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needs list of prominent artists. ReverendG 00:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
yes please merge "christian hip hop" and "holy hip hop" - but PLEASE do NOT list under "Holy Hip Hop" that sounds so dorky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Djp72 ( talk • contribs)
Now...just because something sounds dorky does not mean people do not use it. But I would have to agree that Holy Hip Hop sometimes is used to described religious related hip hop like Islam. Under the old mp3.com website they had the section for Christian hip hop under spiritual hip hop.
Please give some explanation as to why history should be deleted. Paul foord 14:37, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
likewise the secular hip hop community has also at times persecuted Christian hip hop artists and followers.
This sentence reeks of NPOV, either we should scrap that sentence or add sources.
Not true. The term "sucker emcee" goes back farther than Danny boy.
Agreed. "Sucker MCs" dates at least back to the Sugarhill Records era...I believe there was a relatively popular rap song with that name. Long before D-Boy. GBrady ( talk) 17:06, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
Is there a reliable cite for D-Boy being killed due to evangalizing the gangs? All reliable sources I can find say it was a case of mistaken identity or the motive for his killing was unknown. Ashmoo 02:47, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Most recent source I could find quoted his mother as saying there was no definitive motive given/culprit found. I've changed that in the article. GBrady ( talk) 17:31, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Some of the intro needs to be moved to the article. At present it is very unbalanced hjaving an intro as long as the article. Whats with all the links to clothiong brands etc. It looks a lot like spam to me? David D. (Talk) 06:59, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Per the Dallas Morning News ( http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-cookie_08met.ART.State.Edition2.e26d8ac.html), Danny Rodriguez "D-Boy" was murdered in 1990 when he was leaving his apartment complex. Police have never apprehended a suspect and the motive for the killing is not known.
I have fixed that portion of the D-Boy article. I'm having some trouble getting the footnotes in there so if someone can explain to me how to do that, I'll try and properly source it. Also, the article provided me some great additional details to add to the article...renaming Street Church after D-Boy, the 2006 tribute concert etc. Does anyone know more about what that tribute CD was called, who was on it, who participated at the concert, etc.? GBrady ( talk) 14:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
One of the most ironic quirks of rap artists, given their usual lyrics - look through the liner notes to most US RAP/Hip Hop. You will find the artist/band thanking god. I think Geto Boys are the best example of this 164.143.244.34 17:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Should the Geto Boys be featured in the article? 96.37.22.115 ( talk) 20:45, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
...two groups emerged in this new scene that not only had the "gospel" / "Christian" part, but also had the credible skills and "street wise" artistry to make an impact in the secular or mainstream scene as well...
This section in particular seems to just be blind assertion. Whether someone is 'street-wise' or not is a matter of opinion. A better way of framing this would be if you found someone of prominence in the hip hop community who expressed this point of view.
Before The Cross Movement, many of the artists in the genre were passive, speaking of Christ only when necessary.
Can this be supported with a citation? This seems to be a VERY POV statement as well as very dismissive of the intent of old-school Christian rappers from the late 80s/early 1990s as well. I'd like to see this drastically reworded unless it can be cited. GBrady ( talk) 17:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
How is Rawsrvnt's album, "In Rare Form" listed as the first Hip Hop Worship Album? Wasn't Hip Hop Praise's album "Sinner's Prayer" way before that? This article seems to have a lot of fake statements like this one, and I'm concerned the credibility simply isn't here. 141.151.175.91 20:54, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
How do I post to this discussion page as there is no such option? The only option I have is to edit other people's posts!
The "Holy Hip Hop Database" agrees with User above that "Hip Hop Praise" from MG the Visionary was the first hip hop worship album. 2000 is given as release date: "He also produced and recorded the project "Sinner's Prayer" released in 2000, which is the first praise hip hop album." In Rare Form wasn't released until 2006. GBrady ( talk) 15:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I've seen the name "Plain White Rapper" mentioned as an early cassette only Christian rap release but I haven't been able to find a definitive source yet. Anyone familiar with that tape know its year of release? GBrady ( talk) 17:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I had the tape by the "Plain White Rap-per" It did exist as one of the first "Rap" tapes I remember. Here is what I know about it;
Title: Plain White Rap-per [sound recording].
Main Author: Price, Terry Lee.
Registration Number / Date: SR0000104779 / 1989-03-22
Date of Publication: October 30, 1987
Description: sound cassette : analog.
Publisher: Brentwood, TN : Brentwood Music, p1987
OCLC Number: 42543208
Contents: (Side A) The bridge -- The prodigal -- (Side B) The bridge (accompaniment track) -- The prodigal (accompaniment track).
First just for those who are new or not familiar with Wiki. Places in the article that cite and external website are called "Refences" and are automatically added n the page when you use {{reflist}} on a page. So DO NOT delete this tag. If you want to have genereal references to for article where no direct citation is used, you may put it after the {{reflist}} tag, however this is discouraged. If you just want to post a link, you can use the section I just created called Web Links.
I think we should keep the Web Links section as it is a valuable recource, however a general wiki concensus among many users is not to use them. Many people use WP to promote thier own or favorite sites or artists, but I still think this is OK as long as it's not abused. See the comment I put in the section regarding guidelines for adding sites. If you feel the section should be deleted, please discuss here before deleting. Thanks! -- Lefton4ya ( talk) 21:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I like the DMOZ link first, but unless anyone wants to be an editor over there, the links on DMOZ are sorely lacking so I think a few longstanding professional website links should be included in the links section. I added: "NO Links to Artist, Record Label, Stores, Magazines/e-zines, radio sites - only general Christian Hip Hop sites with professional reviews or links to other sites." in page note. If you disagree, reach a consensus here. -- Lefton4ya ( talk) 16:51, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't think that people like Tupac, Dmx, Jay-Z and Kanye should be mentioned in this article, let alone given a whole paragraph. Just because an artist mentions God, Christ, or anything remotely spiritual in one song then turns around talking about selling drugs, killing and hurting people, etc. in fourteen or fifteen other songs is NOT CHRISTIAN music. The only three people I myself have heard of in this article are Lecrae, Trip Lee and Tedashii. There are other artists worth mentioning in this article too. People from Cross Movement Records like The Cross Movement, Flame, The Ambassador Sho Baraka, Json...Then S.O.A.K. (Sons of a King) with Lunie 3:80, Semaj, and Judah Man. Conviction, Pettidee...-- Lilac22281 ( talk) 16:33, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
There's a pretty big issue being skipped over in how this article covers the genre. The great divide among Christian rappers is between people who rap about Christian beliefs, and people who hold Christian beliefs but rap about other things, perhaps occasionally touching on their Christianity as part of who they are. I myself tend to follow the second type of Christian rap artist, and enjoy Mars Ill and LA Symphony. -- Nerd42 ( talk) 15:12, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
No, what I meant by the term being meaningless is that I reject the concept that a song can be Christian or unChristian. Only a person can be a Christian, a beat is just a beat. The article Holy Hip Hop's Civil War should be helpful.
The way this article deals with the subject, Insane Clown Posse could be considered a Christian hip hop group because their Dark Carnival mythology is, according to their own statements, basically a disguise for a moral, supernatural, theistic vision of heaven and hell that basically corresponds to the Christian one conceptually. They consider themselves to be against Satan and for God and to be warning people about the wrath to come, encouraging them to not sin and go to heaven instead of hell. But absolutely no one in the Christian hip hop genre would describe them as Christian hip hop unless I'm very much mistaken. At the same time, the way this article is now, deepspace5 wouldn't be a Christian hip hop group, given what they do, when they are definitely well within the genre. -- Nerd42 ( talk) 21:58, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
As requested by Walter Görlitz, here is my justification for the Multiple Issues template:
Rwalker ( talk) 15:55, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
I made a few changes to the lede and had them reverted, so I wrote them (hopefully) a bit more clearly with an explanation here. The opening description was a bit awkward with the 'expressing the artist's faith'. First, the simplest description is that the music has lyrics with Christian themes. Adding the 'faith' bit adds unneeded complication. Also, it is our course possible to be an atheist/agnostic or unsure of one's faith and write Christian hip hop. Not that I'm saying anyone is doing it, but since we can't know the minds of others, the most correct definition is based on the features of the genre which can be Verified. Finally, wikipedia focuses on Topics not Words, some I changed the focus from the 'term' to the 'subject' of Christian hip hop. Ashmoo ( talk) 12:50, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
I deleted most of a paragraph about the influence of Christian Hip because it was incorrect. Mainstream rappers Jay-Z, Tupac, Kanye West, and Richie Rich have never publicly claimed to be Christians. Their music and Tupac's Makaveli CD cover are not Christian. Jay-Z has publicly mocked and ridiculed and mocked "Christians"/followers of the Messiah as well as The Holy Bible.
Here are some of the lyrics to Jay-Z's song "Empire State of Mind" http://www.metrolyrics.com/empire-state-of-mind-lyrics-jayz.html
...Eight million stories out there, and they're naked
Cities is a pity, half of y'all won't make it
Me, I gotta plug, Special Ed "I Got It Made"
If Jesus payin' LeBron, I'm paying Dwyane Wade...
Mommy took a bus trip, now she got her bust out
Everybody ride her just like a bus route
Hail Mary to the city, you're a virgin
And Jesus can't save you, life starts when the church ends...
Just because someone mentions Jesus or "god" in their song doesn't mean that it is inspired by Christ any more than someone who mentions medicine while talking makes them a doctor.
I invite you to further dialog before reverting the wikipedia page back to its previous state.
-deshonj — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deshonj ( talk • contribs) 14:47, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
If anyone wants to help create an article for Derek Minor, formerly known as PRo, I've created the user subpages User:3family6/Derek Minor and User:3family6/Derek Minor discography.-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 19:23, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Bibliography for upcoming edits...
Zachman1095 ( talk) 21:40, 20 April 2015 (UTC)Zachman1095
Outline of Upcoming Revisions -
> Reaction and Acceptance
>Crossover – revision - fill this in with information on how Christian Hop-Hop has influenced mainstream Hip/Hop such as relgious themes emerging in mainstream (example: Kanye West Jesus Walks)
Zachman1095 (
talk) 21:49, 20 April 2015 (UTC)Zachman1095
Original Comprehensive Outline posted 5/2/15... (removed)
Revised Comprehensive Outline of Upcoming Revisions (5/5/15) -
Various mainstream rap artists, including Kanye West, Nas, Common, Talib Kweli, and many others, have incorporated mainstream Christian symbols and messages into there music through images, lyrical content, and over-arching themes. Kanye West's hit song Jesus Walks has received a notable amount of attention for its Christian content. http://ethnomusicologyreview.ucla.edu/journal/volume/12/piece/507
The hit song "One Mic" by Nas featured an obvious illusion to Christianity in the Chorus "Yo all I need is... One God to show me how to do things his Son did..." https://play.google.com/music/preview/Tme35kt6nsco343ofynekkk5cwa?lyrics=1&pcampaignid=kp-lyrics&u=0# http://genius.com/Nas-one-mic-lyrics
Prominent Christian Rapper Lecrae, who's 2014 album "Anomaly" reached number 1 on the Billboard 100 and received numerous other accolades, expresses an explicitly Christian message in the majority of his music. However, while generally categorized as a Gospel or Christian rapper, he distances himself from the genre of Gospel Rap saying, "Christian is my faith not my genre." Other mainstream artists, such as Kanye West, while using religious themes and symbols, hold that that neither they or their music is "religious", out of a desire to distance themselves from negative stigma associated with mainstream religion. http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/lecrae-christian-rappers-christian-rap-and-the-no-1-album-in-the-country/
The use of religious themes in music that is otherwise regarded as illicit has sparked controversy over the validity of the religious messages expressed through the music. Some Christian listeners hold that "rap music, because of what it inherently communicates, is incompatible with the Christian Gospel", and attack the use of Christian themes and symbols in mainstream music as being disingenuous. http://religiousaffections.org/articles/articles-on-music/can-rap-be-christian-evaluating-hip-hop/
On the other hand, "since the mid-1990s Michael Eric Dyson and others have pointed to some cultural sensibilities shared by Christian churches and hip hop music; namely male privilege, middle-class biases, sexism, and homophobia." http://religiondispatches.org/kanye-wests-critique-of-prosperity-preaching/
Some analysits believe that the suffering expressed through rap music manifests itself in a certain spirituality that can be compatible with mainstream religious messages, although it approaches religous ideas in a much less direct way than most forms of religous expression. "Just as the MC slides into notes and dances around beats, “spirit” is not attacked straight on; it is courageously approached from below, from the margins, from youth, from uncertainty, through the structures of capitalism and mainstream media." Peter J. Paris inThe Spirituality of African Peoples
Some think that the use of mainstream religous symbols in predominately African-American music has increased the extent to which that music has disseminated through predominately white American culture. http://www.arts.cornell.edu/knight_institute/publicationsprizes/discoveries/discoveriesspring2006/02marchant.pdf Zachman1095 ( talk) 20:03, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
I extended the introduction to better summarize the contents of the whole page. I edited the style and language, as well as reorganized the "History" and "Artists and Styles" sections, as well as relocated information to different sections that was inappropriately placed. I added information already present in different parts of the article to the Industry and Markets sections, I changed "Performances" to "Festivals" and added information on certain Festivals that was present in other parts of the article, and reorganized the Crossover section into two sections, "Crossover" and "Acceptance", and added new information from my own research. I also added "Gospel Rap in Brazil" to forms and subgenres with info from other parts of the article. Zachman1095 ( talk) 23:36, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
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