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This article reads more like doctrine article by an LDS church than an encyclopaedia entry. Maybe a more knowledgeable reader than myself could attempt to clean up the use of terms with obvious religious meaning like "revelation" or the historically suspect like "dictated" or "translated". There seems to be a not so subtle intent of never citing Smith as the author of any LDS document. What could be theologically correct from a Mormon point of view ends up sounding ridiculous in a historical account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.17.80.149 ( talk • contribs)
I have proposed merging Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints into this artcle. This was simply a spelling variant of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which redirects to this article. Since Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and Church of the Latter Day Saints do not have their own articles, its difficult to justify having one for Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. – SESmith 01:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I have deleted lds.org as an external link. Another editor restored it and wrote in the edit summary "are you dense? have you read this article? There is a difference between Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".
I'm not sure I follow. This page is about the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints". So why should lds.org, which is an official website of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", be in the external links? Your argument would seem to suggest that me that you would agree with deleting it, not with keeping it. I just don't see why the LDS Church's website should appear here but not the 100s of other churches that also claim to be the true successor of the Church of Christ, which is what this article is about. Ubi Terrarum 04:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I am starting this topic to ask for a consensus decision on what may be an error of oversight in the name of the Church later variations section, herein contained as section 3.3 of this article. It may interest you to know that the revelation referred to in that section is contained in the LDS D&C as section 115, and the relevant verses are verses 3-4. They read: "And also unto my faithful servants who are of the high council of my church in Zion, for thus it shall be called, and unto all the elders and people of my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, scattered abroad in all the world; For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." Now, I realize this is a secondary source that some editors may quibble over. For verification purposes, I refer you to the History of the Church reference contained in the explanatory introduction of that section. The relevant reference is HC 3:23-25. On page 24 of the aforementioned HC volume, the verses I just quoted from the D&C are listed. The only differences are as follows: "And also unto my faithful servants, who are of the [H]igh [C]ouncil of my [C]hurch in Zion [(for thus it shall be called)], and unto all the [E]lders and people of my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, scattered abroad in all the world; For thus shall my [C]hurch be called in the last days, even [t]he Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." This WP article erroneously cites the revelation as saying that it was thereafter called "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and it is evident from the sources that this is not the case. What I believe about which LDS denomination is the true Church that Smith claims to have restored is immaterial to this issue. All my objections at this point center around the erroneous claim of the name being as it appears in the article, when that is clearly not the way it is stated either in the LDS version of the revelation (secondary source) or the official HC version (primary source) and I think it needs to be fixed. Thoughts? -- Jgstokes-We can disagree without being disagreeable ( talk) 04:08, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
The description here of Alma baptizing himself is inaccurate. While he did immerse himself while baptizing Helam, he was not baptizing himself. See Joseph Fielding Smith: "According to Joseph Fielding Smith, we may conclude that Alma held the priesthood before he, with others, became disturbed with King Noah ... If he had authority to baptize that is evidence that he had been baptized. Therefore, when Alma baptized himself with Helam that was not a case of Alma baptizing himself, but merely as a token to the Lord of his humility and full repentance ... If I remember correctly, there is no reference to the baptism of Alma the elder or Helaman nor of Nephi and his brother Jacob, but we know they were baptized as were all the faithful members in the Church. [Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions , Vol. 3, pp. 203-204]" Quote taken from http://www.meridianmagazine.com/bookofmormon/080620water.html BradHyatt12 ( talk) 11:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Referring to this statement:
The above is incorrect. Book of Commandments 9 is now D&C 11. The quoted wording ("Behold, this is my doctrine...") does not appear in D&C 11; it is in D&C 10, which was received in the summer of 1828. I don't have a BoC available to check out and correct the citation, but the entire wording is off because the revelation (regardless of the correct citation) was received at a time different than what is indicated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Awyatt ( talk • contribs) 15:58, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
I'm having difficulty understanding why some editors want to retain the wp:LAUNDRY list of early church members that was recently added, especially those with marginal notability. Until the first six members were spelled out in a recent series of edits starting 5 August 2014, we previously just listed JSJr, Cowdrey, and mentioned there were about 30 others present. Then starting 31 August 2014 the list ballooned to try to document everyone present, using an anti-Mormon source to support the list. There is significant debate in Mormon studies about even the location of the meeting, much less agreement on a complete enumeration of everyone present. There is really little value to this article in getting into this level of minutia; the first six are well documented in many sources, and are not generally in dispute, but the rest really don't need to be included in the article, and add nothing but problems to this article. — Asterisk * Splat → 00:21, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
Whatever the consensus decides on this issue is fine with me. I only defended this source because it had existed in this article for so long. I would be fine citing another source containing this same information. I am not tied to this source. What I was objecting to was the unilateral removing of it without a consensus decision to the effect that it shouldn't be used. At least, that's the way I see it. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 03:21, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
I was under the impression it had been in the article longer than that, but I may be mistaken. If I am, I apologize for misrepresenting this edit and misdefending it. I only defended it because I thought it had been included by a previous consensus decision which I may or may not have been privy to. That's an interesting point, but I really couldn't say. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 06:05, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
As readers, we want to know who the earliest members of a new church were-- just as we want to know about signers of the Declaration of Independence.
One objection is to including Tucker's recollection because he was not a member of the Church-- but historians make use of outsider testimony, especially where insider sources are absent.
A second objection is that some early members are not notable. This misunderstands the purpose of Notability. "The notability guidelines do not apply to article or list content (with the exception that some lists restrict inclusion to notable items or people)."
However, to preemptively avoid concerns about cruft or undue, the list has been collapsed to a single line and the 'non-notable' names hidden inside a footnote. Darmokand ( talk) 08:24, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
Glad to hear it. I know we've had differences of opinion in the past about our work here on Wikipedia, so it's nice that we agree on this change. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 21:00, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
I think the subpage is a good idea. To both Darmokand and Asterisk, I would like to put in a gentle reminder that one of the chiefest policies of Wikipedia is to always assume good faith. In going over the recent interaction between you two, I'm not seeing much good faith manifested. So I would just like to gently remind you to always assume the best of those you interact with on Wikipedia. It makes things so much easier. That being said, again, the subpage is a good idea, though it will have to be fleshed out and include more sources if it is to remain on Wikipedia. I think an end result can be achieved that will satisfy everyone, if we work together on this instead of being divisive and quarreling amongst ourselves. Thanks. -- Jgstokes ( talk) 02:32, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
"This article is about the Church of Christ, the original name of the Latter Day Saint church founded by Joseph Smith. For other Latter Day Saint and non–Latter Day Saint denominations that use "Church of Christ", see Church of Christ (disambiguation)." "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" redirects here. For the present-day LDS Church, see The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. For the present-day Strangite church, see Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)."
It is ABSURD to redirect "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" here instead of to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". Here is a hint: A religion with ~15 million members will be most searched for on Wikipedia. Also, it is an absurd decision to use "Church of Christ" (a completely GENERIC term, as this acknowledges, here to refer to the Origial Smith-led religion. The lede needs a rewrite and the redirection needs to be corrected. I also note that the disambiguation page is a mess. Both do a TERRIBLE job of distinguishing the pseudo-Christian (sorry, thats how I see it) LDS splinters from more 'orthodox' Christian denominations. This completely fails to acknowledge that one splinter dominates (in terms of membership). If this article is about the ORIGINAL Smith religion, then SAY SO. And distinguish the time frame (that is up to the death of Smith) where it is relevant, and where a DIFFERENT article should be referred to, REFER TO IT! 216.96.76.54 ( talk) 13:25, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
The Church of Christ is not the LDS Church. Get your facts straight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:8832:2740:b594:43b:41f0:6107 ( talk • contribs)
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Yes, I agree w/ others here that the article needs to stay historically accurate. Even an initial read of sources or literature of the time will indicate that this movement was based on Biblical ideas or principles, otherwise it would not be considered part of a/ the "restorationist" movement. See /info/en/?search=One_true_church and other articles.
for example, try also: http://scriptures.byu.edu/tpjs/STPJS.pdf On pg. TPJS 10, it states that
Lord declared that many of these plain and precious sayings were to be restored, not
only through the Book of Mormon, "but through a revision of the Bible." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Organist00 ( talk • contribs) 23:42, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
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The article states the latest name of the church to be 'Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' without the word 'The'. Even if the original transcript of the published revelation omitted 'The' (a debate for others) the practice very soon after was to add the capitalized 'The'. At least a reference to the modern usage and style should be included or the page is misleading. Andyn1331 ( talk) 00:06, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Church of Christ(Latter Day Saints) has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 28 § Church of Christ(Latter Day Saints) until a consensus is reached.
Steel1943 (
talk) 06:22, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
This article does not mention that seven missionaries were sent to Northwest England in 1837. One of the converts was Miles Romney who immigrated to the United States. Amidst all the arguing about church names and legitimacy of successors, The history of the early development appears to have been forgotten. Humpster ( talk) 04:39, 27 February 2024 (UTC)