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It is strange to say "the Catholic clergy includes priests, bishops, cardinals." "Priest" and "bishop" are orders to which a man may be ordained; "cardinal" is not located on the same measurement scale; it is not an order; a man being created a cardinal is not receiving a sacrament; he is not being ordained at all.
Thanks, Ben, this is enlightening. Perhaps this can be summarized and worked into the article? RK
These titles of honor are not exclusive to the RC Church either. In the Orthodox Church we have honorary titles as well. They are not orders per se, but they confer seniority and certain prerogatives. Amonst the married clergy there are the titles of Protodeacon ( for a long serving deacon) and Archpriest ( for a long serving priest) and amongst the monastic hihiclergy there is the title of Archdeacon , Igumen and Archimandrite.-- Frmaximos 16:21, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)
I see that I was misunderstood, so I will try to be more explicit. I did not say cardinals are not clergymen. I read in a newspaper a few months ago that only one American cardinal is not a bishop. That would make no sense if "priest", "bishop", and "cardinal" were mutually exclusive ranks in the hierarchy. In the Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches there are three major orders to which a man may be ordained: deacon, priest, and bishop. There are also "minor orders", lower than "deacon", such as "acolyte" and "exorcist". I suspect these have fallen into disuse in recent centuries, but I'm not sure. In the Catholic and Orthodox churches, being ordained constitutes receiving one of the seven sacraments -- the one called "holy orders". But there are also various honors, titles, and ranks in the hierarchy that a clergyman may receive that do not involve receiving any sacrament. "Monsignor" and "cardinal" are among those. A priest who has never been ordained a bishop can be created a cardinal, although that is unusual. Like any priest who is not a bishop, he lacks the sacramental powers of a bishop; in particular, he cannot ordain.
So "deacon", "priest", and "bishop" are "orders" to which a man can be ordained, but "monsignor" and "cardinal" are not. However, they are titles given only to persons who have been ordained.
(I'm not actually a religious believer myself, but --- God knows why --- I've been reading about this stuff lately.) -- Mike Hardy
His name is Avery Dulles; he is a professor at Fordham University. Do a Google search, and you will find a biography reporting that he was ordained a priest and later created a cardinal, without every becoming a bishop. It's unusual, but not impossible.
Does anyone know how the titles of honor are conferred? Is it done liturgically or administratively? In the Orthodox Church most of these titles are conferred liturgically and this are in some sense minor ordinations.-- fathermaximos 14:40, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
Are LDS churches really led by 'Lay Clergy'? Everywhere else 'lay' means the people who are not clergy? DJ Clayworth 20:05, 29 Aug 2003 (UTC)
It the hierarchy of this Alabama-based group *really* significant enough for inclusion?
Non-Monastic Clergy in the Orthodox Church
I know of a bishop in the Church of Georgia who was selected as a bishop while a married priest. His wife agreed to go to a monastery and he was tonsured a monk. I understand this is not that uncommon in some of the former Communist countries where the ranks of the monastic clergy were decimated.-- fathermaximos 14:40, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
Can people please add to the page Women as theological figures (and post this request elsewhere if appropriate and I haven't done so already). Jackiespeel 16:56, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
--- Definition of Kleros
I've never seen Kleros defined as "fortune", the definition given by "Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon", is "lot" or "by lot, etc." and not fortune.
My understanding is that "kliros" is not applied here a sense meaning "allotment" or "heritage", but as a selection by lot. According to my bishop, the ordained staff at Hagia Sophia was once so large that even there it was impossible for them all to serve at once. Those who were to serve on a given day were therefore selected by lot. The place where the lots (kliroi, sg. kliros) were chosen was the "kliros", and one selected was a "klirikos", "of the lot". The usage for those actually serving perdured even after the staff dwindled and it was no longer necessary to draw lots. Thus it now applies to all ordained clergy. The "kliros" has become the place where the singers (always ordained in former times) stand and, ironically, is often where ordained clergy not serving also stand. Unfortunately, I cannot now find where he wrote this, and he didn't cite his source for it at the time anyway. I might also be misremembering some detail.
{The usage seems to date back to when appointments were agreed on by lot (as still happens under certain circumstances amongst the Orthodox): see the reference to the replacement of Judas by Matthias in Acts 1: 15-26, where his entry into the apostolate was by lot. johnwander} —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnwander ( talk • contribs) 20:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Since I don't have a verifiable source for this I'm not inserting it into the article, but since this is largely unreferenced I might anyway unless there are objections. TCC (talk) (contribs) 04:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
I've added some preliminary material to this section before going on to the details of specific denominations. Mostly this reflects the clarity issues discussed above. Mangoe 14:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
It might also be appropriate to add a section within Chrisian Clergy about Christian groups who do not believe in Clergy. Take the anibaptists of the Reformation as an example of an anti-Clergy group.
If the LDS don't have clergy -- as stated in the first couple of sentences, then why is there such a huge section devoted to these non-clergy? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to have a separate article about organization instead? Reverend Mommy 19:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC)candlemb
It seem to me that an unreasonable amount of the article is devoted to explaining LDS "clergy." Perhaps some succinctness is in order? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.228.206 ( talk) 17:00, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
I really don't understand why LDS leaders are not considered clergy. There is nothing being done by other Christian clergy that is not done by LDS leaders -- except getting paid. Is that the difference? If so, should that be in the lede? CsikosLo ( talk) 14:19, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
where did they get their food? they spent most of their time copying manuscripts praying or helping the poor right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 143.254.93.59 ( talk) 17:37, 23 March 2007 (UTC).
Suggestion:
There should be a separate article entitled Clergy Titles and Forms of Address which includes a table for every major sect/denomination. It could be similar to the table on the Religious symbolism page or this one: http://www.tanenbaum.org/etiquette_leaders.html (although it appears to have some errors in it). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.91.116.68 ( talk) 20:25, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
I would like to see some information about the salary of clergy. What are some typical salaries for the various denominations, for large, medium, and small congregations? What percentage of donations to a church are used to pay the salary of the clergy? Sister7 05:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
The OED has:
I suggest we keep this article as explicitly discussing Christian clergy and split the non-Christian portions into the priest article, which at present doesn't have a clearly distinct scope from this article's. dab (𒁳) 08:48, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
This term was coined rather late in the middle ages. The article now retroactively fits non-Christian religions here as well which doesn't seem to fit. Worse, a category "clergy" was applied to a Roman Pontifex Maximus, who of course, was elected or temporarily appointed. Julius Caesar was once a Pontifex Maximus. Belief or practice was not terrifically important. Nor was it a lifetime position. This seems a bit of a stretch. But with the loose boundaries of the article, it is hard to argue. Doesn't look from here as though those changes were ever discussed. Student7 ( talk) 17:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Every Pontifex Maximus since the 3rd century BC kept his position to his death, including Caesar. Dimadick ( talk) 09:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Transitional deacons are definitely addressed as "Reverend Mr." I'm not too wild about it, but so are permanent deacons. See, for example, this obit, which will probably perish with time; Wikipedia article: forms of address for reverend; an actual church listing which is where I have seen it most often. Student7 ( talk) 22:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
I know that the meat of this article is on the usage of the term in the Christian churches, and that is the biggest section; nevertheless, I still think it would be, given the framing of the article, more appropriate to organize the sections chronologically (regardless of length or depth of coverage). I just think this would be the most neutral, encyclopedic, and objective way to organize the article (these are just gross ballpark figures for chronological ordering):
I will be bold and change it for "encyclopedic" sake; if anyone has any other thoughts, I'd like to hear them.
I removed the following from the section on Orthodox clergy:
Though the jist of what the author said is correct, the Orthodox do not use the "theologian" in this way. For the Orthodox, the term "theologian" refers to one who lives a particularly holy life, and has been granted theoria (divine vision). and has nothing to do with academics. In fact, there have only been three saints in the history of the Church that have held the title of Theologian: John the Theologian, Gregory the Theologian and Simeon the New Theologian. MishaPan ( talk) 20:46, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
When you say that "the Orthodox do not use the term theologian in this way, I note that you used a capital letter, so I presume that you are referring to members of the Eastern Orthodox church. There could still be differences between a theologian and a priest in other denominations. ACEOREVIVED ( talk) 19:16, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
It seems that the Cleric article is covering exactly the same territory as this article, and so I propose that it be merged into Clergy. St Anselm ( talk) 02:42, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
I think we should have a category for people who renounced priesthood. Category:Former clergy? Comments? -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 19:32, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
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af — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.76.35.190 ( talk) 08:40, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
I know at least 3 (Bishop of Rome, Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria, Coptic Patriarch). 46.128.116.173 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:37, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
I do not understand 185.5.66.204 ( talk) 13:13, 19 June 2023 (UTC)