This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
Support. I see no problem with moving the current article to
Duff Cooper (which is where anyone, I think, would expect to find it). Not sure about his son yet.
Mackensen(talk) 00:53, 21 August 2005 (UTC)reply
This article has been renamed after the result of a
move request.Dragons flight 04:28, August 31, 2005 (UTC)
Discussion
Add any additional comments
I think it is a bit silly to include the whole of Duff Cooper's title in the title of this article. As the article correctly states, he is universally known as Duff Cooper. Even sillier, however, is having his son listed as
John Julius Cooper, 2nd Viscount Norwich, when he is even more universally known as John Julius Norwich. I'm therefore requesting a move for both articles.
Deb 20:48, 20 August 2005 (UTC)reply
Yes, but Deb and I are the sorts who pushed through those rules in the first place ;). There's an exception for most common name. Duff Cooper is never known as Lord Norwich, whereas Tennyson is often known by his title (ditto Nelson). The issue with Tennyson and Nelson was the correct and unambiguous rendering of their title. In this situation, the issue is whether to note it in the article title at all.
Mackensen(talk) 12:52, 21 August 2005 (UTC)reply
Good catch. But then I don't understand your reasoning, since clearly (to me, at least :) nobody knows Lord Nelson as "Viscount Nelson"! What's the point of allowing this single exemption from the general rule? (Well, two exemptions.) --
Quuxplusone 00:45, 22 August 2005 (UTC)reply
Well, the matter is somewhat complicated, but I'll put it as simply as I can. Lord so-and-so is accepted shorthand for all British peers below the rank of duke (baron, viscount, earl, and marquess). While Nelson was properly titled Viscount Nelson, he could be referred to as Lord Nelson. However, that was not his actual title. The only peers who are titled thusly are
lords of parliament, and there aren't many of those about. Of course, further confusing matters, many barons are often simply called lords, because barons aren't a big deal. However, the proper title is still baron, not lord. Now, moving on towards your main point, Duff Cooper was made a peer late in his life, becoming Viscount Norwich. That's his proper title. He could also be called "Lord Norwich," as I did above. However, he was rarely known as such, especially as the "important" part of his life occurred when he was still a commoner. The naming guidelines recognize that there are situations when someone is best known by a name other than their final/eventual legal one (see also
Robert Stewart, Viscount Castlereagh). Duff Cooper represents one of these exceptions.
Mackensen(talk) 01:06, 22 August 2005 (UTC)reply
Actually, Duff Cooper falls under the exception (" or for any other reason are known exclusively by their personal names, do not include the peerage dignity.") No one calls him Lord Norwich; I imagine many don't even realize he was made a peer.
Mackensen(talk) 15:16, 21 August 2005 (UTC)reply
In other words, if a title is used at all, use the formal and correct one, with numeral; but if the title is not used (as with
Bertrand Russell), follow usage. Sounds good to me.
Septentrionalis 19:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)reply
In the info box Duff Cooper's spells as First Lord of the Admiralty and as Minister of Information have been omitted!
Norvo (
talk) 01:34, 21 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Depends what you mean by "significant". That is perhaps the wrong word as he was a civil servant doing what he had been ordered to do - but Egypt took up most of his time and he was involved in a lot of the twists and turns. It is covered in his own memoirs and in the 1980s John Charmley biog.
Paulturtle (
talk) 14:12, 13 April 2021 (UTC) You will note also that his maiden speech in the House in 1924 was on Egypt, so he was regarded as a bit of an expert on the subject.
Paulturtle (
talk) 04:56, 28 May 2021 (UTC)reply
Norway Debate
While Cooper contributed to the debate and voted against Chamberlain, it is absolutely wrong to assert that he played a significant part. Compared with Keyes, Amery and Lloyd George, Cooper was just jumping on the bandwagon. The UNSOURCED OPINION has been removed.
No Great Shaker (
talk) 22:25, 23 January 2021 (UTC)reply