Remember
Lets avoid single-purpose accounts
Lets also note that the section was brought back by an administrator. [1] Due to complaints, I made the sections different. [2] [3] UnclePaco ( talk) 03:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
51% Mulatto population of Quisqueya is accurate, by you placing " 90% African heritage? you making it seem that DR is Uganda or Zambia. African heritage comes in many forms, it could be by itself or it could be mixed. You can say that a Shaka Zulu has " African heritage", and that a Korean/Black mixed has " African heritage", but the two examples are not the same. We need to be more specific about types of " African heritage".
Northern Dominicans a.k.a Cibaeños, specially the light ones from the Central Valley, show strong European decent, mixed in with African, but in some locales, the European side shows more, as is the case with me. Stop trying to portray the whole of DR as if it were Zambia or Gabon, because it isn't. Is not that it is " bad " to be dark skin African, but that is just the fact. DR speaks Spanish,that has survived and is intelligible with other Spanish-speaking countries not some " creole" like in Haiti, Jamaica and other neighbors.
In reference to the term " Mulatto", wether is considered " offensive" , that is subjective. Stop imposing North American " political correctness". DR is a different country with different history. Mulatto wasn't always " a house negro " like in the U.S context. First of all, the mixed population resulted mostly in concensual interaction, that explains how many of them held administrative positions, some owned Black slaves and even became presidents. So stop this " all the America's is Kinta Kunte syndrome". Study some history before. I recommend you read Torres-Saillant's Essay " The Tribulations of Blackness" about the rise of the Mulatto in DR. Platanogenius 06:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)PLATANOGENIUS
the 90% african heritage is from the Dominican Institute at City College. I doubt a dominican institute would offend or try to offend DR. 90% African heritage means that 90% of the population has some sort of African roots. Haiti speaks French/Creole, Jamaica - English, Cuba Spanish, Puerto Rico - Spanish. The African heritage statement is not at all false and is cited by a reputable source. Mulatto like Negro is offensive in todays world. Feel free to place in reputable sources. 64.131.205.111 08:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
90% black ? I went to that link and saw that it says black and mulattos make the 90%. As being dominican myself I was always taught that the majority of dominicans are mulattos, the rest are white, black, or from the "other" category. I think the CIA fact book has more accuracy towards dominican demographics, not this new citation that was added.
I give up This page all is using Anti-Dominican propaganda...this not about history or facts is about people point of view. I tried bring to a discussion that didn't work. I'm Dominican and I know what I am. This page has turn to the forum about how Dominican treat Haiti. The fact of the matter is no country in the world has done for Haiti what Dominican Republic does for it but hey we can't please the world only for the fact the world does care and what blame the one that trying help. How you deny citizenship when they not in title to it, what Dominican Republic can't follow it own law...Italy have right of blood, USA is right of birth. Every country has it own thing but no Dominican Republic can't have it own thing. I know there lot money been put on the fact make Dominican look like South Africa but that why there a law suit going on, that why amnesty is eating it own words, say we never said this or that. That why the Frances backing off. What you write today don't matter cause History will say at the end who right. There a saying if don't move the dog will not bark, when you start moving froward the dog will. Put blank DR must been doing something right, that everyone wanna have it there mouth. Avfnx 20:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC) I go with You Avfnx...No other country in the world cares about Haiti and is the truth..You see George W Bush going there and he doesnt do any crap..He just talks to the president and then leaves. We cant ignore that Haiti and DR are two different countries and we are not suppose to help them out because the rest of the world wants us to. The World wants to blame us the problem haiti is facing today but they dont realize that DR is playing an important role in giving out jobs to to haitian Illegal Immigrants(they may not be good jobs but they provide enough for food and Basic Needs)..PLEASE DONT GIVE UP!!!I AM GOING TO SEMI-Protect this page as soon as possible! EdwinCasadoBaez 00:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Biasing This article does not respect the Neutral Point of View. It looks like its intention is to re-write history and delete any trace of Spanish ancestry by calling things like language and religion left overs. Besides, an anonymous user is trying to make it look that my edits are vandalism by stating that I added things that I didn't. I have to admit that Dominicans tend to ignore and even reject our African ancestry (even when it is physically obvious), but denying our Spanish heritage is wrong too. Several of the statements are not backed exactly as they say by their references. For example, the sentence that says that 90% of Dominicans are of African descent (without mentioning other races involved in it) is somehow biased. Not wrong, but not exactly right. The article [5] states that "90% of Dominicans are black or mulattos". Note that mulattos are not only of African descent. They (or we, I am one myself) also have some sort of white somewhere in their blood line.from -- 22:41, 22 May 2007 Dominican (Talk | contribs)
Looking at the history it was traced to you. The I believe people who use the encyclopedia have a good comprehension of english and know the difference. Also again mulatto is a deragory word as is Negro. Mulattos are by definition a mixture of black and white. As such they have have african roots. So if you like you can say that 90% of the dominican population has african roots or ancestry. Better words for you to use might be Zambo, or mestizo , but then you would have to find statistics to back this up. [6] 64.131.205.111 00:20, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Mulattos is wide use among Dominicans, we don't deny either one white or black. The things is we dont see that our self as race system of USA, Dominican are Dominican that it, like the culture is a mix, a blend of world culture Avfnx 03:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
User Dominican above states taht many dominicans tend to ignore their african ancestry, would you not say that ignore is very similiar to almost the same as denial? 64.131.205.111 03:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
So the gooks in Vietnam? The Fags in San Francisco, and the Niggers in South Carolina. Yes it is a fact that this is a term to use when referring to them. This does not make it non-derogatory. How about we use something like "african and spaniard mixture" this would be correct without using the word. 64.131.205.111 18:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
CUNY IS NOT SPECIFIC AND POSIBLY BIASED. You(the ip person)present the " CUNY" source, so what? 90% African is not an accurate, because like the other person said, it oblitarates the European heritage completely, by not making any mention of it.
I don't know who you are or what your agenda is, but I do find the demographic article to be offensive to Cibaeño(Northern) Dominicans. We know who we are, we know our country. My family has been in Quisqueya for centuries, they have fought the French, the Haitians and the Spaniards in the 18th century, it has been passed out from generation to generation. So stop insulting the heritage of white-skin Dominicans here, like if " we don't exist". Platanogenius 16:07, 23 May 2007 (UTC)Platanogenius.
You should actually take a look at CCNY, who went there, the amount of noble prize winnners, fortune 500 executives, as well as sports championships that have come from the school. If you have a strong idea of CUNY you would know that CCNY is a college within the CUNY system. CUNY is a world class univeristy system and CCNY I can easily say has produced more world renown students than any university in the Carribean including DR. Even Colin Powell went there. Secondly, white skinned dominicans does not mean that they are white or caucasion. They can still be white skinned be black. This exists within African Americans i.e. [8] [9] [10] . No one insulted white skinned dominicans or stated that they don't exist. 64.131.205.111 18:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Lastly, the CUNY Dominican Institute at CCNY is very specific and has done much work. You should take a read at it. [11]
Did you know that many asians have green eyes? http://kennethomura.tripod.com/asian_eyes/ So eye color does not make you any specfic race. Terrence Howard the actor has green eyes [12] . There are many people who aren't white who have light colored eyes. http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13035&PN=5 Is a prime example. Do look at the photographs on the website. Light skin doesnt mean you are white. Asians have light skin and some have grey eyes. But they are not caucasian. Caucasian is a race and it seems like you are trying your hardest to be or relate to something you are not. 64.131.205.111 02:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
"IP" you have to get your facys straight. As long as you are vandalizing this site I will have to change the history and demographic sections. I will not tolarate all of this misinformation. I was born and lived in the Domincan Republic, and I know for a fact that you are vandalizing this site. Most Domincans have African ancestors, but we also have European ancestors in the same amount, and we treasure our national culture as a MIXED nation. Get your FACTS right! Comments left by banned vandalistic user Revision as of 19:07, 31 May 2007 (edit) (undo) Memeco (Talk | contribs) who was banned as a sockpuppet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Memeco
I sincerley do not believe this would have been such a huge discussion if it stated that, "90% of Dominicans have Spanish/European Ancestry" This is common among hispanics like; Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, cubans, and others who have both african and spanish/white ancestry. They often become hostile when their african heritage is brought up in discussion more than their european heritage. When that happens you will notice that they are very much eager and shouting, "in a sense".."Hey!!, I have white ancestors, My grandmother has blue eyes and blonde hair, I have first cousins with red hair.!"
Trust me I know this from personal experience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.228.0.79 ( talk) 20:01, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
YOUR CONCEPT OR RACE IS LUDRICOUS
To ip 64.131, you are trying to impose " one-drop rule myth", hyperdecent and other racist thrash from the legacy of Jim Crow into a country like DR. Ernesto Sagas is a Dominican professor at CUNY,and not even him accepts that thrash. You showed yourself. You showed a picture of Collin Powell? hahaha. That's not what I meant by " white-skin" Dominicans. Collin Powell( a Mulatto, btw) is FAR from being " white-skinned". I placed the suffix " -skinned" on purpose. I meant by that, is that even when there is a mixture, the amount of European blood is much larger, thus giving the person " White skin" and more European-like characteristics. Not somebody looking like Simbad. Ex: link title, [ http://www.hoy.com.do/article.aspx?&id=18092# link title. These people passed as White during the colonial period. If they have a grandfather looking like Collin Powells, then they cannot they are " white" like some Viking let's say. But i'm wondering how come nobody is calling Bill Clinton a " mestizo" since he had a Cherokee grandmother?? hmm. Nice North American double-standards, one-drop only applies when it comes to African decent only. Anyways, I'm not here to discuss the " screwed up concept of race" in other countries, but the reality of DR. The concensus here among Dominicans, is that the " 90% African decent" is a vague statement, people that claim other heritages mixed, want to be classified as mixed, in the case of DR, as Mulattoes, because they DO VIEW themselves racially different from the Sammy Sosa-type Dominicans. Platanogenius 05:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)platanogenius.
Alright, no one is forcing this on DR. DR doesnt own this article. This is on the American and English version of wikipedia. Secondly, not to insult you, but your grammar shows that you aren't a native english speaker. Thus you may not fully understand some of the nuances of the conversation. You are claiming European like characteristics without being European. In all honesty, why don't you just say Spaniard. White skinned? Colin Powell is white skinned. So is Vanessa_L._Williams. Have you thought that maybe that all those nations don't have a screwed up concept of race and maybe some Dominicans are in denial? Look at your own former president rafael trujillo [13] "attempts to "whiten" the predominantly mixed-race nation. He favored the arrival of white or Caucasian people over the rest, in a methodical attempt to increase the white population" . "Trujillo was openly inspired by Hitler's racial theories and ordered the massacre as a way of "whitening" his country. To quiet critics, Trujillo deployed an intense "Dominicanization" propaganda campaign portraying his racist mania as a paternal act to save his people from Haiti. " [14] . This belief exists even today. You do know that denial isn't just a river in Egypt, right? 64.131.205.111 16:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Did i ever said that Eye color makes you an specific race???Did i ever stated in the above comments that i wanted to be white or caucasian?I AM PROUD TO BE DOMINICAN AND THATS WHAT I AM....The only reason i brougtht up that i am light skinned and my family is too is so you can know that a lot of people in DR are not of African Ancenstry and that "90% african acenstry" is not factual!Thats all am trying to say here and then you accuse me that i am trying to be white which is not true and that makes me feel angry by you saying that..So you should watch your mouth!!! EdwinCasadoBaez 02:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
You implied that b/c you have green eyes and white skin you must have caucasian or european blood. I proved you to be false. Again light skin doesnt make you non african. Again denial is more than a river in egypt. 64.131.205.111 02:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Where the fuk did i said that...you stupid idiot...i said that this proves that 90% to be african descent is totally wrong but it doesnt mean am white either..stop pulling words from my mouth without i ever saying something like that..is not like Being WHITE gives you and extra preference..all i know is that i am dominican and that the quotation is not accurate!...Dont you realize that everybody goes against you in this discussion???Is because you wrong! EdwinCasadoBaez 02:25, 25 May 2007 (UTC) '
It is your own denial or what ever you want to call it that makes outsiders see you all as that.Please take notice of the no personal attack policy of wikipedia. [16] Not everyone, just some people who are native born dominicans who don't want the truth about the abuses that have gone against some haitians to be out there. As well as the racial demographics. 64.131.205.111 03:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Do you think i give an F*** about the no Personal Attack policy...you are being disrespectfull here too so you should be quiet!!What you say is not the truth Man!!!is not the truth!you have to go around DR a couple of more times and you have to see the truth by your own self!!you have to see the other side of the story not only the ones that Webpages and the CCNY Dominican Institute shows. And as i say again i think everyone does go against your thoughts! EdwinCasadoBaez 04:06, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Please take notice of the no personal attack policy of wikipedia. [17] . If you continue on with it, you will be blocked! 64.131.205.111 07:49, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
BIASED MINDSET AGAINST DR. I'm not going to engage into a Bizantine Arguement with a one-droppist/Jim Crower. Your mind is made up already. English is not my native language, that's right, but my message goes thru fine, the problem is that there are " mental blockades" for other people that get bothered with the truth.
I've never said that I'm European,because I wasn't born and raised in Europe,but I DO have majority European blood, nobody, neither in country redneck southern u.s or Europe has ever one-dropped me, so if you don't know me, don't be talking thrash. Also, don't be lecturing me on Dominican history,about " Trujillo", because you don't even scratch the tip of the iceberg. Trujillo killed my grandfather in 1956, he was against his abuses, all that appeared on the newspapers was " Dr.x dissapeared Tuesday night", and that was it. He was whiter than cotton, as many members of my family. My greatgrandparents helped many Haitians scaped the 1937 Massacre.
What you thought, that just because I acknowledge my European Ancestry,which is a FACT, evident in my phenotype and family lineage, that would automatically make it a " Trujillist idealist" or " whitening/denial, etc,etc?? You don't know me to prejudice me. Back in the 1930's, racism and discrimination was legal everywhere. The president of El Salvador, Maximiliano Gomez, prohibited the entrance of Blacks into that country in the 1930's, Argentina also had White-only immigration laws, Japan was carrying out massacres and proclaiming themselves superior to the Chinese. Hell, even in the U.S, there were signs saying " No Irish allowed", and the Irish are whiter than virgin snow. So don't be singling out DR as the " only devil" in the world community back then. You have shown us here your biased agenda, like if Spanish language and religion and other customs fell out of planet Mars, instead from the remnants of the colonial era like my family.
That's right, DR doesn't own wikipedia, neither do you. You don't own the English language too. Tell me, who decided that terms like " Negro and Mulatto" are offensive in the English language?? I'm going to ask Queen Elizabeth II, maybe she is the owner of the English language, if she finds it offensive, then it is offensive then " sigh".
Be assured that the biased demographics that you presented WILL BE CHANGED,to include the diverse racial landscape of DR, not some anti-dominican, anti-european heritage biased, reactionary view. DR is a country with diverse political, religious, social views, NOT everybody is a " anti-africanist", or " Scandinavian-wannabe". 70.177.181.129 23:58, 24 May 2007 (UTC)platanogenius.
Dominicans who have any type of European blood have spaniard blood. Spaniards by the way are mixed with Moors. The Moors ruled most of Spain for hundreds of years and as a result there is still African blood in spain. So any way you rule it DR has african blood. Secondly many nations had slavery and racism, but most declared it to be illegal and stopped the open practice of it. DR has yet to do that. [18] Which is a shame. You talk about Trujillo being so bad, but you are still believing a lot of the values he put forth. The anti-black, denial of african roots and more. Did you know that Merengue which was made the national music of DR by Trujillo was originally haitian music [19] . It was one of his biggest accomplishments and a dedication to his haitian roots. Well, anyway, keep reading. Society by the way decides that negro and mulatto are offensive terms. 64.131.205.111 00:39, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Merengue came from Haiti wow that a first, what happen to the theory that was going on the web that merengue was from PR. Dominican do there own music, don't need steal no one music like some country of the Caribbean. (and im not talking about Haiti, for the record. Avfnx 02:07, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
So you're saying that Trujillo wasn't part Haitian? Are you also saying that Meringue and Merengue aren't the same with the exception that one is in creole and the other is in spanish and the beat is slightly faster in Merengue? It's like saying Spanish rap didn't originate in the bronx and wasn't based off american rap. that's just being silly. 64.131.205.111 02:13, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
For one thing i never said Trujillo wasn't part Haitian i asked for for other page that would say the same thing, and did I argue after that?...and if was the same thing what make you think it had come from Haiti 1st...merengue been part of DR from day one. So saying Trinitario inspire the KKK? when it had a dark skin man as the leader. Avfnx 05:51, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I NEVER SAID NOR DO I THNK THE TRINITARIO INSPIRED THE KKK. If anything their uniforms were inspired by the spanish inquisition. If you notice, i came around after that was already on the site. That was by another user. So what makes you think that merengue is from DR since day one? can you prove it? I showed enough evidence that it was haitian music. 64.131.205.111 06:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
DON'T ARGUE WITH THAT FARRAKHANISTIC MORON Why do you argue with that Farrakhan?? Ignore that moron, he doesn't know any better. Around 51% percent of DR is Mulatto(euro/black)or mixed and 46% Black. The mixed population lives mainly in the North,also known as the Cibao, while the Blacks are from the South like Sammy Sosa. This guy is a believer of " one-droppism", hyperdecent". So forget about convincing this fool. It is like a religion, it is very hard to convert somebody from one into another.
Northern Dominicans aka Cibaeños know who they are, they don't need these idiots to tell them what are they or what they are. This idiot doesn't know jack about our history. There are ignorant people in every nationality, granted, but that doesn't give license to generalize an entire nationlaity based on the reactions of some people. I'm Dominican, nobody has ever called me Black, even in the redneck deep south, even thou I do have Black blood, due to the fact that my family is not racist and some intermarrired with dark mulattoes. Anyways, ignore these idiots,look how he is bad-mouthing white people. white people have done lots of evil, true, but this idiot wouldn't even be talking garbage thru this computer if it wasn't for this invention from the white man in the first place. That's just to tell you about his pea-sized brain. Some people's intellectual levels, in any race or ethnicity, is just Jurassic, just stay away from debating things like politics, religion or race with Neantherthals. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Platanogenius ( talk • contribs) 01:55, May 25, 2007 (UTC)
You should familiarize yourself with Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. 64.131.205.111 02:06, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Getting back to what you stated. It is not Euro/black .. in the case of DR it is Spaniard/black and going by those numbers 46% black. so that would make 97% of people in DR having roots that were based in Africa. Some family members married dark mulattos? or did they marry blacks? lol? There is nothing wrong with being white. There is something wrong with the thinking of people who deny what they are and who they are. 64.131.205.111 02:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
YOUR INTELLECTUAL LEVEL NEEDS TO GROW. Hey Einstein, when did I say anything anti-africanist here?? please point it out for me. I'm even against the CIA sources that some people wanted to place on the article here, the one about 73% mulatto,16% white and 11% black. Do you think that I'm going to be crazy enough to believe DR is only 11% Black?? I'll be too ashamed of saying such a thing. I agree on you on that one. 51% mulatto, 46% black, 2% white is the real demographic approximates of DR. Where is the " denial, anti-black, blaha blah and all the non-sense accusations that you are making by me saying that?? I stated an increase from 11% that somebody else place here from CIA to 46%, that's an increase of 35. So I am the anti-black, racist,denier???
I knew that you where going to throw the " Moor myth" about Spaniards, you are showing the radical afrocentric nut. What's next? you also believe in Van Sertima's book, that the Olmec heads of the Yucatan peninsula are Africans? or that snow is really black?? DNA studies in Spaniards show that less than 2% have Moor blood. It has been weed out,since the fall of Cordova in 1236, by the " limpieza de sangre" campaign of the christians. Spaniards are White as are the anglo-saxons,and the Irish. I'm not going into deep details about " Moors and Spain" with a radical Afrocentric nut, but going back to the article, we are not going to allow that the DR article is going to get hijack by radical afrocentric nut, nor eurocentric too. As you can see, I'm not eurocentric, 16% white to 2% white, do the math.
You think that you where going to deal with an ignoramus, but when it comes to history, you are kindergarten compared to me. You say " society" says that such words are offensive? wow, impresive answer. You still don't own Wikipedia and the English language, and you don't speak for " society", " society" has diverse views of the world. The article will be changed. Platanogenius 02:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)platanogenius
You state all this statistics with no sources. What is up with that? Why don't you read this http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/portugal.html "From that time onwards, racial mixing in Portugal, as in Spain, and elsewhere in Europe which came under the influence of Moors, took place on a large scale. That is why historians claim that "Portugal is in reality a Negroid land," and that when Napoleon explained that "Africa begins at the Pyrenees," he meant every word that he uttered." 64.131.205.111 03:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
SPANIARDS ARE NOT WHITE?? OH LORD 51% euro/black and 46% black,that is 46% afro decent and 51% afro-mixed decent,that makes it neutral, becuase Mulatto is a separate racial group, they view themselves different from the Blacks. Now, if you have a problem with that, which you certainly have, then that don't belong in this article. It is an accurate description of DR demographics, and CCNY-DS,KNOWS IT, and WILL agree and cooperate. You can go and take your radical afrocentrism to Maulana Karenga.
and example is the demographics that show about El Salvador in wiki, it says " 90% mestizo,9% white,1% indian". In my personal opinion, Indian might be more percentage, some mestizos might look " more indian than 50/50 or 40/60. Since Mestizos DUE view themselves different from Indians, why don't you go and invade the article and type " 91% of Salvadoreans are of amerindian decent". 90% amerindian-mixed population " doesn't equate to " amerinidan decent". that just creates confusion. So if other articles of latin american countries can word it like that? why not DR?? Platanogenius 02:56, 25 May 2007 (UTC)platanogenius
Why don't you read this http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/portugal.html "From that time onwards, racial mixing in Portugal, as in Spain, and elsewhere in Europe which came under the influence of Moors, took place on a large scale. That is why historians claim that "Portugal is in reality a Negroid land," and that when Napoleon explained that "Africa begins at the Pyrenees," he meant every word that he uttered." I have no idea why you are talking about the El Salvadoreans in that they don't have a serious relation to DR. The tainos were killed off, not like Central American Indians. moors never entered France, Germany, Sweden, England, Italy, Poland, Denmark, but they did enter spain and portugal. 64.131.205.111 05:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
UNBELIEVABLE, TALKING TO A CHILD You placed a radical Afrocentric link, oh lord. You forgot to place a Van Sertima link too, and the other one that says that Hannibal and Cleopatra were Black too. The scholars at CCNY-DSI will be very enterntained reading your thrash. I knew that you were going to quote Napoleon about the " Pyrennees". He didn't mean that Iberia is racially different to France by that. By me saying El Salvador, It was just an EXAMPLE, about how other articles word the demographics when MIXED RACE PEOPLE ARE INVOLVED. Where the hell I tried to imply that DR looks like a Salvador demographically in anyway?? Jesus Christ ! Anyways,the hijack of Wikipedia's English language Dominican Republic Article by radical afrocentric-onedroppist will be over soon. Platanogenius 04:23, 25 May 2007 (UTC)platanogenius.
again no personal attack policy of wikipedia should be followed. [20] . Someone, I belive you started stating the demographics of el salvador. Which has nothing to do with DR. When Napolean said that he totally meant that it was racially different. I guess when they say that Portugal was negroid they didn't believe it was a different race either, right? 64.131.205.111 05:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
AN ARRAYANO HIJACKING THE DR ARTICLE. This person clearly has a pro-haitian agenda at the expense of DR. According to this individual, everything Dominican is actually Haitian !! He putted a bogus link as a " supposed" prove that merengue is originally a Haitian genre. The link doesn't confirm anything, it just says it might be a probability( they just talk about the dance,not the music or the instruments they play).
The same thing he did with the demographics. The link from CUNY doesn't say anything about " 90% African decent". and what is his problem is placing it " 51% mulatto, 46% black, 2% white" anyways?? why it bothers him so much people identifying their mixed background?
Fellow Dominicans, we have to do something to weed out this biased character, who simply place " bogus" sources. I mean, think about it, Maulana Karenga can say that there were Black people in China in 300 b.c and this character will place that as a " bonafide" source. Because for him, Karenga might be " the enlightened one". the internet is full with " scholars with agendas" out there, you just " pick and choose" and post it on a webpage. You can see that in the Israel article, Tibet article, etc, etc.
Please [21] do not make personal attacks. Your edits appear to be vandalism This is your final warning if you do it again, you will be blocked. Thank you. 64.131.205.111 21:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
thats not a personal attack.he is telling his belief and views about what you seem to edit. Truthfully i do agree with him because of the fact that you are reverting all edits that go against your point of views.You revert mines,His,and the other wikipedians around in this article. Then you blame us and place us in a list to be blocked!!!c'mon learn to be more neutral atleast!When you edit people do not revert them because we know how to respect.We are people of concensus something that you should understand the same way as we do here! EdwinCasadoBaez 21:53, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
that is a personal attack. the same way you made a personal attack against me. You should cease from attacking others. point blank! 64.131.205.111 22:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
famiarize yourself with wikipedia policy. 64.131.205.111 22:06, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
He placed me on the list to be blocked..I saw it!He placed me on the list because i was being "disrespectfull". You requested for me to be blocked [22] EdwinCasadoBaez 22:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I didn't place you on anything. [23] 64.131.205.111 04:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
JSTOR SAYS " NEARLY 90% BLACK AND MULATTOES." The censor here says information has to be from " sources". Well, there are many types of sources. The article from JSTOR by Silvio Torres-Saillant ( I know him, and read his article years ago).clearly says " 'NEARLY 90% BLACK AND MULATTO'". So I request, that EXACTLY THAT BE PLACED ON THE ARTICLE ! or perhaps, type and equivalent quotation "nearly 90% Black and mixed European and African". If not, delete it. Because it is CLEAR, the the agenda of the editor, was to phase out any MIXED-RACE HERITAGE in DR. or make DR look like Haiti or Ghana,Congo, etc.
If the censor here has a problem with the word" Mulatto", then why place a source that contains that word in the first place?? Just find another source that doesn't have it. In the meantime, if the demographic info offered by the source cited mentions it, then IT SHOUDL BE PLACED ON THE ARTICLE. We are not going to be " CHERRY-PICKING", for any given person's biased agenda. Thank you. 70.177.181.129 17:56, 28 May 2007 (UTC)platanogenius.
English culture. Mulatto is deragotory. Black-mix in america is black. Also platanogenius. This is your final warning. No personal attacks. The next time you will be blocked. 64.131.205.111 18:07, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
In addition the article says "African ancestry or has African roots" which is equal in meaning to black and mulatto. Please stop trying to force your own agenda. 64.131.205.111 18:08, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
WHY THE HAITIAN IS GETTING AWAY WITH THIS? Fellow Dominicans, this biased, prejudiced and reactionary Haitian has hijacked this article. Any edit that we put, whether it has sources that are better than the sources that he presents, he deletes. Is this guy a moderator here that is abusing authority here?
The word is spreading thru out the prominent Dominican websites on the internet, " a tomar cartas en el asunto". 70.177.181.129 04:32, 28 May 2007 (UTC)platanogenius.
The reference states that 90% of dominicans are black and mulattoes. The current statement on the page states only partial information based on the supplied reference.
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0094-582X(199805)25%3A3%3C126%3ATTOBSI%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimmyjones1122 ( talk • contribs)
This a first, im Dominican born and I can't find anywhere in my documents where it says my race. What someone put was skin color, that where we use color like trigeno and so. This Anti-Dominican know so much that something i can't find where ceduala or passport says race. This article everyday turning more and more to pure garbage. Haitian made article talking about DR, I know there anti-Dominican propagana going only cause Haiti mess up there country and now what turn DR to a desert..like Haiti is (Al Gore documentary for those that wanna know where I got my info from) AvFnx 00:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
would also be considered to be near white in Dominican culture http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/940000/images/_942489_raoul_cedras300elvisap.jpg . Haitian revolutionary and general André Rigaud was mulatto . The mulatto's were the one's who liberated Haiti [24] look up Alexandre Pétion. General Jean-Pierre Boyer the Haitian President who unified or invaded the colony of Santo Domingo was mulatto as well. [25] . So it wasn't the "blacks haitians" who invaded Dominican Republic it was the mulatto haitians! Haiti is as mixed as the Dominican Republic. The difference is that Haiti recognizes it's culture. The Dominican Republic is well documented to be in denial of it. Ideology is what kept many down and continues to keep many people down. 64.131.205.111 08:17, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
more on the ID cards
You are right, AVnx, those ID cards say nothing about race, it just say color. And since when color means race?? So if some Dravidian person has " color=negro" on his card, that means that he is African?? But you know where that bs comes from? from some "scholars "like Ernesto Sagas from CUNY, who does seem to have a hidden agenda. He stated that " color=indio" on cards, meant that " race is Indian". He had a rain of critics for publishing that garbage on his book, I'll find it later and publish it here. Torres-Saillant on the other hand, is more careful in not making such stupid assertions that later can be exploited by people like...you know who. and that is the problem that we have now. " indio" can mean one of two things, a person can mean it as " color of an indian,or cinammon color" or " indian decent". More likely, it is the first, since in DR school textbooks say that indians(tainos)got extinct. " Indio" is just description of the varios shades of Mulatto, but how that exactly negates African ancestry if you don't even ask that person that question?? and that is called prejudice. Making an entire judgement just because somebody said " indio"?? Ernesto Sagas don't explain none of this, so his book is kind of caca, because it doesn't elaborate more on that.
Puerto Ricans could never talk bad about Dominicans because they used to migrate our island in large quantities in the late 1800's and early 1900's...Infact the only reason we leave to puerto rico is to use it as a bridge to get to the United States..Only like 25% of the ones that reach Puerto Rico actually stay there!
69.118.48.94 21:27, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
That is simply racist and without any kind of factual basis . That kind of talk does not belong in this article. BoriquaStar 03:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Last time I tried bring this up went of subject. Dominican Republic don't categorizes people by race, what that article is talking is skin color. that need to get clean up, or erase, or any other suggestion. AvFnx 15:15, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Calling our self mix is the right term, that way we don't deny any of race. I don't see how calling mix is denying any race. If was that one race is been push over other then there they be a deny of race, but instead all race that make up Dominican been push forward. This article seem to be pushing Dominican should call them self African and forget about there Hispanic and Taino Culture and blood...What wrong calling you self mix when you are. AvFnx 00:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Taino's were extermindated in hispanola. They only servived in Puerto Rico and Cuba. Hispanic is a mixture of black, white, indian. I think you mean, Spaniard, and Black when you talk about DR. BoriquaStar 08:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
:There evidence of Tainos getting mix with the population, do you watch the history channel there even said that as high of 80 percent of the Dominican population has Taino blood in them. Dominican History books says they got mix with the population. That a whole different issue, point is that Racial identity say that Dominican should call them self African descents and forget about the other mixtures. AvFnx 08:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
The United Nations says that it is racism. [29] . Since a consensus can't be reached simply file for an RFC. [30] BoriquaStar 14:44, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Why you care so much about this? AvFnx 17:16, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I think the majority want this part taken off, I don't want go in to editing war...if anyone against please give the reason why it should stay. AvFnx 06:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
[31] see to one side it...let agree on having neutral sources AvFnx 17:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
[32] That trying playing as news...seem to one sided to be considered a good source AvFnx 22:57, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
What makes it not a good source? I fail to see what makes it bad or one sided. It's a site that seems to detail human right abuses. This here may be a good article to use from the same source. [33] It speaks about how the Constitution works " Article 11 of the Dominican Republic's Constitution, which bestows citizenship on anyone born within the borders of the Dominican Republic, babies born to Dominico-Haitians and Haitian immigrants — many of whom had been living in the Dominican Republic for decades — are often said to be infants of those who are "in transit" and thus not eligible for citizenship, as also written in the Constitution. This widespread use of the "in transit" clause as justification for the denial of birth certificates has sparked outrage among non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and human rights groups, and has been cited in reports issued by organizations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. " This would challenge the right of blood controversy that has seemed to been a cause of issues on this talk page. If anything can someone get an english translation of constitution of the Dominican Republic. BoriquaStar 01:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Dominican Americans--like many other Hispanics--often shun the rigid racial model prevalent in U.S. society and instead view themselves as racially mixed, neither white nor black, nor other single race citation needed. Since 1980, the Census Bureau has asked U.S. residents to classify their race separately from their Hispanic origin, if any. In 1990, 29.2% of Dominican Americans responded that they were white, while 30% considered themselves black. A plurality chose the "other" category--39.8% of the total. [1] The prevalence of the "other race" category probably reflects the large number of people with mixed African, European and Amerindian ancestry, usually grouped under the folk term indio in the Dominican Republic (73% of the bitches Dominicans are mixed European, African, and Taino Amerinidan descent). In the United States, they often define their racial identity in ethnic terms--that is, based on their national origin--or in pan-ethnic terms, such as Hispanics or Latinos (the self-titles used by a small percentage of Dominican Americans whom lived or their parents lived in the US before 1960, as the majority of Dominicans with a solely national self-title "(Nuyo) Dominican Yorks" and kiss ass "Puerto-Dominicans" arrived later). Thus, Dominican Americans contest the country's traditionally narrow view on race by expanding the number of possible racial categories or pressing for the public recognition of racially mixed persons ( Dominican Americans are both mulatto and mestizo). At any rate, the current system of racial classification in the United States does not capture well the multiracial Hispanic experience in general, as recent research suggests. [2]
from Dominican American
seem to be a better one then the one in Dominican Republic page. It only a thought AvFnx 06:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
According to a recent poll commissioned by Hoy newspaper and prepared by the GALLUP polling firm, 55% of those polled see your fucking mother themselves as "Indian". This probably does not mean that they think of themselves as descendant of native Americans, since "indio" in the Dominican Republic usually only refers to the color of the skin. According to the same poll, 16% think of themselves as mulatos, 12.5% as black, 12% as white, 2.4% yellow and 1% as "jabao", which in the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico is a term used to describe a black person with European face features (such as Hally Berry).
In a related matter, the portal in a note referring to the same poll states that the Dominican identification card no longer specifies the holder's race and ethnicity is not a requirement on most official documents. Since I don't live there anymore and don't have access to that document I cannot verify if that is indeed correct.-- Ulises Jorge
http://www.hoy.com.do/article.aspx?id=122719
I agree with the first comment here, is that entire tirade about how they lost their africanness really needed. It completely ignores the 500 years the DR has experienced as a racial melting pot and the dominican experience and culture that has evolved since them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.34.21 ( talk) 23:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I strongly disagree this part of article. Dominican Republic population doesn't see it self as race, or any where in the government paper is there race. This article make seem like it a race, where it actually it skin color. AvFnx 05:10, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Well that section appears to be cited. If you can find evidence that shows that this isn't the case then please posted it and allow other people to debate it. Have you contacted Alabamaboy ? he seems to be the one who inserted the section.
[34]
149.68.105.27 16:23, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
If you look here, he is actually an administrator. So he should be simple to contact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alabamaboy 149.68.105.27 16:26, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
What is the purpose of having both the "Racial identity issues" and the "Self-identification" on the same article? They both seems to refer to the same subject. ujorge —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 16:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Actually, my block was taken off
[35] by an administrator as a result of my filing a suspected sockpuppet of EdwinCasadoBaez
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/EdwinCasadoBaez which led to a compromise being made. In answer to your statement. There is no Taino blood in current DR's. They were exterminated by the spaniards.
[36] . You state that DR doesn't look at blood, but there are hundreds of references to the contrary including
[37]
[38]
[39]
[40]
[41]
[42] and more. You know it's really not about people "hating" on DR. It's simply an encyclopedia and people placing in factual information. This site is huge though and there are more places to work on!
YoSoyGuapo 01:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
The History channel had a program about Doc. done test on PR and DR and found that the average person has Taino blood, and don't matter that not the point. Why do we have two tittle about the same thing. The fact of the matter there no system in the gov't issue document that says race. I never said "hating on DR" im only putting my point as everyone has done, that what make this a great encyclopedia. Now back to the point why do we have two section talking about the same thing w/ different tittle ? AvFnx 03:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't speaking about you when I spoke about hating on DR. I was speaking about when debate has come up in the past, people start to state that they are hating on DR. [43] . Just to clarify things for you. The Taino's were a part of the Arawak nation and were in conflict with the Carib tribes. [44] It is true that Taino's existed [45] and continue to exist in PR http://www.taino-tribe.org/diplo.htm [46] accounting for 1% of the population [47] [48] while being recognized by the US government [49] . Even if they were subject to near extermination. [50] Now you stated that the average person in DR has taino blood I would like for you to please find that article. Because I have found articles that support that PR's have taino blood via DNA study, but Dominican's have blood that traces from Florida or the Yucaton (mexico) [51] page 9 In Cuba indians did survive [52] The native population in Hispanola, within 20 years they were down to 5% of the original population [53] and was eventually (2/3 of which is DR) was exterminated [54] http[://www.dominican-rep.com/history.html] [55] [56] [57].
In terms of the government racism. [58] page 8In DR it did exist. Even if there is no clear racial divide. [59] This was called antihaitianismo. Today identity cards won't be issues to those of black origin. http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=37018 Even if they are born in DR, which goes against the Dominican constitution. I do agree that the sections are similiar, perhaps it would be better to differentiate them. YoSoyGuapo 15:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Other thing how come everyone seem to talk about the 1930s, a time when Dominican were getting kill too. No one talks about the 1800s what happen in Mao and Santiago...and also the trails of Blood in 1844. Every country has it good and bad, why focus only the negative...never said let whitewash history but let not get stuck only one thing. DR has over 500 years since the Europeans hit land, and all i read here is how Dominican are anti this, they don't know there own History. Back to the real point why do we have 2 section talking about the same thing? can anyone give me a answer? Why don't we take a vote on it, let see how many people actually want them to stay. AvFnx 20:12, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
So no objection to the removal of this two section? AvFnx 05:51, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Consensus then? -- Flor Silvestre 13:17, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
What really is bad hair? Does having hair that is curly considered to be bad hair? There is a huge issue of race in Dominican Republic that it is a big deal that is why there is so many versions of color. I know you think that there isn't a lot of compromise going on, but all that is asked for is references. I can easily put in over 100 articles that state Taino's died out within 100 years of Spanish colonization. If you can find articles that state they didn't I'm more than open to hear them as is everyone else. I asked for sources before and was willing to hear sources that are availble.
[60] . I guess in DR they may not have a strong understanding of race that may exist in America or Europe. Dominican Republic is a nation. If you asked someone's nationality they would say Dominican.
Race is very different. There are classifications including
White,
Black,
Hispanic,
Asian. Within white you'll see non-hispanic and within black you'll see non-hispanic. Hispanic is more of a linguistic group within a racial catagory. I would guess that a Dominican should say hispanic as being their race, not Dominican. This though would take away from those who are Brazilian. What is their race? It's a confusing subject, but one thing I do agree is that the two sections should be merged. Any volunteers?
YoSoyGuapo 15:06, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
As one of the editors that did a lot of work to clean up the self-identification section, I really think it is a detriment to the article to have two sections discussing the same topic (IE the "Racial Identity" section and the "Self-Identification" section). Of the two, I believe more work has been done to make the self-identification section NPoV and present positive images regarding the Dominican notion of skin color rather than just going off on a rant about how Dominicans are prejudiced against Haitians.-- Rosicrucian Talk 20:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Here is an article based on a documentary that I believe many here would find very interesting.
http://www.primicias.com.do/articulo,5408,html http://groups.google.co.kr/group/soc.culture.dominican-rep/msg/701ed165f9b67026 http://www.tonyconelpueblo.tv/noticias.php?topic=Internacional&id=75
in english
I am in no way saying i support this view, but it made a few good points. I think we should all take a look at this.
YoSoyGuapo 19:49, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
On todays headline the Nazi Party roots could be trace to the Dominican Republic, that next thing I guess. Wait didn't DR declare war on Germany and took in Jews which no other country did shhhhhhh the truth can't be told. AvFnx 21:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
this is actually 4 articles . I simply saw something that was very interesting and posted it and asked for an opinion. I didn't post it in the article at all. Duarte could be mulatto and dislike blacks. Trujillo was 1/4 haitian and killed haitians. Hitler was 1/4 jewish and killed jews.
"Trujillo introduced various national development measures during his rule and gained some international attention during the 1930s for allowing European Jews to migrate to the Dominican Republic. His decision was not motivated by genuine concern for the plight of Jewish refugees, however. Trujillo shared many of Hitler’s racialist views, but believed that the immigration of European Jews would “whiten” the Dominican Republic. It was on this basis that he allowed Spanish Republican refugees to settle in the country as well." [
[61]]
by the way there was a movie made about trujillo
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0428532/plotsummary
I guess there may have been a lot of recruitment to cause trouble on this article .. "09-30-2007, 12:55 AM "asopao Silver Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 301
The Haitian moderator that jickacked the Wikipedia article on DR placed that same thing that this stupid bee itch is saying. That Duarte was " a racist and Trinitaria inspired the KKK".
After long protests by Dominicans, some other moderator ( Puerto Rican, I think), took it off. But still, the Article is still very biased and " Haiti-centric". "
http://www.dr1.com/forums/general-stuff/67104-taina-mirabal-2.html
for your comment " here a thought why haven't the Haitian Government came out in defense of it people if there treat so bad, why the Hati government actually defends the DR." There isn't a haitian military in existance at all. There hasn't been one for years. YoSoyGuapo 21:49, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
DR was very unsuccessful with "invaders." Remember the US occupation? The United States gives a lot more money to Haiti than DR does so why do you think no one helps Haiti but DR? http://portauprince.usembassy.gov/pro659_english2.html The USA has given Haiti over $492 in total aid the past few years. ok Duarte wasn't mulatto, and Sanchez was. Does that disprove the theory of the above article that Duarte may have been racist? You say that DR fought to be free and won time and time again. DR tried to sell itself to America (so it didn't always want to be free) and it lost against US "occupation" twice. So it didn't win time and time again. YoSoyGuapo 02:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Hermano, The second wasn't meant to be a victory. At the time the US was about maintaining political policies. It helped to overthrow one leader so that another would get elected. That is what happened. Dominican's leave DR to go to the USA. Haitians leave Haiti to go to DR. If that trend continues than DR will be left with more Haitians than Dominicans in DR. Even you left Hermano! There is no need for the US to be in DR. There is a US citizen who is president in DR. Leonel Fernandez es Americano mi hermano. More money comes back from American Dominicanos to DR than DR makes on it's own. It's the same deal with Mexico. Mexicans in the US send money back to Mexico and now it is a major source of income for Mexico. It's called Remitences. Pero, tu necessita comprender the bigger picture. YoSoyGuapo 03:28, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Just reach an agreement. It's really not that serious. All this arguing isn't making the article better! Also http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900sid/ACIO-6CHKYP?OpenDocument there was ethnic cleansing. UnclePaco 22:29, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
The info on Antihaitianismo should remain in the article. It is only mentioned briefly but is a legitimate issue and is properly sourced.-- Alabamaboy 01:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
can you tell me why is DR having so call "issue" got do with Haiti. I every in Dominican got do with Haiti, and i showen that antiHaitiano article is not properly sourced. AvFnx 18:22, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
"ok Duarte wasn't mulatto, and Sanchez was. Does that disprove the theory of the above article that Duarte may have been racist?"
YoSoyGuapo, if Duarte was indeed a racist then why does he have mulatoes (and presumably blacks as well) in his organization, especially so high up the ranks? Because he was secretly planning on deposing them later on? The fact of the matter is that the burden of proof for the above statement lies on YOU and unless you or someone else provides any evidence or verifiable source that supports it, I would really appreciate it if you would stop injecting this kind of "push-poll" nonsense in this discussion. I would tell Taína Mirabal the same thing really if she were present in this conversation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.76.82.90 ( talk) 15:24, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
On another note, I support Avfnx's point on Dominicans' self identification. When you ask the typical dominican "what are you?" he/she will reply "I am dominican". If you ask them what race they are, they will reply the same. It's not because they don't understand the concept of race, it's that we just don't care about race per se. Like others have said, there is skin color and then there is race. We worry about skin color but not before worrying about nationality. I am not going to pretend this particular mindset of ours is A-OK, but calling us something we are not is something I find particularly revolting. Llorllale ( talk) 15:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
From looking at this
Llorllale, (
talk) and
BigGabrial555 are the same person.
Llorllale only contributions are very
meatpuppet in nature. I for one support the inclusion of this self identification portion of the article.
199.219.144.51 (
talk) 13:49, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Sir, I am no meatpuppet of anyone. I've had this account for... I'm not sure how long really, but it must be at least a year old, I just haven't used it at all really. I've been prompted to use it now because this is my country we're talking about.
But then again, the irony of that accusation lies at its source. Llorllale ( talk) 17:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I for one think that Racial identity issues and Self-identification be merged into one section, not sure on what its title should be. There is simply too much redundancy, considering they're talking about the same thing. Llorllale ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 17:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
And to illuminate why we originally settled on "Self-Identification" as the section title, the consensus chose it for the following reasons:
So ultimately when we were discussing this, it was considered a good neutral title that reflected what this is: simple self-identification that reflects a difference in Dominican culture as opposed to say the United States, where many mulattoes self-identify as "black" due to the more prominent African identity movements in the country.-- Rosicrucian Talk 17:25, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Aye Caramba! Can you show me where it says that it is no longer the valid? The reference is current and historically valid. Looking back a couple of months there were 2 sections. An edit war came about and it became one. An administrator brought back the second section. Where was the conensus? I for one agree on two sections and see them both as being different and both valid. A few other editors do as well. Self identification and racial indentification are two very different things. In a nation that has had issues with genocide based on race and a racial policy based on self identification it is very important. CubanoDios ( talk) 17:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Where is this agreement? Find it for me. There are plenty of whites in Cuba. You should go there! Race is a product of skin color. Why don't you help contribute to this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_Usage_Amongst_Dominican_Athletes CubanoDios ( talk) 18:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Cubans are the best athletes in the world! We play all sports! Look at basketball, baseball, weight lifting, track, and others! Dominican baseball players are Haitian and the ones who aren't on are on steroids! There are so many articles about it! Look at Sammy Sosa or Tito Ortiz! They are moreno! Wait till Cuba and the US have relations again and Cuba will once again be the Pearl of the Antilles! All tourism will go back to Cuba! CubanoDios ( talk) 18:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
This is the place to discuss it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_Usage_Amongst_Dominican_Athletes . Just scroll up and follow the conversation. There is no need for personal attacks with the "anyone with half a brain statement" wikipedia has a policy against that.
CubanoDios (
talk) 01:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Consensus Please locate to me where the agreement was made??
CubanoDios (
talk) 01:40, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Dualldual ( talk) 02:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC) "According to the CIA World Fact Book, the ethnic composition of the Dominican population is, 73% Mixed, 16% White and 11% Black.[2] The mixed population is mostly mulatto with some people indirectly descended from the indigenous Taino.[56][11] Other ethnic groups in the Dominican Republic include Haitians, Germans, Italians, French, Jews, Spaniards, and Americans. A smaller presence of East Asians (primarily ethnic Chinese and Japanese) and Middle Easterners (primarily Lebanese) can be found throughout the population"
I've stayed away from this page for a while because it was filled with people who did not want to hear anything different than their views and had no facts to support it but here goes.
http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/multimedia/vid5.html http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part2/index.html
I think we should try to show Dominicans race from a descriptive rather than a culturally biased view. "A walk down city streets shows a country where blacks and dark-skinned people vastly outnumber whites, and most estimates say that 90 percent of Dominicans are black or of mixed race. Yet census figures say only 11 percent of the country's nine million people are black."
"To many Dominicans, to be black is to be Haitian. So dark-skinned Dominicans tend to describe themselves as any of the dozen or so racial categories that date back hundreds of years -- Indian, burned Indian, dirty Indian, washed Indian, dark Indian, cinnamon, moreno or mulatto, but rarely negro." This would explain why non-dominican figures in english do not appropirately represent the population. Many people who are clearly of African descent describe themselves as non-black because black=haitian in dominican. Thus looking at a census a foreigner says negro=black and indian=native/taino but defintely not black However "Using the word Indian to describe dark-skinned people is an attempt to distance Dominicans from any African roots, Albert and other experts said. She noted that it's not even historically accurate: The country's Taino Indians were virtually annihilated in the 1500s, shortly after Spanish colonizers arrived." This seems to be in line with other carribean countries that were taken over by spain and had taino populations. Ie. Jamaica, there are not much Inidans there today.
"Dictator Rafael Trujillo, who ruled from 1930 to 1961, strongly promoted anti-Haitian sentiments, and is blamed for creating the many racial categories that avoided the use of the word "black." "Many black Dominicans here say they never knew they were black -- until they visited the United States."
There seems to be a clear history of how Dominican got to where it is. Ps. Trujillo was considered to be a mulatto by the CIA but from my understanding came from a background where both his parents were of mixed race.