This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
The contents of the Cessationism page were merged into Cessationism versus continuationism on 13 January 2020. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
The contents of the Continuationism page were merged into Cessationism versus continuationism on 13 January 2020. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
The article should be called "Cessationism versus Continuationism" and not "Cessation-continuation debate." It is about a dispte between two positions known as Cessationism and Continuationism. Therefore, it does not make any sense to refer to the dispute between Cessationists and Continuationists as "Cessation-continuation debate." Aleksandar Katanovic ( talk) 15:03, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
The former page "Cessation-continuation debate" is now moved to the current page "Cessationism versus Continuationism." Theophilius ( talk) 19:30, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
The original article was 63kB long. I have reduced the article to 39kB. I think that further reductions would cripple the article. Theophilius ( talk) 01:46, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
The part about arguments in favour of Cessationism is entirely biased: each argument is immediately countered by an argument in favour of continuationism. The author of this article is definitely not objective. For example, the Sola Scriptura argument is definitely one of the main reasons for cessationism. Instead, we now read: "Rather, we would regard the authority of the Scriptures according to the principle of Prima Scriptura." Who is 'we' and if 'we' is Wikipedia, why does it have an opinion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.49.123.21 ( talk) 09:03, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
The second paragraph from the first section is totally biased and heavily tends to original research because it does not quote anybody.
I will remove it immediately. 92.29.171.229 ( talk) 18:33, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
I changed the title of this heading from "Bias" to "Revision of the first section Problems in the dispute". There is already one heading dealing with the question of neutrality. In this section of the Talk Page, we are more dealing with the question of the revision of the first section, i.e. whether the removal of the whole 2nd paragraph is justified. Theophilius ( talk) 23:01, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
I have tried to improve the encyclopediac tone of the article by replacing first-person sentences with a more formal third-person style. All masculine singular third person pronouns are replaced with gender neutral pronouns as well. There are also other minor editions for improving a more neutral style. I believe that the encyclopedic tone of the article is no longer an issue, and for this reason I have removed the maintaince template. Theophilius ( talk) 23:31, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Cessationism versus Continuationism. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:31, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 16:12, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Cessationism versus Continuationism →
Cessationism versus continuationism – Per
MOS:CAPS § Religion.
142.161.81.20 (
talk) 23:33, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
The absence of any appeal to the earliest church fathers in this debate is remarkable. As it is clear that the first generation after the apostles had no doubt about the gifts persisting - most obviously with Justin Martyr's claim that 'the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to the present time' Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho Cpt 82. Ender's Shadow Snr ( talk) 17:25, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
@ Ender's Shadow Snr, Dgpop, Editor2020, Darlig Gitarist, Theophil789, Yaki-gaijin, and VQuakr: I propose to merge Cessationism and Continuationism into Cessationism versus continuationism. We currently have three articles about one theological controversy, which does not serve readers well. We ought to bring everything into a single page. Cessationism can feed into a history of cessationism position and likewise continuationism. The description of the dispute itself is already all in here and there is duplication across the pages.
The pages were originally split when they became unwieldy. However they have now been substantially rewritten, and although more improvement is possible, it would also aid editors if they were working on a single page and not cross referencing with three. The resulting article should be of reasonable size once cross page duplication is redacted. Thanks. -- Sirfurboy ( talk) 13:17, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
I have now merged these pages as per the merge discussion. The merge process was largely a copy paste (as per the merge instructions). The next step is to prune out some duplication between the merged history of cessationism, continuationism and the combined history already on this page. I will take a look at that soon (unless anyone else beats me to it). -- Sirfurboy ( talk) 15:37, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
The article is stating that John Calvin strongly taught Cessationism. In fact, there are no direct quotes from John Calvin stating that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, the Sign Gifts, have ceased in the Church today. There are in fact, also, Charismatic Presbyterians, and Charismatics in every mainline denomination from the Reformation. The following points are stated in the article:
Cessationism – “It was when these miracles in the Catholic Church were used as a polemic against the post-Reformation Protestant churches that John Calvin began to develop a doctrine of cessationism..” Continuationism – “The Protestant Reformation saw the birth of a doctrine of cessationism within Calvinism that sought to deny that the gifts of the Holy Spirit persisted beyond the Apostolic Age.” History – “John Calvin wrote in a preface to his Institutes of the Christian Religion that the primary purpose of miracles was to confirm divine revelation and affirm the Church's doctrine.”
The first two statements from the article under the topics, Cessationism and Continuationism, are stated as fact without any Reference supports to the claims. It seems to be written by a person that is coming from the Cessationist viewpoint without any reference support that John Calvin believes that way.
The final statement in the History topic states that in a preface to his Institutes of the Christian Religion John Calvin states "that the primary purpose of miracles was to confirm divine revelation and affirm the Church's doctrine." It references a Cessationist making this statement without referencing the Preface themselves. One can look up the Preface to the Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin, and read it themselves, there is no mention of this conclusion at all in the Preface to the Institutes.
Extreme modern Cessationists are painting a false narrative that John Calvin was in the complete Cessationist Camp, all Gifts Ceasing, and the narrative is in fact false. John Calvin was not B.B. Warfield, just as John Calvin was dead for 54 years before the Synod of Dordt, and was not TULIP Reformed. There is no Reference to these statements. These Cessationist theologians should consider John Calvin's Commentary on 1 Corinthians 14:5 "...there are at present great theologians, who declaim against them with furious zeal. As it is certain, that the Holy Spirit has here honored the use of tongues with never-dying praise, we may very readily gather, what is the kind of spirit that actuates those reformers, (813) who level as many reproaches as they can against the pursuit of them." Easeltine ( talk) 19:18, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Should encyclopedic content be ruled by the summarising of concepts, or warring controversy? I would suggest the former, but it depends on whether the purpose of the article is to teach a history of the controversy or give an explanation of the concepts. While it is true that Christians have significantly disagreed over the associated issues for arguably at least several hundred years, I question whether it has really been an overly helpful move to merge the formerly separate articles a couple of years ago. Therefore, I propose either a revert, or at least another splitting, of this article for the following reasons:
Unfortunately, I suspect that some editors may have had a relative amount of free-range with the potentially abused content of this article, owing to its very niche audience of theologians and some theologisers like myself. Ideally, I think we still should have three articles:
I know this would make the articles a lot smaller but I really strongly believe that this is a much better way to go. Although, having said that, I wonder if the articles might become bigger if one takes into account the edit done by the aforementioned editor? Njsch ( talk) 08:51, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
I don't think this comparison is entirely accurate. Whilst there are examples of using the gifts without the Bible, there are many Liberal churches that hold to a more naturalistic view and are cessationist as a result - i.e. don't hold to miraculous and supernatural gifts. Many third-wave continualists would also justify their position from scripture such as the events during Pentacost and throughout the book of Acts, and the prophecy in Joel 2 which arguably refers to all of God's people in the end times, not just the apostles Joshun ( talk) 10:18, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
I have deleted this:
Continuationism is a
Christian theological belief that emphasizes "experiencing the person and work of the Holy Spirit, especially the gifts of the Spirit, including signs and wonders, prophecy and healing in their worship, discipleship, ministry, mission and evangelism."
[1]
I added in the better source needed, but on reflection, the quote is just from a web article where the writer says:
I would define Renewalist as those Pentecostal, Charismatic, Neo-charismatic and other movements, denominations, institutions, churches, groups, practices and individuals that put a primacy on experiencing the person and work of the Holy Spirit, ...
Although the author is himself Assistant Professor of Evangelization in the Heisel Chair at United Theological Seminary, and thus perfectly within his rights and a good authority to make such a statement, the article is just a magazine article. By no means the worst sourcing this article has or has had, but we need to be doing better. If he said it here, did he say it in a journal article? Nevertheless I would have let it stand except that the part missing from the quoted material in the article, as you see here, is that he is defining Renewalists, Pentecostals and Charismatics etc., but he is not defining Continuationism, which is a spectrum that includes these but is not limited to them. Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 15:38, 17 August 2022 (UTC) Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 15:38, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
References
The page has 3 maintenance templates:
They were all added together and none have been addressed. But neither is there any discussion on this page of what the problems are or where. This is what I think are the problem areas:
Sirfurboy🏄 ( talk) 20:50, 20 July 2023 (UTC)