This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Atmospheric electricity article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
13:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC) 174.109.113.253 ( talk) The following sentence is not supported by the reference that is cited. (and the sentence is not correct, either.) "The potential gradient in most locations is much lower than this value because it is an average of the charge built up by every thunderstorm and atmospheric disturbance around the globe.[4]"
174.109.113.253 ( talk) 13:16, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
I think the part discussing the conductivity of the atmosphere needs modification. It makes an unqualified assertion that conductivity increases exponentially with altitude. This may be true within a certain distance regime, however it is not true in general. Those who work with vacuum systems are aware that there is a range of pressures in which the atmosphere is especially easy to ionize. I believe that it is the onset of this pressure range that corresponds to the exponential increase with altitude.
However, past some altitude the atmosphere will be so rarefied that the conductivity will again drop -- a vacuum is not a good conductor. Another point is that there is no upper bound to the atmosphere. The density of the gas drops exponentially but never reaches zero.
I don't have time to make changes, but hopefully this feedback is useful to someone.
Justin Hannigan
In the United States Patent Office classification, the main classification is 310/308 Electrical Generator or Motor / Charge accumulating. Other applicable classes regarding atmospheric electricity include:
American
Other
J. D. Redding 18:35, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
A real 18th century flavor to the descriptions here...needs a rewrite. I don't think "atmospheric electricity" is a very modern classification at all, and we have a lot of really elderly creaky references here. -- Wtshymanski ( talk) 01:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
In my opinion this is a shameful and misleading article, cobbled from old references to antique instruments such as "gold leaf electroscope" as a method of measuring electric charge. Rather than being edited, this article needs to be replaced by one that is reasonably up-to-date and competently written. it's very existence reflects badly on Wiki! Edfredkin ( talk) 06:19, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
I thoroughly agree that this article is thoroughly inconsistent in its presentation of *very* historical theories and exceedingly old data intermixed with what one assumes to be modern content. As a general encyclopedic page, most of the historical references are unnecessary. Only that which is generally accepted current science should be presented outside a specific and limited **History** section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinchudgar ( talk • contribs) 05:52, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
I added a cleanup tag. The article is obfuscatingly verbose, and indeed uses a lot of obsolete 19th century knowledge. -- Centzon ( talk) 21:57, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
That doesn't sound right... If it was like that, wouldn't an exposed wire about a metre long hanging vertically shock anyone that touch it? -- TiagoTiago ( talk) 14:40, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, not really so. If the potential difference between the two ends of the cunductor is 100 volts (think 0 at one end 100 at the other)then the conductor will have a surface voltage of 50 volts. The reason you don't get a shock is that the effective source impedance is greater than 10,000 megOhms (actual value depends on humidity and other factors). So there is essentially no current sufficient to deliver a shock. Much longer wires will sometimes produce a spark that can be easily felt. However even here it is the spark (and heat shock wave + noise "splat") that you feel, not the current. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Maleny Neil (
talk •
contribs) 00:47, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
You have to understand voltage. Charge is constantly being exchanged between everything. A 12V battery if the positive end is taken as zero reads -12V. If the negative is taken as zero, then it is +12V. If a midway point is taken as zero, it is -6V one terminal and +6V the other. If that same battery is compared to earth, it may be -250 volts. Asking how much voltage it should have can never be answered without asking in relation to what. So how high is your voltage in relation to that piece if wire?
68.13.249.174 (
talk) 19:52, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
The scope of the article is unclear. "Atmospheric electricity" can be interpreted in a broad sense to include all electromagnetic phenomena that take place in the atmosphere, or in a much narrower sense, meaning just the global atmospheric electrical circuit (GAEC), or somewhere in between. At this point, the article is written in such a way that it is unclear what exactly is being discussed.
I think there are three viable purposes for this article:
So my proposal is this: to reduce this article to a quick overview of all atmospheric electrical phenomena, and create a new article dedicated to GAEC. Parts of the current article can be integrated in other articles as applicable (GAEC, history of electromagnetism, etc.).
What do you think? Good/bad, remarks, alternatives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Centzon ( talk • contribs) 00:19, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Heron and Centzon removal of information. Compare here. -- J. D. Redding 02:43, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
It is thought that with sufficient experience the formulas that have been deduced here, and illustrated, can be made to yield other valuable data regarding the atomic and subatomic activities which are concerned in the variations of the fundamental terms and their very numerous derivatives.[36]
What formulas? Illustrated? Where? Weaselly? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.130.27.187 ( talk) 09:33, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
This page gives a concept the Atmospheric electricity is cause of thunder. However, work is still being done on discovering the mechanism of thunder. Thus, this article should also demarcate difference between Atmospheric Electricity and Thunder.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Atmospheric electricity. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.dge.inpe.br/elat/hp2005_800/english/eletricidade_i.htmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:11, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Atmospheric electricity. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Atmospheric electricity. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:12, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Atmospheric electricity. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:39, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello, I'm just leaving this note here for a bit before I change anything, I'm planning to add a couple of citations to the Lead, Description, Near Space, and Earth-Ionosphere Cavity sections of this article. I will also add a comment on the fact that the term atmospheric electricity has a long history to the lead, since this article has a sizeable section on the history which isn't mentioned in the lead. I'm also planning to add some clarification to the lead and description section regarding the 100V/m number, since I see that there's been some discussion of it on this talk page in the past and I found another citation that gives the same number and explains it a bit. [1]
Smith4e4 ( talk) 18:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
References