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Others interpret the precept against killing to mean human beings and thus indulge in omnivorous behavior. .. Is that correct? What is the source of this information? I have personally never met a single person who held such a view. In my experience, most lay Chinese 'Buddhists' continue to eat meat purely because they think it tastes nice. Becoming vegetarian seems to be something that is viewed as rather extreme, or something that old people do. -- Pratyeka 04:20, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Question: are they vegetarian or vegan dishes? That is, you mention that they don't use animal products, including lard; if they don't use any at all in the preparation, including for instance eggs, beef broths, honey, etc. then they are in fact vegan.
Further question: so since Buddhists are opposed to the killing of animals, they are themselves vegans, aren't they? i.e. they don't eat animal products or use them in any other way, including to wear?
Also, I think this article might be moved to Chinese Buddhist cuisine. Or maybe that will be corrected automatically with the new UseModWiki upload?
Buddhists aren't necessarily vegan: my understanding of the tradition is that they do not wish to cause pain, so they will not kill an animal for food, nor steal eggs or milk products; but some will consume these things if they are given to them and would otherwise go to waste (the way an animal rights activist might wear leather--it's already too late for that cow--but never buy them) and some will also eat animals that have died naturally. American Buddhists generally are more lax; in fact, the Roshi under which I studied at the Mountain View Zen Center ate meat regularly (though most of the other students were vegetarian to one degree or another). But then Zen is kind of its own animal anyway. -- LDC
I think the problem here is that Buddhist dietary restrictions are structured very differently from Islamic or Jewish restrictions. Trying to explain Roadrunner 15:46, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Took out the first paragraph. It didn't sound encyclopedia-ish and didn't add any information I could see. Roadrunner 15:52, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Moved to Buddhist cuisine, since we include information about Japan and Vietnam Roadrunner 15:56, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Ancient India was also buddhist?! acourding to who? Buddhism comes from Hinduism not the other way around! Hindu vegeterians are vegeterians for hindu reasons not because of buddha —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.47.107 ( talk) 21:34, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I disagree with what has been posted in the first paragraph, as well as the Chinese Translation (I don't know about the Japanese translation) of the term Buddhist cuisine.
The paragraph imply that the term zhāi cài (Traditional form: 齋菜 ; Simplified form: 斋菜) means a Buddhist diet. However, the term zhāi cài (Traditional form: 齋菜 ; Simplified form: 斋菜) simply means a vegetarian diet and can be used on anyone who follows a vegetarian diet, even if it is for non religious purposes.
As such, I suggest changing the following sentence "It is known as zhāi cài " to "It is a form of zhāi cài".
Silverelf ( talk) 10:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I disagree with the first, second, and third paragraphs. The article, as it stands, is poorly structured. The Chinese/Vietnamese section should be researched more closely, as I believe that the no- garlic/onion tradition may stem from Taoism or other Chinese philosophical, or other religious traditions, and may have been transplanted into Chinese Buddhist belief. Vietnam has been DEEPLY influenced by China (indeed, the Vietnamese migrated from southern China to found their state!)(that is QUITE debatable!) and this would account for some of the differences. Basically, this article needs a more informed rewrite, and I lack the knowledge/resources to do it myself at the moment. -- prat 01:58, 2004 Feb 17 (UTC)
Plants are "living beings", too, in many religious traditions. That needs to be disambiguated. Also, technically, there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" karma.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.252.128.13 ( talk • contribs) 17:08, April 15, 2004.
11/7/04: Major re-write, especially on order-of-presentation/clarity issues. It looked like the part about 'wu hun' being only in limited regions was corrected sometime in between your Feb 17 note above, Prat, and my editing this page, today -- so although I'm not sure what the 1st 3 paragraphs *were* in Feb (and too lazy to look), I'm assuming some of your concerns might also have been addressed with re: 1st 3 paragraphs, by third parties. But I further modified the wu hun part: There are many more than the 4 vegetables which had been cited which are restricted; also, the author had called wu hun 5 restricted vegetables, then listed only 4 vegetables. ;-) Perhaps more accurate is that there are 5 FAMILIES of restricted, odorous vegetables (?), with e.g. onions, leeks, & shallots being all in 1 family, "onions"... but the consensus I found is that any pungent vegetable is restricted, so I specified that no number, although the term 'wu hun,' when translated, may specify 5 (?). I just used the 4 given (which I confirmed), plus some others listed as forbidden by multiple sources, as examples rather than a definitive list.) I replaced, deleted, or gave the caveats regarding a few minor factual oversights re: Buddhism. Generally agreed with the rest... Also added some info., but it can probably still use more perspectives since, as another author pointed out, there are various practices, and various reasons cited for those practices...
As for plants being living beings, I believe today's Buddhist scholars' theory is that until the Greeks created the two (now 5, so even they weren't fully-aware ;-P ) Kingdoms of plants/animals, ancient man thought of all 'living' things as things which move. Check out Genesis (written, what, 1000-2000 BC?), which speaks of 'living' things this way. Not 100% positive that the Eastern ancients ca. Buddha's lifetime shared that limited perspective of 'life,' though, but this has also been addressed in the article by 1) noting that Buddhist vegetarians cite those reasons (as I've personally seen many do), without a POV judgment of whether they're interpreting Buddha's Five Precepts rightly or wrongly according to what Buddha intended, and 2) avoiding the specifics of the Five Precepts and redirecting to the 'Buddhism' page. ;-)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.170.56.179 ( talk • contribs) 05:07, November 8, 2004.
Of the 10-billion animals who are killed each year in the USA, alone, far more are killed world-wide, especially in the European Union, and also in Asia, 'farming' has been turned into a manufacturing operation, and even the government agencies refer to the farms, now, as "factory farms." It is important to recognise that there are those people who choose not to eat animal products from factory operations.
The vast majority of hens chickens are kept in cages, and the floorspace size for Each hen is less than a standard piece of notebook paper, as per the accepted industry standard for floorspace. McDonalds recently (as of WHEN?!) increased the floorspace for their their egg hens, and it is still smaller than a piece of paper. http://www.upc-online.org/fall2000/mcdonalds.html
For dairy products, cows are artificially inseminated, nowadys, to keep them producing milk (only female animals produce milk when pregnant and immediately afterwards). Their calves are taken from them in less than a week, so the milk from the cows can be collected for sale. The cows are milked (generally mechanically), at least twice a day, and they are impregnanted again 2 months after they give birth. This situation has endured for more than 2,000 years.
The intensive milk production results in the cow's body being less able to produce so much milk, and they are killed after about 5 years, compared to living 25 years naturally. On family farms, such as those farms of the Mennonites and Amish, this is this not necessarily the case. (Comment: In MANY FAMILY farms, see also: MENNONITE, these inhumane conditions are not necessarily followed.) The calves either become dairy cows if female, or veal calves if male. Many people wonder WHY it is considered cruel to tae Milk or Meat from these animals. The calves raised for veal spend their entire lives in a staal so small they cannot turn around. Please, inquiry desired! hens http://www.tryveg.com/cfi/toc/?v=04birds
dairy http://www.tryveg.com/cfi/toc/?v=04cows
Diets without foods that result in the unfortunate cruelty: can provide excellent health, even better than the standard diets. Some world record athletes are vegan (Dave Scott), although that is QUITE uncommon. Diets with fewer animal products also require less water and land and energy, and also create MORE (?) air + water pollution and degrade topsoil less.
http://www.tryveg.com/cfi/toc/ has tons more info
Peace, and Namaste :)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.85.82.129 ( talk • contribs) 05:29, July 8, 2004.
I believe that wu han [sic] refers to garlic, scallions, onions, shallots and leeks, which are all members of the lilly family ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/beyond/factsheets/herbs/herbs2_prog2.shtml)
It's not just in Buddhism but from what I remember in Hinduism and some of the many more obscure faiths in India but it's found in many religions.
Buddha specifically ruled out vegetarianism for monks to be a precept when Devadatta made a request.
"...All monks who live purely and all Bodhisattvas always refrain even from walking on grass; how can they agree to uproot it? How then can those who practise great Compassion feed on the flesh and blood of living beings?..."-Buddha, in Surangama Sutra
Today in the Theavarda sect being vegetarian may be seen by other monks as trying to impress - not good.
On the Karma issue.. the previous writer is correct. Karma just means actions, actions have consequencies. The aim for Buddhist is to remove themselves from the endless wheel of life and Karma - not to be reborn again in this realm but to gain nirvana. - Anonymous Nov. 12, 2004
http://www.recipeland.com/encyclopaedia/index.php/Buddhist_cuisine has this exact article. Did we steal it from them or they steal it from us? Neither specifies a source.
Just thought I'd mention that.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mparise ( talk • contribs) 18:18, June 20, 2005.
Seems everybody is ignoring the fact that most Tibetan buddhist not only DO eat meat, but some religious practices in vajrayana are intended to be done WITH alcohol and meat.
There are many reasons for this, one of them is: To eat the animal's meat is an act of compassion, and to do it compassionately will help this animal to make a connection with the Dharma and thus be on his way to liberation.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.106.40.225 ( talk • contribs) 05:05, November 8, 2005.
I think the article should focus primarily on the chinese and japanese cultural ideas expressed in their words for monastic foods; that is to say, food that is primarily vegetarian with many meat analogues that sometimes may not include allium vegetables for their "meat-like" aroma and sensory indulgence. What bhuddhist monastics eat outside of China and Japan, or what some sects eat within those areas is not really the issue. A smaller and clearly dileneated portion of this article should confine the discussion of what some bhuddhists might eat in some other place, mostly just with the disclaimer, "Bhuddhist vegetarian cuising of east Asia does not necessarily imply that all Bhuddhists practice vegetarianism, only that vegetarian monastic cuisine has developed as an instituion in those areas and has, in many cases, expanded beyond temple walls." My point is just that what theravedic bhuddhists do or do not eat is not really an issue, because that's not what a chinese or japanese speaker means when they refer to temple food. If a person in Sichuan province eats corn flakes for breakfast one day, it doesn't mean that corn flakes have become Sichuan chinese food!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.56.70.127 ( talk • contribs) 06:10, February 18, 2006.
Just a note: in Jainism, the main reason that onions, garlic, and root crops are avoided isn't because harvesting them destroys organisms in the soil. Rather, it's because these vegetables are believed by the Jains to contain infinite numbers of minute organisms called nigoda (or perhaps the plural is "nigodas?" I'm not sure). For this reason, eating these crops is seen by the Jainas as extremely destructive and a huge source of karma, as it involves killing millions of organisms. In light of this, I'm not sure if the logic can really be said to be the same for the Buddhist restriction on these crops, since I don't think Buddhism posits the existence of nigoda.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.68.152.15 ( talk • contribs) 04:50, March 10, 2006.
Fails WP:V and WP:RS can't be used as a reference for information. If the text can be referenced from a proper place please do so or it will have to be removed.-- Crossmr 02:56, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Whoever has read the book of Going forth: Buddhist vision of vinaya (ISBN-10: 0824827872 and ISBN-13: 978-0824827878), please help to add book review on the topic of buddhist cuisine.
The etymological information removed here is of crucial importance to the topic (specifically the literal translation of the East Asian terms 齋 as "purity" rather than "vegetarian"). Can it be reworked rather than eliminating? Badagnani ( talk) 23:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
The literal meaning of the Chinese still appears to be missing. Badagnani ( talk) 00:37, 9 August 2008 (UTC)