This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Does anyone else find this article over journalistic? It spends a whole paragraph talking about other things that happened on June 5th before it even starts to talk about Ronald Reagan. Can we trim this? DJ Clayworth 13:43, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I must throw in my comment that the image content of this article is far too excessive. It's not only encyclopedic, it's also wasteful of bandwidth and a nightmare for dial-up users. Linuxbeak 20:05, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)
I disagree. I like to see lots of images, and think its great for broadband users. - SV| t 20:58, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've removed sime editorialising. While I applaud the wealth of detail in this article, some of the comments stray outside the bounds of fact. Also some of the details are just a little too detailed. In the first category come sentences like "People around the world were seeing history in the making.". In the second comes a couple of lines describing who was doing the background commentary on Canadian television, in the middle of the funeral procession description. I hope this is OK. DJ Clayworth 18:59, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Much of this needs to be changed or deleted. It is clearly biased and does not take any critical position of the deificaiton of a President. ALso, it spends time discussing Michael's presentation to the RNC, but not Ron's to the DNC. CLear evidence of bias.-- Veniceslug1 03:43, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
Veniceslug1, Michael's presentation to the RNC had to be there. You mentioned that Ron's mention to the DNC wasn't there. Michael's was more important. Reagan was a Republican, not a Democrat. SNIyer12 01:32, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
The question of bias aside, it needs cutting, as so much is irrelevant. As for the photos, the White House with the flag at half mast for the Gipper looks much the same as the White House with the flag at half mast for anything else -- et cetera. -- Hoary 07:01, 2005 May 16 (UTC)
Hoary, the photo you're talking about is the scene at the White House on June 5, 2004, after news came that Reagan had died. You might want to look at the photo of the flag at the Peace Tower at half-staff for Pierre Trudeau at Death and state funeral of Pierre Trudeau -- User:SNIyer12 18:31, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
I have to question the useability of some of these images. A lot from CNN/Reuters/AP/Corbis, etc, which I believe hold all rights reserved and limit reproduction? -- tomf688( talk) 04:00, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
I just started deleting some of the photos. I referred to Death and state funeral of Pierre Trudeau as a guide for this. User:SNIyer12
I'm not too happy about the recent revert that took out all the notes I had added for the article's sources [1]. We need clear citations of the sources used in writing this article, and inline links to external websites don't provide enough information about the authors and publications details of those sources. -- MarkSweep 19:38, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
I am working on this page as part of the Cleanup Taskforce. I will probably be making changes that might upset some people, but my job is to make the page as readable and encyclopedic as possible and I appreciate everyone's patience. -- Woohookitty 22:13, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
I've got the notes pared down to 20 from 64. Before I hear complaints. :) I did 3 things. First of all, some of the attributes were not needed. For example, in several places it said that tributes were made and then it had footnotes for them. No reason to do that since the tributes themselves were not being cited. Secondly, some of the footnotes went away in general editing that I did. Thirdly, I found websites that took the place of several citations. The best example is the quotes from the eulogies. It went from 8 down to 1 citations just in that area.
In addition, I am working on ditching the narrative format, which does not belong here. We aren't a newspaper or a book. I will try to keep the article chronological but it doesn't need to be in a day by day format.
Now, SNIyer12, I suspect you are a newbie here and I try to be nice to newbies. But. :) If you want to tackle stuff like this again, I would suggest looking at similar articles first and I don't mean the Trudeau article, which you yourself did most of the work on. Just look at as many articles as you can and pay attention to the format used. One piece of advice for you is that none of us "own" these articles. In fact, you have to assume that they will be edited. So you need to not make the article so detailed that it is impossible to edit. Again, I'm not being critical. It's easy to treat Wikipedia like a research paper but that isn't what we are. And using the methods you used make the article extremely difficult to edit. This is already easily the toughest edit job I've had to do and I am only about halfway through my work.
The best piece of advice I can think of is what I just mentioned...that we don't "own" these articles. Everyone on Wikipedia owns them. If you keep that in mind, I think you'll do just fine here. I would suggest reading What Wikipedia is not if you haven't been following what I have been saying. It's a terrific guide for when you are writing articles. So...stick around...read some articles...learn how things are done...but...PLEASE...don't write an article in this style again. PLEASE. :) This is making my head hurt. LOL -- Woohookitty 09:00, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
OK I am done with the editing job. I actually had to wipe out every section heading and start over. Now, SNIyer12 (or anyone else), PLEASE don't revert my changes. I have no problem with editing my page. That's the point of Wikipedia. But please don't restore huge sections of what I took out. The page is still over the suggested limit for Wikipedia (34 K), but I couldn't find any more trimming that I could do. -- Woohookitty 01:48, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
How come there's no mention of the funeral of JFK? There should be because even though Reagan had the first state funeral since LBJ, the state funeral that is burned most deeply in memory resulted from the assassination that made LBJ president. -- SNIyer12 22:54, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It is not necessary to tell people what other events were happening that day. This is not a narrative. It is not a news report. It is an article on Ronald Reagan's death and what else happened that day has absolutely no bearing on him or his death. The only point to including that information is to "give the story context" but this isn't a "story". It's an encyclopedia article. Major difference. SNIyer12, I've told you this before and I'll tell you again. Please read the articles on here on What Wikipedia is not. It is not a newspaper. it is not a place for obits or tributes. Alot of your material here is close to the line on that anyway.-- Woohookitty 21:28, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Why is this text in the section, State funerals in the United States? Do all Presidents have these songs?
I'm in favour of cutting it all together, opinions?-- nixie 04:05, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
That was the compromise I made. The original version (by SNIyer12) was in chronological order and it listed each song that was played at each stop on the casket's journey, i.e. when it was removed from the library, was moved into the capitol building, etc. So the songs were each mentioned several times so I decided to put them all together in one section. If you want to remove it entirely, feel free. -- Woohookitty 06:19, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
SNIyer12, please stop reverting the stuff that I took out when I did the massive edits of this page. I'm not sure if you think you are going to sneak something pass me or what. You do not have to add that the Reagan family was grief stricken. Of course they were. If something can be assumed, it doesn't need to be mentioned. Also, again, you do not need to link the same thing more than once in an article. It is not necessary. -- Woohookitty 20:36, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
We currently have conflicting information regarding the date that the casket was transported from California to DC: did it happen on June 9 or on June 10? Just checking to see if anyone knows off hand. -- MarkSweep 19:53, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Basically, things are linked the first time they are mentioned. And you don't link things more than once unless its absolutely necessary. -- Woohookitty 01:48, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I just did another round of major editing. Again. Add all you want to this article, but please stop reverting stuff back in that I took out. it's not like I took out anything germane. I took out flowery language and trivia. There is no reason for either in an encyclopedia article. Plus, there were some other issues. There were a couple of statements from people that did not have notations so I took those out. If you can come up with where they come from, put them back in. Just getting tired of taking the same things out again and again and again. -- Woohookitty 02:34, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Actually SNIyer12, when I said in the edit summary that it works better the other way, I didn't mean direction. You had changed it to all 3 pictures were on one line, all aligned on the right side. All I did was change it back to what it was, i.e. 2 next to each other and then one further down in the article. You yourself had them aligned right. -- Woohookitty 30 June 2005 04:21 (UTC)
SNIyer this evening added this bit of information: "CG MDW". I removed it once and have done so again -- it's a nonsensical designation to the lay reader and adds nothing to the article; see Wikipedia:Explain jargon. You also re-added this commented phrase: <!--You might want to create a page for the Air Force Band of the Golden West, stationed at Travis AFB, in California.--> I have removed it once again. A redlink is clearly an invitation to create an article that doesn't exist currently; there's no point for such a commented phrase inside the article, whether it's displayed or not. You also re-added this commented phrase: <!--Over 35 million around the world watched the funeral on television, see [http://www.ronantynan.net the website of Ronan Tynan].--> Again, there's no need for this to be there. Either the information belongs in the article or it doesn't. Re-adding information that was deleted earlier as a commented phrase is a bad faith move. I've deleted all of these changes. · Katefan0 (scribble) 02:00, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
It has been moved to Wikiquote:Tributes of world leaders on the death of Ronald Reagan per vote at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Reactions by world leaders to the death of Ronald Reagan. So SNIyer or anyone else, if you want to edit the article, you need to go onto Wikiquote's site. Please do not try to recreate the article on here or else it will be speedily deleted. Thanks. -- Woohookitty 06:33, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Mentioning the fact that most of the criticism came from liberal sources opens up a whole can of worms that we have tried to avoid here. I mean if you include that then you need to say how conservatives felt about it. No need to insert POV here. I will edit it so it isn't "some sources" but is more specific. -- Woohookitty 20:36, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
OK, my last additions (the Noonan/M. Novak article links) have been left in the article so I am disinclined to change the rest of this section. I just wanna point out that Tom Carson in his VV article described it as being written "in a sincere spirit of tribute to an enemy" in case there was any question as to where he stood POV-wise.
Ellsworth 22:22, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
I have titled that section, "Media comments on funeral coverage" because it is a better title, especially after seeing what had been said. Some used "Funeral coverage," others used "Criticisms of funeral coverage," and so on. I think that "Comments on funeral coverage" is a better title for that section. I had earlier used "Comments on funeral coverage," but after looking at the section, I decided to use "Media comments on funeral coverage." SNIyer12 (talk) 17:23, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
President Pro Tempore of the Senate and Senate President are 2 different offices. The Senate President in the United States is the Vice President. Through the years, the President Pro Tempore of the Senate has become the day-to-day gavel holder in the Senate, though they often give that role to junior senators on the majority side so they can learn the rules of the Senate. But, if there is a tie vote and during certain other times, the VP still acts as the President of the Senate and they have that official title. In fact, for most of the history of the US, it's been the only real role of the Vice President. Until the US Constitution is changed, the VP will still have that role. I know it's confusing, SNIyer, which is why I'm explaining it. :) -- Woohookitty (cat scratches) 19:56, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
The first sentence seems especially important, and "nearly a decade" implies "less than a decade".
The issue of mental impairment in heads of state is important enough that it doesn't seem reasonable to prejudge the issue of Reagan's mental capacity while in office (see this speech: http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/96/5/325.long) .
Maybe it would be better to say something like, "nearly ten years after publicly acknowledging he suffered from Alzheimer's." (source: http://www.nytimes.com/1994/11/06/us/in-poignant-public-letter-reagan-reveals-that-he-has-alzheimer-s.html)
I've never edited a wikipedia article, so I leave others to judge how best to address this, and what citations to use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.90.218.84 ( talk) 15:56, 30 January 2014 (UTC)