This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Digital cinema article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is about the use of digital technology to deliver and project movies, not its use in recording them. To discuss that, please go to Talk:Digital cinematography. |
![]() | Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
I have submitted a section under history of digital cinema based on the request for verifiable information. Feeback is welcome.
Also, I have cleaned up distribution. Because this is still very hotly debated I recommend maintaining informative rather than 'position' statements. Feedback is welcome.
Perhaps is would be best to split Digital Cinema into "Digital Filmmaking," the process of producing film via digital techniques, and Digital Cinema, a method of distributing and presenting motion pictures.
This would be best because movies shot on film may be distributed digitally, while films made digitally (including Star Wars Episode III, Sin City, etc.) have been primarily distributed through film prints. In fact, even if digital projectors become the standard many filmmakers like the look of film and will source material on film for digital projection. 216.64.26.114 11:44, August 26, 2005 (PST)
I have added the fact that the lack of exposure latitude can be handled and mitigated through techniques used with reversal film stocks which also have the problem. Please reword my adjustments as I am not a good technical writer. 66.32.95.85 12:07, August 25, 2005 (PST)
However, I think this article needs more information on hybrid motion picture production: More information about mixed media filming (both HD and film), and more important, filming on film stocks but completing the post in digital. 66.32.95.85 12:07, August 25, 2005 (PST)
I have a concern about this passage:
"Film is in many ways more portable than its high quality digital counterparts. The chemical process initiated by exposing film to light give reliable results, that are well documented and understood by cinematographers. In contrast every digital camera has a unique response to light and it is very difficult to predict without viewing the results on a monitor or a waveform analyser, increasing the complexity of lighting. However, accurate calibration techniques are being developed which eliminate this as a practical problem, and the possibility of inexpensive post-production color grading can make digital cinematography more flexible than film in achieving artistic color effects."
It seems to be biased to the point that film is better than video. Each is its own medium. While "[t]he chemical process initiated by exposing film to light give reliable results, that are well documented and understood by cinematographers," is true, it is because most cinematographers have little practical experience with video. If a pro videographer were to suddenly try shooting film I'd expects bad results as well. "In contrast every digital camera has a unique response to light," is true, but every different film stock has a different response to color, illumination, shadow, etc. Once a DP knows the digital camera it should be more of a task to get what you want. In fact, a camera like the Sony F-900 has a very predictable response to these conditions, like film, but has an advantage that the response can be tailored. Perhaps the difference in thought is that the visual nuances of film are dure more to the media, while in video it is due to the camera more. Also, the line "without viewing the results on a monitor or a waveform analyser, increasing the complexity of lighting," is fallacious. In fact my DP can get amazing shots on his F-900 without anything but his light meter and camera. And our interior shots were FAR EASIER to shoot than with film, allowing use to light a scene beautifully with about half the equipment and time invested. 66.32.95.85 12:07, August 25, 2005 (PST)
Digital projection will only be good when 4 K is the norm. 2K digital is like a Xerox copy of film, not quite up to snuff. For the forseeable future, films will be shot on film, and composited with digital DI technology if the effects demand it. On non-effects driven films, film will continue for production, and 2K digital will take over for all the cheaper theaters, to run them after about 2012. The better grade of theaters will run either bigger 6 perf. film or 4K digital to get a superior look, especially with 3D in the mix.
HD in the home with raise the ante, so that theater display will have to be superior to present or the admission prices will have to be cut by at least 40% to literally save the theaters in the digital age. —the preceding unsigned comment is by Nativeborncal ( talk • contribs) 21:05, December 25, 2005
Davidlooser ( talk) 19:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Regarding bias: The use of broadly perjerative terms is troubling. For instance, "stillborn digital revolution" and "at this point, no movie directors are seriously using HD cameras to make theatrical films." Huh? What about Spike Lee, Steven Soderberg, Michael Mann, David Fincher, George Lucas, Bryan Singer, James Cameron, Lars von Trier, and Robert Rodriguez? One failure like "Shark Boy" does not a "stillborn" digital revolution make.
(The author's petulant response to the post alleging bias doesn't help his argument against his bias: denigrating phrases like "weird culture," "adolescent fantasy," "wishful thinking" and "loudmouth dreamer?" Whew! Let's talk rationally here. I doubt the many millions of dollars being invested by films studios, filmmakers and technology companies into evolving video into worthy competition for film involve wishful thinking, unless they're financially incompetent.)
Conversely, some of the ADVANTAGES of digital cinema could also be taken issue with as stated. The "digital cinematography" W-entry claims that the digital format actually does not, in the overall, save money in production, and cites concrete reasons. Which one is right? Which claim about digital cameras' superiority in low-light situations is accurate?
These two articles have been suggested for merger. I suggest a review of the facts and general attitude beforehand. —the preceding unsigned comment is by 65.42.107.58 ( talk • contribs) 12:31, December 29, 2005
"There are certain laws of Quantum Mechanics that would need to be repealed before a video camera could ever equal the performance of a film camera. Electronic sensors haven't gotten all that much better over the last ten years, it's more that camera manufacturers have gotten better at disguising their deficiencies!"
What utter rubbish! What laws of Quantum Mechanics? Show us please this verifiable scientific data. That digital cinematography could equal film, in terms of resolution, dynamic range, latitude, and DOF eventually I would say is undeniable and self-evident and is only a matter of pixel count, bit depth, quantization and the physical dimensions of the imaging device. Furthermore, although 35mm film is often quoted to have an equivalent pixel resolution of somewhere between 4-6k, in its original NEGATIVE form, it is also demonstrable that once a well worn release print is shown in many provincial theatres (which is quite often) then it's resolution is dramatically reduced through worn print, bad projection setup/lens and dirty impaired screen. Whilst HD skips this multi-generational degradation, the problem of dirty screens and bad projection can remain; the point is that any talk of 35mm's inherent superior resolution is subject to various qualifying conditions and is almost impossible to verify in absolute common practice.
To replicate the particular 'qualities', as seen in a modern aesthetic sense, that make 'film' look like 'film', as opposed to video, is however a matter of really accurately simulating film's many peculiar 'artifacts' such as jitter, grain, speckles and floating image registration etc. However these are strictly speaking not qualities but defects that were never intended in the first place and manufacturers of film equipment and producers have striven to minimize their effects over many years. It is only recently, since the so called digital revolution, that mostly young filmakers, striving to emulate a 'glossy Hollywood' look on video, perceive these defects to be positive qualities.
I think, on the other hand, it is highly unlikely that the average public patron will even notice the difference between 2k and 4k digital projection since they have a hard time distinguishing between 16:9 SD and HD video. —the preceding unsigned comment is by 80.58.2.44 ( talk • contribs) 11:04, January 1, 2006
You digital people are amazing! You say that digital will replace film. You talk of this utiopia where digital cinema produces better quality images. When we point out flaws in your argument (flaws we can prove), you jump up and down and say we are applying an unfair standard to digital. Right now, film is undenyably a better quality image than digital. All studies prove this. Many DPs have said digital will not have the same look as film. How an audience will respond (and which one they will embrace) is yet to be seen.
The complaints for digital are fair game. Name me one digital film that is on par with Battleship Potemkin or Citizen Kane in cinematic art. Sin City? Revenge of the Sith? Maybe Sharkboy and Lavagirl? If you give me this stupid "you're just being subjective", I swear I will break something!!! Film only advanced by critism. You have to be able to prove digital will be able to create artistic masterpieces like Potemkin or Kane in order for us "film snobs" to take you seriously. —the preceding unsigned comment is by 71.139.61.28 ( talk • contribs) 22:53, January 5, 2006 (PST)
This article is currently a mixture of useful information and material that ranges from mistaken to nonsensical. This article desperately needs contributions from experts. -- Karada 22:04, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
I have made the statement that Ben-Hur's and Lawrence of Arabia's entire production budgets cost less than the amount of money spent on Superman Returns's CGI effects.
Superman Returns spends $100 million on special effects:
http://www.cinematical.com/2005/10/31/superman-returns-hits-250-million-picks-up-investor/
According to IMDB the production budgets for the major epics are:
Ben-Hur = $15,000,000
Lawrence of Arabia = $15,000,000
Adjusted for inflation (according to http://www.westegg.com/inflation) are:
Ben-Hur = $95,811,724.46
Lawrence of Arabia = $92,628,161.25
I will be the first to admit there is not much of a difference between $100 million and $95 million. However, this is a tremendous factor when we are talking about JUST THE SPECIAL EFFECTS!!! Also, Superman Returns was shot on digital. Where was the cost effectiveness there? They saved $2 million to spend over $200 million. This is before they spend well in to the nine figures promoting and distributing the film. Is this the final word in the arguement? No. But it should be considered when stating digital is more cost effective than film. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.139.33.98 ( talk • contribs) 04:15, 16 February 2006.
The person who posted the paragraph entitled 'Criticism' appears to be citing facts that have no actual relevance to the debate about the merits of digital filmmaking. He states that the cost of film production has risen incredibly, which is true, but what does that have to do with digital video which has been a valid format since Spike Lee's 'Bamboozled' which was released in October, 2000 -a little over five years ago? Since then only a few features have been filmed on digital video, and all of those would have cost much, much more if they were shot on PanaVision 35mm, or a comporable format. The writer then seems to oddly cite that because special effects, CGI in particular, are still high cost, that somehow that means any savings from the feature being shot in digital video are negated due to the CGI (!?) The same feature would still have those CGI effects on top of the already high costs involved with film. It just seems to be an illogical connect the dots, that makes zero sense!
What really baffles me to know end is when someone stupidly makes a comment like "The complaints for digital are fair game. Name me one digital film that is on par with Battleship Potemkin or Citizen Kane in cinematic art. Sin City? Revenge of the Sith? Maybe Sharkboy and Lavagirl? If you give me this stupid "you're just being subjective" b#llsh*t, I swear I will break something!!! Film only advanced by critism. You have to be able to prove digital will be able to create artistic masterpieces like Potemkin or Kane in order for us "film snobs" to take you seriously. Otherwise, shut up!!!" Ummm! Ok??? (scratches head!) You can make any film with digital video! Are you saying 'Citizen Kane' could not have been made on digital video, had the technology been available?? "Name me one digital film on par with 'Citizen Kane' HUH??????? What does that have to with anything at all? Creative minds create using the tools! The tools themselves do not create the film. The camera does not prohibit creativity, nor does it ensure it! This person seems to have a severe mental impediment, and I don't mean that as an insult. His comments seem to lack any real logic. Orson Welles could have made 'Citizen Kane' using HD DV, the script could have been developed on 'Final Draft' and edited digitally on a G5. It would still be the same film. You are not a 'Film snob' you an illogical, none too bright, quasi-luddite! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.34.179.235 ( talk • contribs) .
Some of the above comments are rather absurd, but also rather lacking in... detail.
Let's do some quick math for fun. Say we're shooting a two-hour feature film, with a comfy 8:1 shooting ratio (for every 8 feet of film we expose, 1 foot ends up screen). That's 3600*2*8 = 57,600 seconds, at 18 inches per second (24fps, 4-perf = 0.75in), comes out to 86,400 feet of film. A quick check of FotoKem's web site doesn't show a price list, but a little Googling turns up a price list for their services to the USC cinema school [3] which should give us a decent start. $0.10/ft for basic negative, another $0.20/ft for one-strike dailies... that's $25,920 to develop all our film and give us a complete set of daily prints to go over in preparation for picking what to edit with.
A little more Googling, here's some company selling filmstock [4]; a 1000-foot reel of, say, the 250D costs $705.64; so let's say $60,967.30 to buy all the film negative in the first place.
Even if we give a huge amount of wiggle room on these figures, we're looking at something on the order of $100,000 for a huge amount of film. Double it and we're still looking at a measly $200,000. Now, compare this to the costs of talent, labor, insurance, location fees, set construction, equipment rental, electrical, post, etc etc. These things add up, especially with the big names... ten million dollars, thirty million, a hundred million, two hundred million?
Now, if you're a no-budget amateur production, sure, that film cost is big, and since it's consumable you can't borrow it from a buddy for free. Going digital can be a big budget-saver for a small production. It can also be really convenient if you're a big-budget CGI-fest, as you can skip film scanning. But the cost of film over tape doesn't seem likely to cause a significant production to decide to run fewer takes; the cost of labor is going to be a much bigger factor.
Disclaimer: just an ex-film student, not a real producer. :) -- Brion 08:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
The reason for the few more takes is the cost but rather editing equiptment. Before, with either a Movieola or flatbed, you had to actually cut the film. This took a long time and people tried to reduce editing time by taking less shots. Now, with digital editing equiptment, it takes less time to edit so people shoot more. An example: the movie Con Air shot over one million feet of film. They then hired 8 editors to cut the movie.
This is a problem the DGA addressed. People no longer have to map everything out. You shoot first and ask questions later.
I posted some warnings at the top of this talk page, hopefully to curb the abuse. From WP:CIV
![]() | This page in a nutshell: Being rude, insensitive or petty makes people upset and stops Wikipedia working well. Try to discourage others from being incivil, and be careful to avoid offending people unintentionally. Mediation is available if needed. |
— Wikibarista 15:34, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Ok this is likely going to cause some controversy :D I would, however, like to see some discussion on the quality of digital projection.
Here's what NATO (National association of theatre owners) says: C) High Quality Levels Capable of Exceeding both Film and the Home Digital cinema is capable of achieving quality levels that exceed that of duplicated film, and capable of significantly exceeding that of the home. Image quality is associated with (generally in this order): Color space, Contrast, Resolution. Many have been impressed with the current TI 2K projector. This technology comes close to matching the color space of film, and well exceeds the color space of conventional HDTV. Its contrast is not yet that of film, but has improved significantly over the years. In comparison to the home, it well exceeds that of conventional NTSC television, although this comparison may be less favorable as consumers switch to new high-contrast digital HDTV sets. Resolution, however, is the one number that commands popular focus, and is easiest to market to consumers. In its studies, the ITU demonstrated that duplicated 35mm film has less resolution than HDTV (HDTV has an image resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels). However, to differentiate the lower range of digital cinema from the consumer image format, DCI has specified a low end “2K” resolution maximizing at 2048 vertical lines by 1080 horizontal lines. An “upper-end” 4K resolution is also specified, maximizing at 4096 vertical lines by 2160 horizontal lines. While 2048x1080 is only slightly larger than the consumer HD 1920x1080 format, the 4K 4096x2160 format offers 4 times the number of pixels found in consumer HDTV. While 4K is the goal, the technology today is only proven for 2K. Sony is demonstrating a 4K projector at trade shows, but the demonstration has yet to match the color space or contrast of the TI projector, making the Sony projector an under-performer visually. The Sony projector has yet to be tested in a busy, metropolitan cinema that operates many shows daily. Even if a 4K projector were available, it would need a 4K server. As of this writing, no vendor has a 4K server on the market, or even in demonstration. Sony, notably, uses 4 servers to drive one projector in its trade show demonstrations. 4K technology is likely to be many years away from achieving theatre-level performance and operation. To insure single-inventory content in a 2K / 4K world, DCI specified a standard compression technology capable of handling both sets of image resolutions in one data file. Using JPEG2000, a compliant server can play a 4K image to a 2K projector by extracting the 2K version of the image from the 4K image file. The specification of JPEG2000 and the specific application of it for single-inventory content distribution was a significant milestone in the DCI process.
-Tying it with economics: A big part of digital cinema specifications is ensuring that the quality stays above that of home theatre, which is a competing market. Hence instead of adopting the 1920X1280 frame size of HD, d-cinema is going with 2K instead.
Glennchan 01:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Since the Digital Rev has started, is it appropriate to start a category of theaters using digital projection technologies?
While earlier presentations have been recorded, it should be noted that the popular introduction of digital cinema to the public was on June 18, 1999 with the digital premiere of George Lucas's "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace." The movie was shown in four digital theatres in the US, two on the West Coast and two on the East Coast. These were Loew's Meadow 6 Theater in Secaucus, NJ, Loew's Route 4 Theater in Paramus, NJ, Pacific Theatre's Winnetka-21 in Chatsworth, CA and the AMC-14 theatre in Burbank, CA. Two different projectors were used, one on each coast: a prototype DLP-Cinema projector and a JVC ILA-12K projector. These projectors were driven by Pluto servers storing the movie in a lightly compressed format. Karagosian 05:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I would like to propose the introduction of the Doremi Labs DCP2000 as a "significant event" in digital cinema. The DCP2000 was the first released server based on the evolving DCI specification. Its introduction put pressure on all other players in the market and in part ensured that the DCI spec would become a meaningful specification. The DCP2000 has retained the highest rate of installations, for almost 5 years, leading to a current installation base of over 14,000 units world wide.
Quvis should also be mentioned in the article as this was the most significant pre DCI digital server in use —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.65.70.178 ( talk) 00:04, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
When will we see 4K monitors go on sale for the consumer market? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.67.35.112 ( talk) 03:43, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
What is the typical height of 2K video? I'm very confused. Both RED Camera Systems and this website seem to show 2K at a height of 1152—the way it looks here: Image:Digital_cinema_formats.svg. Then this article describes projection at a height of 1080—same with this image Image:UHDV.svg. Photoshop CS3's built in presets for 2K (and 4K) are also different from the aformentioned. Anyone have any insight? Is it likely a pixel aspect ratio issue? TIM KLOSKE| TALK 01:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Here is an article in the Wall Street Journal that can be worked into the article:
I would really like more on the method of projection in this wiki. It is my understanding that the projectors use a strong light that passes through transmissive LCD panels. Are there different panels for each primary color (R,G,B)? Is it one panel? You get the idea.
I came to the article looking for an understanding of the actual mechanics of the projection room, that is, how they differ from a normal film projector, and did not find anything concrete. The link to "Digital projector" was not too helpful either. In an ordinary "analogue" movie house the film is run through a device which directs intense light through the medium to project an image against a screen. What is going on in an actual projection room of a digital cinema? Orthotox ( talk) 19:41, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
Copied from a comment [5] on my talk page:
-- Ronz ( talk) 15:35, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
One piece of information I am looking for which is not in this article: what is the typical cost, to the movie theater, to buy a "digital print", that is to say, rent the digital file to load into the digital projector? I was briefly a movie projectionist, in 2005. I learned that the cost to the theater for one 20 minute roll of analog film is $6,000 (US dollars). So, for a 10 reel movie, like Alexander, the cost to the movie theater is $60,000 per copy of the movie. Does anybody have ballpark figures for the digital equivalent, and can put those figures in the article? 68.186.59.182 ( talk) 03:56, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be misunderstanding here about the way that exhibitors are charged for the movies they screen. The charge is per movie, not per reel, and it is based on a percentage of the box-office income that the exhibitor earns from showing that movie. The percentage charged varies from movie to movie and also on how much time has passed from that movie's release to the start of the booking. DCPs (Digital "prints") are charged in exactly the same way and at exactly the same rates, ie. for a given title and time since release the same percentage is charged for a 35 mm print or a DCP.
However when a movie is taken as a DCP rather than a film print a fee known as a "Virtual Print Fee" (VPF) is paid by the distributor either to the exhibitor, or commonly to a third party organisation (called an integrator) who funded the installation of the digital projector. The amount of the VPF is determined per booking rather than being based on the box-office receipts earned. The amount of the VPF will be small compared to the rental fee but in most cases will be sufficient to pay-off the cost of the digital projector over a period typically of 5-10 years.
Davidlooser ( talk) 09:24, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
There are several references to "VPF", but no clear explanation of what exactly this is, or even what the acronym stands for. Apparently, in the Virtual Print Fee business model the distributor pays a third party to install digital cinema equipment in a theater. The theater pays the distributor the full price for each "print", and the distributor uses the money they save (since digital distribution is so much cheaper than traditional film prints) to pay the third party which provided the digital cinema equipment. Any experts willing to add something like this to the article?
I'm not familiar with Digital Cinema myself, but here some possible references:
""Multipurpose", and cameras capable of recording 5K, such as the RED EPIC" The red epic can't record in 5K - it captures STILLS in 5K. From RED.com "With the innate ability to capture 5K REDCODE RAW stills and 4K motion" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joffboff ( talk • contribs) 09:27, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
The article is about digital cinema. If there is a close enough relation between HD TV and digital cinema to warrant the presence of the block, that relation should be elaborated in the article. Dick Grune ( talk) 21:33, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi
there seem to be much more discussion going on here than on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Digital_Cinema_Package, so I'd like to draw the attention of the community to my suggestion Talk:Digital_Cinema_Package#additional_resources to add two resources. Because I authored both resources I suggest and because I'm a new contributor, it might look as spam. I hope it won't because the resources are neutral and interesting, and because I won't be doing the edit myself ! cheers — Preceding unsigned comment added by Charbonstudio ( talk • contribs) 07:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Digital cinema. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 23:46, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Digital cinema. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:39, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
Under cons we have:"Digital cinemas' efficiency of storing images has a downside. The speed and ease of modern digital editing processes threatens to give editors and their directors, if not an embarrassment of choice then at least a confusion of options, potentially making the editing process, with this 'try it and see' philosophy, lengthier rather than shorter.[40]:63 Because the equipment needed to produce digital feature films can be obtained more easily than celluloid, producers could inundate the market with cheap productions and potentially dominate the efforts of serious directors. Because of the quick speed in which they are filmed, these stories sometimes lack essential narrative structure."[40]:66–67 This doesn't belong anywhere in this article. Longinus876 ( talk) 13:03, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:59, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
What is the reason for the creation of a redirect from "6K" to this lemma? -- Angerdan ( talk) 23:43, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2022 and 16 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Queenones87 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Jnolan27 ( talk) 00:06, 28 November 2022 (UTC)