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I deleted reference to Impeachment under Executive Imunity and deleted quotation marks. The citation link no longer works and the quotation impllies bias as it notes impeachment but not other causes for the governors term to end such as resignation or poor health and implied that there was currently an expectation that the governor would be impeached. ( Daveswiki 14:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC))
I removed "When Jim Bunning was re-elected to the Senate in 2004, questions were raised about his age and mental fitness. There are suspicions that if Bunning were to retire in the middle of his term, Fletcher, who has appointment power in that situation, would nominate himself to replace Bunning."
Suspicions of what he might do in a possible future situation and speculations as to the fitness of another individual for public office - especially without any external source for either - are not appropriate in a biographical article. Holford 23:11, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
6/2/05 - So, who is the Republican who keeps coming on here and deleting references to Fletcher's poll numbers dropping and the investigation into circumvention of the state merit system? Fletcher has gotten about as much press over the merit system scandal as for anything else in his entire life, yet you want to delete it from the article? Agenda, anyone?
6/10/05 - Facts are facts; why do you keep deleting them? Why do you believe that his earlier 50+% approval rating should be in the article but not his lower, later rating? Why do you believe the merit system investigation, which has dominated news coverage in Kentucky for weeks, moreso than any other event of the Fletcher administration, should not even be mentioned? How on earth can you claim that mentioning those two things = NPOV? That's ridiculous. Quit trying to keep the article fawning and praising and put in facts that are positive and negative about him.
6/14/05 - nice to see that positive and negative things have been left in the article - especially now that three significant members of the governor's administration have been indicted over the incident that you were cutting out of the article.
06/21/06 Returned the word Partisan to the KSC. The KSC is made up of 2 Contributors to Fletcher's campaign, and two members that were appointed to the KSC to SPECIFICALLY HEAR his case on the Merit controversy after four others Recused themselves. The two appointees were ALSO campaign contributors. (an unsigned comment from 161.6.41.146 ( talk · contribs))
Comrade Fletcher suggested Creationism is the correct "answer" regarding the existance of life on Earth. http://news.kypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060114/NEWS02/601140336/1014 Surely this is significant and ought be mentioned in the article. Desertphile January 14, 2006, 2:18PM Local Mean Time
Why is there even any discussion of intelligent design on what should be a biographical page? Seems to me like people are intent on injecting politics into what should be a purely informative and unbiased website.
This discussion is now well over two years old. Nothing more has come of Fletcher's declaration, and despite the fact that public education is a state issue, I'm not aware of Fletcher's view having any impact at all on public education in Kentucky. Unless someone can show that this is meaningful in some way beyond the fact that he is the only governor we know of to support teaching ID, I don't think it belongs in the article. Just in case, and as a show of good faith, I'm moving the text intact and with references to the talk page for potential further discussion.
Copied text follows:
In 2005 members of the Kentucky Academy of Science voted unanimously to oppose any attempt by legislative bodies to mandate specific content of science courses, and specifically to attempts to equate scientific creationism or intelligent design as scientific theories equal, or superior to, evolution. [1] In response, in a February 13, 2006, letter to the Kentucky Academy of Science, Fletcher, an outspoken intelligent design advocate, [2] [3] argues that evolution conflicts with the Declaration of Independence.
References
I'm going to switch the ref system. It may take me a few hours to complete. Please bear with me. -- FloNight talk 21:58, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
On 6/12/06 I excised the following text:
"On February 24, an ethics complaint regarding the appointments was filed, requesting the Judicial Conduct Commission to recuse the two appointed judges on the grounds that their prior political contributions to Fletcher and association with him and his staff were violations of the Kentucky Code of Judicial Conduct. [1] [2]"
That ethics complaint was rejected, almost summarily.
Plus, the citation is to a notoriously partisan and anti-Fletcher blog, the credibility of which is often seriously suspect. Throughout Fletcher's term the operator of that blog has constantly attacked Fletcher, often getting the facts wrong. The operator of that blog also is a serial filer of ethics complaints which are routinely rejected - including the one for which the blog is cited as a source!
1 BluegrassReport.org is NOT notoriously partisan, and 2 you might just want to put that back now that the NYT has written a FRONT PAGE ARTICLE about it.-- Owenaprhys 23:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and other wingnut fruitcakes get coverage in the mainstream press from time to time too. So did the Swift Boat Vets. That doesn't mean they aren't extremely partisan, or that they are at all credible.
BluegrassReport IS notoriously partisan. Just take a look at the front page on ANY DAY of ANY WEEK. It will be covered with slams on Ernie Fletcher and other Republicans, always tossing in bolded adjectives like "corrupt" to describe them. Democrats are not treated similarly, ever. It is run by the person who was the losing campaign manager for Fletcher's Democratic opponent for governor. There is not a person in the state who does not recognize BluegrassReport as being notoriously partisan.
Right. Tell that to Lunsford and the KDP. Just out of curiousity, do you LIVE in Ky? I do.I'll admit, there isn't a person in the state who still supports Fletcher that does not call BGR partisan (all 50 people) -- Owenaprhys 01:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for displaying your true colors and agenda, Owenaprhys. I'm sure with those comments, people will trust your assertions as to who is or isn't partisan.
Anyone who wants to should check the blog out for themselves - if anyone even cares about it. The front page is always covered with partisan screeds and attacks on Fletcher. Give it a look and decide for yourselves whether it is credible, or a partisan attack vehicle.
BTW, your ad hominem attack has no relevance to any of this, but yet, I live in Kentucky, and probably have for longer than you. Not that it matters.
That is doubtful. And no, it was not an ad hominem attack, it was a simple question based on the fact that you are clueless about Kentucky and Kentucky politics.
BTW have you seen the latest attack posting against Kentucky DEMOCRATIC PARTY Chairman Lundergan.-- Owenaprhys 23:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
BTW, how come you don't sign?? Sorta makes it seem like you are hiding something.-- Owenaprhys 23:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
I had to point out what (above) is probably the most hypocritical and laughable posting ever put on Wikipedia:
"And no, it was not an ad hominem attack, it was a simple question based on the fact that you are clueless about Kentucky and Kentucky politics."
Why didn't that guy just post "Allow me to deny that my prior ad hominem attack was an ad hominem attack and then try to justify it with yet another ad hominem attack"?
Pathetic. 20:08, 6 August 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.225.120.195 ( talk • contribs) .
Welcome to Wiki Ernie. Congrats on your Revisions of History. Do it enough and I bet most people will forget that you are tainted and will vote for you............Yeah, right.
Why would the events of August 23/24, 2006 be labeled as a 'plea deal'? No plea was entered. 'Agreement to dismiss' is more accurate.
We need an image of Ernie Fletcher for fair use in this article. If anyone can please find a pic and upload it with the correct tag, that would be great. Veracious Rey talk • contribs • review 20:11, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Governor Fletcher issued some very questionable criminal pardons at the end of his term in office. I think they are at least as significant as some of the things discussed in this article, such as the Cumberlands issues. That's especially true given Fletcher's controversial use of his pardon power earlier in his term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.111.28 ( talk) 20:01, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
I am relocating the "Executive orders" section here. As it is, the section includes only one executive order which, in the grand scheme of the events of Fletcher's administration, seems a pretty small issue. The section itself is pretty short; if it is replaced, there should be some discussion of lasing impacts that resulted from the order, if there are any. Acdixon ( talk • contribs • count) 17:05, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Copied text follows:
In April 2006, Fletcher signed an executive order removing language from the state's affirmative action plan specifically protecting state workers based on their sexual orientation and gender identity. Fletcher handed down his executive order on Kentucky's ninth annual "Diversity Day," reversing an order signed by former Governor Paul Patton two years earlier that protected state employees from bias including their sexual orientations or gender identities. [1]
References
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It looks like Fletcher was the "commander" of various USAF aircraft, including the F-4 Phantom. Well, I question this -- or at least the connection between his service as a commander and turning down a commission. Pilots in the USAF are officers. The F-4 does not require much of a crew. So how would Fletcher be a "commander" of the aircraft? (Yes, I know, the person piloting an aircraft is the pilot in command.) That is, if he did not have a commission, why was he piloting the craft? The utter lack of in-line citations makes this problem difficult to reconcile.-- S. Rich ( talk) 00:29, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
"He served in the U.S. Air Force as an F-4E Aircraft Commander and NORAD Alert Force Commander, leading flights that intercepted Soviet military aircraft during the Cold War."
"The next year, hoping to become an astronaut, he signed up for air force ROTC and after earning an engineering degree went on active duty. His assignment included interception of of Soviet aircraft near Alaska, and he got high marks from his superiors, but he turned down a regular commission when his six-year commitment was up in 1980."
Fletcher, a member of ROTC, graduated in 1974 and went straight to Air Force flight training in Oklahoma. After flight school, he was stationed in Alaska during the Cold War where he flew missions for three years. His Air Force training, Fletcher said, prepared him for everything else that came along -- medical school and politics. "It was always a lot of pressure. We were always being tested," he said. "We were intercepting Soviet aircraft, so we had to be up on enemy weapon systems. It was not a laid-back, relaxing job, but I liked it."
"Governor Fletcher joined the United States Air Force in 1974 and served as an F-4E Aircraft Commander and NORAD Alert Force Commander where he led flights that intercepted Soviet military aircraft during the Cold War. Fletcher departed the Air Force in 1980 with the rank of Captain. His awards and decorations included the Air Force Commendation Medal and the Air Force Outstanding Unit Award."
I've just changed the category listing to the more specific USAF officer. Regarding the commission, here is where some lack of expertise gets in the way of proper verification. He may have been a "reserve" commissioned officer in the USAF, but according to the last item you provided, he was commissioned. In the Army at least, we have officers of the "Regular Army" and the "Army of the United States". These are two branches of the officer corps, and both involve commissioning. I surmise the USAF has a similar arrangement. With this in mind, it is inaccurate to simply say he turned down a commission, because it looks like he had a commission (perhaps as a reserve officer). Moreover, it's inaccurate to say he turned down a regular commission because of such-and-such reason. From what I've seen, we do not have verification for this. Hence, my complaint about the lack of WP:IC. There are lots of cits, and while print cits are good, they are impossible to follow without the actual print article in-hand. Since the cits you've provided are available on-line, I hope you'll fix. Thank you so very much, Acdixon, and please forgive my overblown complaint about the citations.-- S. Rich ( talk) 15:38, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
PS: The entry about receiving an Air Force Outstanding Unit Award may be puffery on someone's part. To the uninformed reader, it may look like the individual received the award while actually the unit to which the individual unit was assigned received the award. Such awards are worn on the right side of the individual's uniform. The left side is for the awards given to the individual as an individual. At least in the Army, when you are a member of the unit that receives the Unit Award when it receives the award, you get to wear it always on the right. If you are a member of a unit that has received a Unit Award in the past, you get to wear the award while you are a member of the unit, but must remove it when you depart the unit. Small point, of interest only to military personnel. We look at these things when we look at the awards fellow service members have received, in small part to establish pecking order. It is no big deal (unless you are wearing an un-earned award), and certainly not an important item to a civilian. I hope you can clear up what Cross has said about turning down a commission without complicating the issue to much. Best regards. -- S. Rich ( talk) 15:54, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks again. Certainly leave the Unit Award in -- it is referenced properly. I do take issue with "citing" the reasons he left the Air Force. Did he say "I'm turning down the regular commission you have offered me because . . .."? (Worded this way makes it sound like he was making a sort of protest.) No. A more neutral tone is needed. I'd prefer something like, "As budget cutbacks were reducing his squadron's flying time and because he wanted to pursue a medical degree, Fletcher turned down a regular commission in the Air Force and enrolled in medical school." The "his squadron's flying time" is a red herring in three respects: One -- Once he received the regular commission, he very likely would have rotated out into another unit. Two -- It may have been his own morale and flying time that he was concerned about (e.g., he did not want to become a desk jockey). Three -- We know he wanted to become an astronaut and he saw the reduced flying time as hindering this ambition. These are surmises on my part, but they do illustrate how merely "citing reduced flying time" etc. is a POV statement.-- S. Rich ( talk) 16:58, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Feel free to send a message by my talk page or by Wikimail.-- S. Rich ( talk) 18:55, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Meishern ( talk) 19:54, 3 October 2010 (UTC) ~ Hello,
I will review this article. Please give me a week or so. Meishern ( talk) 19:54, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
OK. The way I review articles, is paragraph by paragraph, first checking refs. My goal is to get the article GA standard. So lets start with the intro.
INTRO
"He served as the 60th governor of Kentucky from 2003 to 2007. Prior to being elected governor, he was elected to three consecutive terms in the United States House of Representatives." Lets put dates he was in the House first, and continue with Governor dates.
What was his Bachelors degree and what year grad? refs.
What type of physician? (psychiatrist, neurologist, etc..) refs.
I don't know qualifications to become a Baptist Minister. Did he get certified, where? Church name & location. More info with refs.
"When legislative redistricting threatened to pit him against a member of his own party to retain his seat, he instead ran for Congress, " ... dont like this sentence. sounds POV. Make it more neutral.
"He immediately became one of"... same POV. rephrase this to make it neutral unless u show a reference.
"over Ben Chandler, grandson of two-time former governor A. B. "Happy" Chandler." ... is this necessary? "over the 4th cousin of John, who was twice governor". remove it since he didn't beat Happy Chandler but a relative.
The third paragraph of the intro better have a reference for practically every sentence. Some strong statements are made but I see nothing backing them up (references).
I would cut down the intro 3 paragraphs by 30%. There is too much useless info in my view and not enough relevant. This should be a quick overview not what the 3rd paragraph attempts to portray. (i am open to views on this subject)
You MUST put references into intro, or this will not pass.
Please remove photos of J Lenno, and candidates he defeated unless (reference) it was a major upset. Instead put photos of him with family, or flying plane, or doing surgery.
Please correct the intro and we will continue, you have 7 days.
Cheers! Meishern ( talk) 20:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Early Life
His family had a farm, a general store and his father worked for a Gas Company. His family was transfered for a few years to a different state? Need explanation about farm and general store. Who ran it? Sold? Or exclude it. They moved around, but no mention regarding store and farm. did they sell it? bankrupt? let relatives run it? need info.
I will do some adjustments, feel free to correct me.Cheers! Meishern ( talk) 21:06, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Section: Legislative Career
"character curricula"... could this be explained somehow or rephrased so that the average reader may get a better understanding what exactly it means? Cheers! Meishern ( talk) 06:29, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Section: Other matters of 2004 and legislative session of 2005
Thomas Clyde Bowling part should have subsection. I would break this section up. It is very interesting that a medical doctor orders an execution, and i feel deserves a section to itself. I will do it myself, see how article looks, and I am open to debate/opinion whatever on the subject. I just find it interesting. Cheers! Meishern ( talk) 07:07, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I read through it all twice. Now I need a beer and a massage, lol.
The article is well written in a neutral point of view with reliable/valid sources.
I see that this article is listed under Wiki Project Creationism/Intelligent design. There is no mention of these issues in the actual article at this point (other than him being listed under [[Category:Intelligent design advocates]]. With that in mind, should this article be delisted from that project?
By the way, a belated congratulations to everyone who worked on this article to get it to GA. The only thing I knew about him prior to reading this was the plane incident on the way to Reagan's funeral, and I found the article interesting and informative. Kansan ( talk) 00:15, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I just found this article after following the link to it in this week's Signpost. It's impressively comprehensive and well-sourced, and deserves to be a featured article; but I have to ask, what's the point of the 'Ancestors' section at the end? Tables like that are commonly used in articles on members of royal or noble families, where most or all of the ancestors have articles themselves; this is the first time I've seen it in an article on an 'ordinary person' (for lack of a better term), whose ancestors seem to have been entirely unremarkable. Does this table really add any useful information to the article, beyond what's in the 'Early life' section already? Robofish ( talk) 14:46, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
While I would disagree that US governors are just "ordinary" people, I don't think that the ahentafel charts are lacking useful information. So many US governors have gone on to higher offices or become notorious characters.
It seems that the "BE BOLD" aspect of Wikipedia has been abandoned by many editors and I would think that the ancestry of a governor might be of interest to someone. It's information that isn't conveniently found anywhere else and for someone doing research about a governor's family--particularly their ethnic, religious, economic, or geographic origins--the names are there and they can choose to do original research of their own on those individuals.
Several Kentucky governors came from large, political "machine" families: John Y. Brown, Jr, Buckner, Garrard, Crittenden, Helm and others come to mind. Some, like Brown, have children or other relatives who are currently active in Kentucky politics. Then we have notables like Goebel, Chandler, and Shelby, who are remarkable in their own right and their ancestry and political philosophies were directly influenced by their families' origins.
Personally, I do not see the ahentafel charts as being intrusive or cluttering to the articles as the default display is hidden. But if folks want me to stop adding them, I will. It's a tremendous amount of work, but to me it is enjoyable.
My amigo Acdixon is right that I am working on a project for the Kentucky Historical Society to document Kentucky's governors' ancestries. That work will include the very things I described above that helped shape those men and one woman to become governors. But that is original research and that's verboten on Wikipedia. The ahentafel charts for our more recent governors are bland--I cannot deny that. Not a lot of notable people in their ancestries. But the further back one goes, the number of governors with ancestors who have Wikipedia articles increases.
Honestly, I'm just glad that someone has noticed the work that I've been doing. Thank you for noticing, even if you don't think it's particularly valuable information.
-- Spacini ( talk) 15:48, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
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