This article was nominated for
deletion on 20 September 2020. The result of
the discussion was speedy keep.
A fact from Death and state funeral of Ruth Bader Ginsburg appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 December 2020 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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I disagree with adding back in "upended the political environment in the United States" to the lede at this time. Even if the claim is sourced this is an editorial claim with absolutely no evidence to back it up. There are no polls that show a change in the dynamics of the 2020 presidential race and the increase in fundraising reported by ActBlue is not any indication of an "upended" race. As we get a better picture of the political ramifications of the death of the Justice, that can be in the lede, but at at this time, there is nothing to indicate the statement is correct, see
WP:CRYSTAL. --
Enos733 (
talk) 19:31, 20 September 2020 (UTC)reply
I have removed the material. Editors who support inclusion of the line must gain consensus per
WP:ONUS. If it is re-included in the article, it will need many more sources.
KidAdtalk 19:37, 20 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Fine by me. Feel free to write the lead. I have never been good at writing lead sections. ---
C&
C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:56, 20 September 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree that the lede is too short. But the line I removed was problematic.
KidAdtalk 20:00, 20 September 2020 (UTC)reply
I do not think so. The statement was about the "political environment", not actual ramifications. Of course, we do not know the ramifications, but we do know the political discourse has completely changed. ---
C&
C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 20:10, 20 September 2020 (UTC)reply
I disagree that the political discourse has completely changed within the span of a weekend.
KidAdtalk 20:23, 20 September 2020 (UTC)reply
I removed it per the comments above. I think it would be better if we used prose to describe some examples of notable vigils such as Chicago and San Franscisco that had several hundred attendees. ---
C&
C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 14:16, 21 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Coffeeandcrumbs, Do you mind being more specific about which comments above prompted you to remove the list of cities? ---
Another Believer(
Talk) 19:03, 21 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Feel free to restore it. I have given up on this article. It is too stressful to work on an article while people are talking about merging and condensing the material. ---
C&
C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:08, 21 September 2020 (UTC)reply
I see that
Another Believer has already re-included the list. There has been no consensus formed on this, nor any substantive discussion on the topic. The material still amounts to
WP:TRIVIA and
WP:IINFO. I suggest that the information be removed and stay removed until more editors contribute to the discussion.
KidAdtalk 19:18, 21 September 2020 (UTC)reply
KidAd, I'm fine discussing further, but I asked the editor who remove the text and they said I could restore, so please don't suggest I've done wrong here. Happy for others to weigh in or make article changes. ---
Another Believer(
Talk) 19:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Apologies if there was a miscommunication. Your re-inclusion of the material was made in good faith. I only think it was a bit preemptive.
KidAdtalk 19:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC)reply
While I appreciate the hard work invested into this list, I do not believe it should be included in this article. I agree with Bagumba and KidAd's logic that it seems like
WP:TRIVIA.
Some of everything (
talk) 20:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)reply
How would everyone feel about converting the list to prose? Not every city must be listed, but some major ones could be in an additional summative paragraph. If so, I will include a section template from
Template:Prose.
KidAdtalk 21:04, 21 September 2020 (UTC)reply
KidAd, I would like to see the list converted into prose in some form. Some of these vigils were attended by hundreds and/or had notable speakers. We can also group some of the less important vigils, such as "California saw vigils in W, X, Y, and Z" or "Xperson, Yperson, and Zperon spoke at vigils in Xcity, Ycity, and Zcity, respectively", etc. I agree we don't need to mention every single city but I think there's a way to do this which gives a bit more detail without using bullets or reducing this to mention of just 3 or 4 specific cities based on attendance. ---
Another Believer(
Talk) 21:15, 21 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Also be wary of
WP:EXAMPLEFARM. Listing cities most readers have never heard doesnt help understand her impact.—
Bagumba (
talk) 02:15, 22 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Comment I agree that any discussion should be in prose form, but also that only when there is something notable about the city-specific memorial or only mention the number and explain the events using one or two examples.--
Enos733 (
talk) 05:10, 22 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Not needed. It's excessive (obsessive) trivia. See
WP:ONUS and
WP:NOTEVERYTHING. Encyclopedias are not scrap-books or showcases to be stuffed with every conceivable iota of verifiable information, no matter one's opinion of the subject. Speaking as someone closer to RBG's side of the socio-political spectrum, it comes across as pure fluff.
--Animalparty! (
talk) 00:38, 24 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Hello, if this article is to be explaining the death of this person then i expect facts. Like Was the honourble at home or at the hospital. "friday way was her treatment-day so she used to weekend to recover" is one of the reporter comments on television. so. did the honourable die before the weekly treathment or after?
thats wath probably should be mentioned. And that trump has a nomine WITH IN 24 hours? is that part of the honourble her death? Chris
85.149.83.125 (
talk) 13:47, 22 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Chris, use spellcheck. I had to reread this several times. For the people who don't want to do that, here's the comment with good grammar and spelling - Hello. If this article is meant to explain the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, then I expect facts. Like, was RBG at home or at the hospital when they died? "Friday was her treatment day, so she used the weekend to recover," is one of the reporter's comments on television. So, did RBG die before the weekly treatment or after? That's what probably should be mentioned. And the fact that
Donald Trump has a replacement for her WITHIN 24 HOURS? Should that be part of this article?
TL | The Legendtalk 03:03, 23 September 2020 (UTC)reply
thank you for the re-editing,chris
85.149.83.125 (
talk) 00:26, 24 September 2020 (UTC)reply
First deceased woman at the Capitol?
Can someone explain to me what Ginsberg is considered the first woman to lie in state at the Capitol? What about Rosa Parks? "in 2005, she was the first woman to lie in honor in the Capitol Rotunda, becoming the thirty-first person to receive this honor"
Seven Pandas (
talk) 15:49, 23 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Lying in state is different to lying in honor.--
Pokelova (
talk) 15:55, 23 September 2020 (UTC)reply
Oh. Never knew that. Thanks.
Seven Pandas (
talk) 17:55, 23 September 2020 (UTC)reply
npr
[1] - ". . once said she hoped her service on the Court would honor the Jewish admonition to demand justice, and she kept a verse from the Book of Deuteronomy on the wall of her chamber. . ."
thejc
[2] - ". . 'My heritage as a Jew and my occupation as a judge fit together symmetrically,' she said in a 2004 speech at the
US Holocaust Memorial Museum. 'The demand for justice runs through the entirety of Jewish history and Jewish tradition. I take pride in and draw strength from my heritage, as signs in my chambers attest: a large silver
mezuzah on my
door post, [a] gift from the
Shulamith School for Girls in Brooklyn; on three walls, in artists’ renditions of Hebrew letters, the command from Deuteronomy . .'" --
Hodgdon's secret garden (
talk) 12:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC)reply
thehill (turley)
[4] - ". . only justice to have a mezuzah affixed to her office door, and reportedly had the Jewish injunction “tzedek tirdof, or “justice shall you pursue,” woven into one of her jabots, or collars, worn on her Supreme Court robes. She studied and attended conferences on Jewish religious law. . ."
theconversation
[5] - ". . the wooden casket lying in repose at the Supreme Court and in state at the Capitol remained firmly shut. And in keeping with Jewish practice, there was no public viewing of her body and, apparently, no embalming. . . Arlington, a national and non-denominational cemetery, has no special section set aside for Jews and explicitly forbids some traditional Jewish rituals such as manually lowering the casket and filling in the grave. . ."
jta
[6] - ". . in our desire to take pride in Ginsburg’s Jewish legacy, we might have collectively crossed appropriate boundaries. There is no doubt that many of us feel a visceral connection to Ginsburg — perhaps because she was a Jew, perhaps because she was a woman who fought the good fight in a world that didn’t give her the respect she deserved for her incredible intellect and work ethic. Rather than questioning the rituals that will ultimately lay her body to rest . ." --
Hodgdon's secret garden (
talk) 15:00, 25 September 2020 (UTC)reply
A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
Jasmine Clemons of Planned Parenthood said "I made the best decision for my life, my future and my body ... " but doesn't say what her decision was. If it was an abortion, it's unclear here.
The sentence that begins, "On September 20, former U.S. President Bill Clinton, who nominated Ginsburg" is an incredibly long run-on sentence that takes up half the paragraph. Perhaps make it two sentences?
Congratulations. I noticed the nomination by accident today. And today, of all days, it seems appropriate to honor her memory with this review.
— Maile (
talk) 20:36, 3 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks, Maile! And thanks, Coffeeandcrumbs, for nominating the article and for taking care of the issues that needed to be addressed so quickly!
Nsk92 (
talk) 20:53, 3 November 2020 (UTC)reply
It's impressive to see this at GA status already. Congrats to all involved! {{u|Sdkb}}talk 23:26, 3 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
Yoninah (
talk) 18:42, 9 December 2020 (UTC)reply
Improved to Good Article status by
Coffeeandcrumbs (
talk). Self-nominated at 19:57, 7 November 2020 (UTC).reply
I'll take this on @
Coffeeandcrumbs: once the QPQ is done. But if I may say, I think the hook puts a little more focus on Taft rather than RBG. Just my opinion but I'll review it if that is what you wish nonetheless. The C of E God Save the Queen! (
talk) 20:04, 7 November 2020 (UTC)reply
I agree. I will think of something else. ---
C&
C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 21:32, 7 November 2020 (UTC)reply
I believe the term is "lie in state".
Yoninah (
talk) 20:36, 7 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Personally I'd probably have done something about her being the first woman laying in repose at SCOTUS but it's not my hook so the review is as follows. Date of GA promotion and length OK. Both hooks are cited and inline. However @
Coffeeandcrumbs:, we still need a QPQ before this can proceed. No close paraphrasing and both picture licences are fine. Ping me when the QPQ is done and I can pass it. The C of E God Save the Queen! (
talk) 07:34, 13 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Hi, I came by to promote this. I don't understand why we can't honor the nominator's wishes and just leave off the part about Taft. It will certainly make readers click on the link at least to find out who the second justice was.
The nominator chose to provide alts instead of doing that but that is their decision. No need to override the tick, it would have been better to just ask the nominator rather than using the question mark. The C of E God Save the Queen! (
talk) 20:37, 28 November 2020 (UTC)reply
@
Coffeeandcrumbs: there's a citation-needed tag at the end of the section "Health and death".
Yoninah (
talk) 21:06, 28 November 2020 (UTC)reply
Thanks. Restoring tick per The C of E's review.
Yoninah (
talk) 11:23, 29 November 2020 (UTC)reply
State funeral?
I know she was given the honour of lying in state in the Capitol, but that does not automatically make it a state funeral. A state funeral for a non-president requires a presidential proclamation, and there is no source indicating that one was ever issued by Donald Trump. And none of the mainstream news sources described Ruth Bader Ginsburg's funeral as a state funeral. If I'm not wrong, the last non-president to be honoured with a state funeral was Douglas MacArthur in 1964, and in that instance, there was a proclamation issued by President Lyndon B. Johnson granting him a state funeral.
The dog2 (
talk) 19:46, 9 September 2022 (UTC)reply