken on, will it not be listed as having failed on the previous GAN by the reviewer due to the original one quitting? --
K. Peake 08:20, 3 October 2021 (UTC)reply
K. Peake, since this review was not completed, there is no failure involved, and none listed on the article's talk page. It is effectively starting over, as if this review never happened.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 15:18, 3 October 2021 (UTC)reply
BlueMoonset Now the article has passed as a GA, I have not included this review in the history since there was no result; do you believe I am correct to do so then? --
K. Peake 07:15, 7 October 2021 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the
Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed
Infobox and lead
"It was passed on to West from the recording of Jay-Z's eleventh studio album, The Blueprint 3 (2009)" I'm lost. Passed on from what?
Done if this is specific enough? --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
"They often placed emphasis on his subject matter, while some critics praised the song's composition." → "Some praised its composition, while others emphasized its subject matter."
Done with changes, especially since the subject matter emphasis is a part of "his performance" they focused on. --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
"At the 2010 BMI Pop Awards, it stood among the Award Winning Songs." Looking in the body it looks like it won more awards than this. Couldn't we generalize it?
I'm not sure what I should use for generalization since various types of awards were won; I solely listed this because I believe it is the most notable due to this song being pop, but if you have any suggestions for generalizing then tell me. --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Background and recording
The first point I made above is somewhat made clearer here but it should be made much clearer in the lead. You don't wanna confuse the reader only three sentences in.
Shouldn't release info be kept for the actual release section?
Not done the release parts here are only brief mentions when it is relevant, such as the single release date before West shared an alternate version which is not appropriate in the release section due to being only on his blog. --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Going along with the previous comment, recording info is mentioned after release info, definitely doesn't flow that well chronologically
Not done the section is titled background and recording so the background info should be first, plus recording stuff does not tie in with those parts and would disrupt the flow. --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Composition and lyrics
Audio sample looks good
Rest looks solid
Amazing on both parts!! --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Release and reception
Honestly solid. No complaints here
Music video
"Before the technique of rotoscoped animation was used for the video, Williams shot the footage of West." Rearrange this so it reads the footage was shot then rotoscoped over
"after real people were recorded" wouldn't this be 'filmed'?
"On November 7, 2008, the music video was released." → "The music video was released on November 7, 2008."
You should mention the 2009 awards/noms before the Rolling Stone bit for flow' sake
Done for all --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Commercial performance
Looks good
Live performances
I find it kind of ironic that he felt proud to perform in front of Obama, who not even a few months later called him a jackass after he did
that one thing :P
Haha I still remember that interview, even though I like both West and Obama! --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
"medley of the song and "Pinocchio Story"" → "medley of "Heartless" and "Pinocchio Story""
All these seem to pass
WP:SONGCOVER so it looks good
Credits and personnel
Looks good
Charts/Certifications/Release history
Looks good
The Fray version
Would the links in the infobox constitute
WP:OVERLINK?
The guideline does mention that "if helpful for readers, a link may be repeated in infoboxes" and since this is so far down the article, I believe there is no violation. --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Audio sample looks good
"airplay at radio" → "airplay on radio"
Done with a change --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
You should move the chart stuff into the release para
Not done reception refers to both the critical and commercial types --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Kris Allen version
Same question about the links here
I still don't think so per earlier, also if a user goes to this page specifically to read about the Allen version then the links are sort of helpful remaining here. --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Can we add a photo of Allen?
Not appropriate, as more than enough space is taken up by the infobox and sample. --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Audio sample again looks good
References
Make sure they all use first/last and not author (noticed a few)
Well-written article. Should be a GA in no time. This is actually one of his songs that got me into him back in 2012. Kept this on loop my entire HS sophomore year. I remember hearing the Fray's version first so I was surprised to learn West wrote it. – zmbro(
talk) 14:50, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Zmbro Thanks for your dedication of time and kind comments, I have now implemented the necessary changes! --
K. Peake 19:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Kyle Peake Sick, happy to ✓Pass. Ping me when you nominate 808s for good topic and I'll happily support. – zmbro(
talk) 19:38, 6 October 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Zmbro: Just added the nom now, also I'd recommend using article history for the talk pages of GAs like
I edited in. --
K. Peake 07:16, 7 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Improved to Good Article status by
Kyle Peake (
talk). Self-nominated at 06:33, 7 October 2021 (UTC).reply
I began reviewing, and will finish later. --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 15:55, 8 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Interesting song told with love to detail (even what he wore at a certain event ...), on fine sources, no copyvio obvious. I don't known why you don't simply say: "It is set in
common time, and
A minor". The hook idea - mentioning the Obama seems good, but I see no reason to picture the well-known president again, - better the singer, no? My take:
Let's leave some curiosity for what was altered. Is the ball well-known, or could we just say "a youth ball"? --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 17:19, 8 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Gerda Arendt I do agree that it was too much detail initially being specific about how the lyrics were altered and the ball is not the same for every inauguration, therefore I proposed ALT3 with both of these edited if that looks fine to you? In the actual article prose, I haven't simplified things to what you mentioned since it should be made clear that A minor is the key and the picture of Obama can be kept because it's from the performance's year of 2009 and the presidency most certainly
aged him over his eight years. --
K. Peake 16:48, 11 October 2021 (UTC)reply
Thank you! - Most readers I know would know what common time and A minor mean, and those who don't and click will get to know that common time is a time signature, and A minor a key, so I believe it's a bit over-explaining. In
a Beethoven symphony, you'd just say "in
A major". Just for consideration. - For about the same reason, how about:
I approve the ALT3s, but suggest - to the prep builder - not to take the image. We have many more images suggested than we can take, and such a familiar one isn't really DYK material, imho. Next time, please word a later ALT here below the nomination, or the concersation makes little sense. Thank you for the music! --
Gerda Arendt (
talk) 17:08, 11 October 2021 (UTC)reply