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The very first line has incorrect spelling of "Civilization". It is pretty annoying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.118.224.225 ( talk) 02:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
It's a great shame more has not been said of Greek economy. The Greeks were fanatical about it!
A strong economy (workers, free resources, trade) and a true democracy certainly provided free time for the ancient's to indulge in societal, scientific, applied, and legal development.
A good question is: was this a purely a farming / trade feat? Did invention really play a role in free time or was it a positive distraction? What was their true success? Certainly not war - all writings I've seen the greeks digress from it.
Thank you, sven_nestle
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.227.219.179 ( talk) 14:45, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
An expert needs to check out the Ancient Greece article which has a VERY different date for when Ancient Greece came to an end. (Just call me a stirrer :-)).
Wouldn't it be better to merge History of Ancient Greece into Ancient Greece and History of Hellenistic Greece into Hellenistic Greece? Almost all the links point to the shorter titles, but almost all the content is in the longer ones. Most other national history articles have no distinction between the period and its history. - SimonP 16:17, Oct 15, 2004 (UTC)
Just to check it gives the dates as "BCE" and "CE" surely it should be BC and AD —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghtoy ( talk • contribs) 17:00, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
This section needs a major rewrite.
"After several years of inconclusive campaigning, the moderate Athenian leader Nicias concluded the Peace of Nicias (421)."
- The death of Cleon might have had something to do with this...
"Nicias was captured and Alcibiades went into exile."
- First problem: this makes it look like Nicias was captured, paraded through Sparta, given a nice farm in the western Peloponnese and died peacefully in his bed. Actually, the Syracusans put him to death (albeit against the wishes of Gylippus).
- Second problem: this makes it look like Alcibiades went into exile because of the failure of the expedition. No note is taken of the events of the night before the expedition set out (the mutilation of the Herms), the politicking surrounding those events, that Alcibiades was recalled to face trial before he ever reached Sicily, and that he went into exile, first in Sparta, then in Persian Asia Minor, to avoid death at the hands of his political enemies back in Athens.
- Third problem: no mention of the other general, Demosthenes.
- Another issue (which doesn't fit anywhere): no mention is made that the Sicilian Expedition lasted until 413 - reading the article makes it seem like it took place quickly over the Summer of 415.
"This was the turning point of the war."
- No it wasn't. Thucydides wants it to be (just look at how he structures his history), but it simply does not fit with historical evidence. Firstly, the war goes on for the best part of a decade after the failure of the Sicilian Expedition. Secondly, the Spartans failed to capitalise on the victory, allowing Athens vital time to rebuild her navy. Thirdly, Athens had the upper hand once Alcibiades had returned. Fourthly, that however badly the war was going, Athens could not lose unless she lost the ability to ship in grain, an ability not lost until the Battle of Aegospotami (where Alcibiades pops up again, telling them not to put their ships there...).
-Actually, the Sicilian Expedition is regarded by most historians as the turning point in the 27-year long Peloponesian War. In response to your points, it is quite obvious that had Athens not lost such an amount of man power (possibly 100000 men) or as many ships (possibly 250) or even the city's greatest general, Alkibiades, she would have won the war. Athens would have been guartenteed a quick victory over the rest of Sicily as well, seeing that Syracuse was the only formidable opponent on the whole island. The treasures in Sicily would have amounted to interminable grain amounts and the riches and man power of almost a whole country. For the tedious Pelopenesian War, this would have been quite a grab. You mention that the Spartans did not capitalise on the victory they did receive in Sicily. (It should be noted that the Spartans only sent one man-Gyllipus-to Syracuse. The victory was the Syracusans.)The Spartans are not a capitalising society. They do not possess the necessary mindset to win a victory and the reap the benefits of it. And to your third point, the Athenians never held the complete advantage ever again. She ended up scrounging for ships and was put to the mercy of Sparta's only effective general, Lysander. P.S. Don't undermine the histories of Thucydides.
"The loss of her fleet threatened Athens with bankruptcy."
- This is a rather anchronistic point of view.
"Within a few years the democratic party regained power in Athens and other cities."
- Nice gloss over the Thirty. Perhaps some more detail is due.
- More seriously, the division of Greek history between the 5th and 4th Centuries at 404 BC is rather outdated. The gap between the second and third parts of the Peloponnesian War* in 423 (or 421 if we're going on formalities) - 418 (or 415 if we're going on formalities) demonstrates that there were indeed gaps of several years in open hostilities. The gap between the third Peloponnesian War (418-404) and the Corinthian War (396-387/6) was arguably merely one of those lulls. The Athens-Sparta struggle was the major issue until the King's Peace of 387/6. Perhaps the section should be on the Peloponnesian Wars (including the Cornthian War).
- * there was a First Peloponnesian War 461-446.
Two comments:
1. Pederasty in ancient Greece. Obviously this is a controversial point (or will become one eventually), & while I'm aware of enough scholarly rumors that this (like homosexuality) was practiced far more openly in Classical times than now, I'm requesting that someone document the known facts about this. (All mentions of pederasty in pre-Medieval times that I can recall off the top of my head date much later than this period.)
And I'm very sceptical that pederasty was practiced to limit population growth. On the one hand, infant mortality, disease, warfare, & food insecurity were more than sufficient to keep population growth low (& I remember reading that when a city was overpopulated, the citizens would choose a number of colonists by lot, & send them off to found a new city). On the other hand, I doubt that the number of adults sexually attracted to children in ancient times was larger than it is now, & also doubt that the ancients practiced birth control to consciously limit population on a significant scale. I would need to see some evidence of that motivation.
2. Isn't the subject of Alexander's exploits irrelevant to this article? A brief account showing how it brought the Greece of the city states to an end, though, is relevant, but as the section now stands, it would be better moved to the article on Hellenistic Greece. -- llywrch 18:37, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I agree regarding pederasty, it is a disputed and speculative subject which is based on twisted interpretations taken out of context. Links from here to homosexual discussion pages are irrelevant and inappropriate.
Didn't the democracy end with a vote in -411? Then resinstated in -410 until -405, with Alcibiades's death in -404? -- Anonymous. 11:47, 25 Jan 2005
Exactly how is it possible that
Peloponnesian War is a featured article, yet the Peloponnesian War section of
Ancient Greece has a boilerplate for disputed facts? Truly, I am at a loss.
Eric
Herboso 03:20, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Isn't the punic war part of Greece? Or is it part of rome?
The Punic Wars were 3 battles fought between Rome and Carthage [in 500's AD??] over control of trade in the Mediterranean. The third war was the one between Hannibal, using elephants to cross the Alps and gain advantage of Rome, and Scipio, a great Roman general.
³wHAT KIND OF ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE IF YOU WERE A POLITICIAN DURING THE PERSIAN WARS? OR DURING DAILY DAYS IN GREECE? IN ATHENS?
-- 69.86.162.116 01:20, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)IN ATHENS, AN ASSEMBLY WAS HELD THREE OR FOUR TIMES A MONTH. POLICIES THAT ARE SUBMITTED TO THE ASSEMBLY WERE DECIDED ON BY THE COUNCIL, A GROUP OF 500 MEN. FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES, CITIZENS OF ATHENS WERE DIVIDED INTO TEN TRIBES. -- 69.86.162.116 01:20, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
ÁÝýÈÓòÙË&ĚßߌØÅøÆœ 69.86.162.116 01:20, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)éíÍÉúÀÂËöÇñßÐðþÞ³²°°01:20, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)~
Do not grafitti this Talk page and also dont write in all capitals. Turn Caps Lock off! Wizard 109109 ( talk) 22:34, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
"In Sparta, the landed artistocracy retained their power, and the constitution of Lycurgus (about 650) entrenched their power and gave Sparta a permanent militarist regime under a dual monarchy. Sparta dominated the other cities of the Peloponnese, and formed alliances with Corinth and Thebes."
No discussion of Spartan historical development can be made without reference to the conquest of the Messenians and the system of helotry. Someone, find a way to work this in! They have many way it can help you with projets. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.175.212.27 ( talk) 01:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Present day researchers ( PubMed, Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, H. 12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. For questions, please e-mail: [email protected]) analyzing the genetic heritage of Greeks and Macedonians have concluded:
That is a hoax you're reading. The actual Spanish research mentions nothing about any "Macedonians", and simply detects that ancient Greeks arrived in the Balkans by 2000 BC. The part about "Macedonians" and "Ethiopians" was added by Macedonian Slavic propagandists who made their own version of the research and spread it on the internet. So it's not an afro-centric view, it's a political propaganda. Miskin 09:36, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Not a hoax at all. A very recent study (2006) done by other scientists HLA genes in Southern Tunisians (Ghannouch area) and their relationship with other Mediterraneans. confirms the relatedness of the Greeks to sub-Saharans by calculating genetic distances at the DRB1 locus (this study, incidentally, and the Petlichkovski (2004) study, show that the Greek study is indeed cited by other scientists, and not merely northern European White Nationalists and Afrocentrists).
There is no such thing as a "Maceodnian" ethnicity or people. It is pure political propaganda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsourkpk ( talk • contribs) 20:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
The article on Greek literature is currently nominated on Wikipedia: This week's improvement drive. Vote for it there, if you want to support the article.-- Fenice 20:51, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
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Could somebody bring that section back? Why was it deleted?
(anonymous)
"Society" gave an intro to the section and "Social Structure" talked about slaves and different classes. "Way of Life" talked about the Greek home and daily life. Who deleted it? -- 24.247.126.44 16:59, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
could some one expand on this "The distinguishing features of Ancient Greek society were the division between free and slave, the differing roles of men and women, the relative lack of status distinctions based on birth, and the importance of religion. The way of life of the Athenians was common in the Greek world compared to Sparta's special system." especially the part about woman and importance of religion. P.S. Religion is mentioned one time in this article in the above sentence and "women" or "woman" is only mentioned once or twice more Thanks. ( 69.139.32.33 04:00, 20 December 2006 (UTC))
I agree with Wetman Wizard 109109 ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 22:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Did Alexander conquer Arabia ? No mention is given of that. He did conquer some parts like Mesopotamia and Persia, which are today Arab lands.
Red Hot Sheena| talk File:Hot chilli.jpg 04:07, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Before the Arab conquests in the 7th century AD (or as the Arabs prefer to call it The Arab-Islamic Liberation) Arabia was the Arab peninsula only. It begun on the land of the Navatean Arabs, that would be Jordan which was not part of Alexander's conquest. He did have a campaign to conquer Arab peninsula set to take place two days after his death Ikokki 21:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Could you explain how obviate is correct? The word obviate is a verb, meaning to avoid or go around. Wikt. def. In that sentence, (The obviate cause was the growing resentment of Sparta and its allies at the dominance of Athens over Greek affairs.) it is used as an adjective modifying cause and obvious (an adjective) makes much more grammatical sense. Just a friendly question. psch e mp | talk 17:31, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Aren't the third and fourth paragraphs about the dates for various periods somewhat contradicting? -- Simonf 01:32, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
The intro says this period lasted about a thousand years, but the timeline on the side says it lasted 453 years.
--- "Ancient greece existed only for 900000000 years". Someone who knows how long it actually lasted should fix this. 129.97.22.140 20:47, 30 January 2007 (UTC)Rahul
What are all of the languages of Greece?
Years are NOT fixed. The chronology in this article still contradicts itself. The first paragraph says Ancient Greece ends in 404 BC; whereas the first paragraph under Chronology says it ends in the 6th century (529 AD). The author or someone with more knowledge on this subject should make an edit. Beaumam ( talk) 22:53, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
An editor recently removed the two entries in the bibliography section, leaving an edit summary of "Deleted link for being misleading". I've restored the two entries, but if they are misleading it would be best to discuss the reasons for that here. Robotman 1974 01:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
While ancient Greece may be loosely termed Classical Greece, the phrase “Classical Greece” or “Classical period” (in Greece) has the very specific meaning of c. 480 to 323 BCE in the fields of Archaeology and Art History. I have noted that there are small articles on the Archaic period in Greece or Hellenistic (period), but that the link Classical period in Greece is redirected to this article. This is a most unfortunate circumstance as the concept of this period as a precise timeframe is in wide use in professional discussions of the art, architecture, and history of Greece. I would strongly urge that this be rectified and that all of the periods be standardized under the format (X period in Greece), including: Orientalizing, Geometric, Archaic, Classical, and (perhaps) Hellenistic. Each of these articles should contain a discussion of the relevant architectural developments, pottery techniques, and brief historical overview - with reference to major archaeological sites and finds. Ideas? -- Nefasdicere 19:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
io:Antiqua Grekia. Thanks io:User:Joao Xavier —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.0.66.236 ( talk) 10:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC).
In the first paragraph: "There are no fixed or universally agreed upon the date of your death for the beginning or the end of the Ancient Greek period." In the second paragraph, date referred to is 2007AD. In the third paragraph, Alexander the Great is referred to as "Alexander the Fat Head". Heatherstory 20:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Should not we say something about paideia in the following paragraph? And about the Olympics? And the Eleusinian mysteries? Those, according to Pausanians (and Jaeger), and not any of the stuff below, were the true distinguishing features.
The distinguishing features of Ancient Greek society were the division between free and slave, the differing roles of men and women, the relative lack of status distinctions based on birth, and the importance of religion. The way of life of the Athenians was common in the Greek world compared to Sparta's special system.
Haiduc 01:47, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
What exactly linked the various people of Ancient Greece? For most of their history they have been separated into city states, with little national or central government. How did they socially and politically identify each other as Greeks? -- Ted87 06:49, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
So how was it determined who was Greek? If it was mere identity couldn't one city state claim a another people Greek, but another city state deem that they're not? Was the Olympic Games an official crowning? -- Ted87 06:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Amazing. Thanks. -- Ted87 05:42, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Applesnpeaches (
talk) 02:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC) That's not exactly true since both Alexander and his father Philip had partaken int he Olympic games. from memory I think his father won in the Chariot race. Phil = friend of, Ippos = Horse. Perhaps it was prophectic that he should win...
Here's a quote of Herodotus (Greek Historian)
"XXII. Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, AS THEY THEMSELVES SAY, I MYSELF CHANCE TO KNOW AND WILL PROVE IT in the later part of my history. Furthermore, the Hellenodicae who manage the contest at Olympia determined that it is so, [2] for when Alexander chose to contend and entered the lists for that purpose, the Greeks who were to run against him wanted to bar him from the race, saying that the contest should be for Greeks and not for foreigners. Alexander, however, proving himself to be an Argive, was judged to be a Greek. He accordingly competed in the furlong race and tied step for first place. This, then, is approximately what happened."
Applesnpeaches (
talk) 02:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
This article has nothing about Ancient Greek women. How they were treated, what they dressed like, what they did in freetime, and lots of other things could be included in this article that aren't.
I understand that when we refer to Western Culture we are speaking about both Europe and the Americas. But my problem with this article is the beginning, "Ancient Greece is generally considered to be the seminal culture which provided the foundation of Western Civilization." I disagree because everything the Greeks started was already in use in Ancient Egypt. I agree if the article read "It is generally considered to be the seminal culture which provided the enhancement of Western Civilization created by Ancient Egypt." At this time I don't have any concrete proof but i am working on it.
I'm curious as to why this article is semi-protected. I can't find anywhere that states a reason, nor is it tagged with a reason in the protection template. -- Matthew 18:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
A point of reasoning I hope: is it not possible that one civilization could have been trained by another, and then "improve" on their ideas, or at least proceed with them in another direction? It does seem reasonable that developing a concept involving a "rule of the many," or "democracy," could follow the "rule of just one human being," as in a theocracy... This would make sense if the theocracy seemed particularly unjust, and misguided. Plsexplain ( talk) 19:46, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
AncestryByDNA, using autosomal markers, mentions that the average Greek/Italian type with approximately 5% sub-Saharan genetic material and is the highest in Europe with Iberia (6.6%). By comparaison Euro-americans get 3% and Northern European < 1 %. Even though in some cases with respect to certain population groups, for an individual, a low reading such as this may be negated by the confidence interval, in south european countries low levels of sub-Saharan admixture are consistenly found, making them signature results for these populations. This means they are not stastical "noise," but true results.
As a high school student, it seems that Athens and Sparta are considered separately in most textbooks and think Wikipedia should consider doing the same. I think that putting the history of Athens, usually associated with the Golden Age of Greece, and Sparta, usually associated with a constant state of war, in one article makes the article confusing and difficult to follow. Separating it would make it easier to find information and make the article as a whole more reasonable. Potato dude 21:40, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
It's too big for its own good. The end result is that it contains a ton of information, but most of it is unsourced, NPOV, possibly repetitive, etc. A rewrite may be a good idea. W1k13rh3nry 01:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Seriously. Some passages read like they were written by American 5th graders. I know for a fact that American schoolteachers encourage their students to write in Wikipedia, and since Ancient Greece is a favorite topic in the American school curriculum, this seems to be the end result. There so many literally infantile and inane sentences that they are too numerous to mention. Here's one such "gem", from the "Living" subsection:
The Greeks lived around the sea and they could develop there because of trading with near countries and islands. Trade was very important in their life. They also lived between mountains but the mountains blocked a way of trading with near cities.
This is also evident from the discussion section, which contains simplistic questions like "What were ancient greek people like?" and similar inane crap. It seems to me that this article has been badly neglected by professional Classicists, while in the meantime hordes of school age students have run amok all over it. It is in need of a major cleanup and overhaul at the very least. It also is by far the most frequently vandalized article on my watchlist.-- Tsourkpk ( talk) 00:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Γειά σου Aθηναίε. I'm glad to see you agree with me. This article is arguably one of the most important ones for Greek civilization, and it should be top-notch. It is a real shame it has been so badly neglected. Unfortunately I am also not a Classicist and it seems this article is in such bad condition that it will be a MAJOR effort to improve its quality. I am not a particularly experienced Wikipedian, but I like the approach you mention. I am not sure whether to go for a single long essay or something broken into subsections, although I lean toward the former. I propose bringing it up for discussion in Wikiproject Greece, to get other people interested. Either you can do that or I can. -- Tsourkpk ( talk) 01:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
yes, this is a classical candidate for a WP:SS article. It doesn't need to be brilliant, it needs to be well a organized index and a competent, unexcited overview. Invest your brilliance in the various sub-articles. At present, it certainly isn't great, but it is better than it used to be. It could do with more loving attention to be sure but's every editor's own decision where they invest their time. There are certainly also many important sub-articles that would badly need competent attention. dab (𒁳) 09:46, 21 November 2007 (UTC) ogy, language, ans so on and so on. athinaios 22:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
This article covers "Ancient Greece", viz., 8th to 2nd centuries BC. There can be the briefest of references to Proto-Greek, " The coming of the Greeks" ( origins of the Greeks?), Helladic period, Mycenaean Greece and Greek Dark Ages for context, but these topics are ostensibly not within the article scope. dab (𒁳) 11:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
that's right. It will be WP:SS in any case. I also think the "Athenian bias" is overstated. My comment was referring to the "Origins" section dabbling in deep prehistory, Proto-Greek and the "Greek genome". These topics do not belong here, a link to Prehistoric Greece and Greeks must suffice. dab (𒁳) 11:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, let's consider topic categories: I suppose the obvious broad categories are Literature, Theatre, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Mathematics, Politics, and Military. Of these, we cover... um... maybe Military, though not well.
Dooooomed! Adam Cuerden talk 20:02, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
This sounds good. It boils down to mostly fleshing out and trimming the existing article structure. Mythology should be summarized in a "religion and mythology" section, with {{ main}} articles Ancient Greek religion, Greek mythology, Hellenistic religion and Hellenistic magic. dab (𒁳) 13:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I am removing the ref to the Minoans in the overview since they were not a Greek people but a separate (according to Britannica Anatolian) IE people. The Greeks of Homer's time called their descendants Eteocretans, the "Real" Cretans to distinguish them from the Greeks. Xenovatis ( talk) 13:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Minoan Civilization
The Cretan civilization, named later by the archeologist sir Arthur Evans as Minoan civilization (3000 BC - 1100 BC) after the legendary legislator and King of Knossos Minoa, is probably the most important civilization that flourished in the Bronze Age. During this period the Greek civilization gets into a new stage having a faster pace of development and traces a glorious course.
Crete's privileged position in the entire Mediterranean space made the island develop into a strong naval force. Minoan ships would travel in the Aegean Sea from the Western coasts of Asia Minor until Palestine and Egypt. Situated in the crossroad of three continents, it has been the point where all currents and great civilization met as the Mesopotamian and the Egyptian ones. The Cretan civilization assimilated all influences, elaborated and finally transformed them and produced the unique Minoan civilization model - civilization that established new ways of life and new concepts in terms of art, aesthetics and human spirit. "In this place' - Nikos Kazantzakis writes in his book "Report to Greco' - "the soul of Greece has executed its inevitable mission: it brought the divine to the scale of human. The enormous, still Egyptian or Assyrian statues, here in Crete, have changed and became small and cute. Body has moved, mouth has smiled and the face and stature of God became that of man.
The Minoan civilization reached its greatest heights approximately in 1700 BC The variety of findings of that period certifies the existence of a society of a very developed civilization, a civilization extremely advanced, open to foreign influences. The miracle of Minoan civilization is a synthesis on the one hand of technical specialization, an art of unique beauty and sophisticated architectural works and on the other hand of social organization, a variety of religious rituals, science and commercial relations with the most advanced peoples of the Eastern World. The total lack of defense systems in the centers of Minoan civilization, which exist in other areas of Greece, is of a particular interest. It is a fact that has been interpreted on the basis of the famous "Minoan peace' that guaranteed the safety of civilization. The long lasting peace established according to this system, firmly supports the economy and culture of the island to thrive.
Minoans, apart from developing a great art and a strong economic activity, invented as well a system of writing named Linear A' because it consisted of linear symbols. The Minoan writing was of eastern origin, yet, the form we know is a particular Cretan invention and adaptation. This Cretan pro - alphabetical writing form is in fact the first writing in Europe. The Disc of Festus, the most ancient written monument of Minoan Crete found in the palace of Festus in 1098 AD, represents this system of writing which similarly to the ancient hieroglyphics has not been decodified until today. Nevertheless, researchers converge into that such writing was used for keeping commercial transaction records and registering countries and objects, not for describing abstract ideas. Except for writing, Crete was the region in Europe where first appeared systematic forms of knowledge management, namely exact sciences' applications such as the metric systems, mathematics and geometry, fields in which Minoans proved their perfect knowledge by constructing glorious architectural works - the palaces in the centers of Knossos, Festus, Xacros and Malia.
The violent eruption of the volcano in the neighboring island of Thera at the end of the 16th century BC caused massive catastrophes in Crete as well. The Minoan palace suffered extensive damages and entire cities and cultivations vanished. Cretan communities soon recovered but this revival was abruptly interrupted in 1450 BC by a second flood of catastrophes caused by a new torrential earthquake. Populations from Argolida that controlled the biggest part of the Cyclades after the first eruption took advantage of the lack of power that this physical catastrophe had caused and invaded the island imposing thus a new political system. This was the last page of the glorious Minoan civilization and the first one of another equally important that remained in history by the name of Mycenaean civilization. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.167.52.19 ( talk) 08:06, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
I was going to WP:BRD that section but I think it should be discussed. I believe
1. The description form a Greek student based on Greek school textbooks should be substituted with one from a WP:RS. 2, The image be moved to the section below. Thanks for your inputs. Xenovatis ( talk) 14:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Why is Hades under "other significant being" in the mythology section? Shouldn't it be under the Olympians? -- E123 ( talk) 18:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
This article does seem to have become a lot better; and is much more useful as a page to navigate around the various topics. I have added a warfare sub-section within the society section - mainly to link to articles describing the way in which the Greeks made war, rather than the military history. I am also going to change the 'Ancient Greek Assembly' sub-section to 'Government'. The current sub-section describes only the Athenian assembly (though referring to it as 'Ancient Greek'), and is completely out of place. I will replace it with a short description of types of government seen in ancient greece, linking to all the appropriate articles. If any one has any comments, please let me know! MinisterForBadTimes ( talk) 16:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I got a bit carried away, and I've edited quite a lot of it now. I mainly want to bring the coverage to the same depth all round, rather than having lots of detail in some places, and none in others. I shall keep going... MinisterForBadTimes ( talk) 17:25, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
"Athens suffered a land and agrarian crisis in the late 7th century, again resulting in civil strife. The Archon (chief magistrate) Draco made severe reforms to the law code in 621 BC (hence Draconian), but these failed to quell the conflict. Eventually the moderate reforms of Solon (594 BC), !-- Is this concept excerpted from the Scholastic Weekly Reader you used in grade school? This is a misrepresentation of the historical record. It may have been appropriate for grade school knowledge of history but is not appropriate for adult learning. This needs to be revised to a current level of understanding. -- improving the lot of the poor, but firmly entrenching the aristocracy in power, gave Athens some stability."
MinisterForBadTimes ( talk) 14:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
See talk:Ancient Greece/Old page history and talk:Ancient Greece/Old talk page history for the history of the Ancient Greece page before October 2004, when this article was at the title History of Ancient Greece. Graham 87 11:12, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
so how do i make this not so boring? to a point that i can actually read it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.216.200.185 ( talk) 12:27, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
The social structure section is almost entirely about slaves and different slave status. Arguably there's enough material there for a new subsection, "Slaves in Ancient Greece". What the section does *not* do is adequately address the rest of Greek society at the time; what were the different social classes? Which professions belonged to each? How was mobility between them formalized in the city-state, when someone "upgraded" through financial gain? What were the rights and privileges of each social class, and what was their power relationship vis-a-vis each other? Glacialfury ( talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 00:45, 12 November 2008 (UTC).
{{ editsemiprotected}} "The Parthenon is the one of the most representative ..." should be "The Parthenon is one of the most representative ..."
ancient greece can be very inspiring to people who like history ,and like to find out how serten rules we have these days .Ancient greek time, people relyed on serten gods and goddess .Their were over 70 gods and goddess ,but only 5 gods you could belive in .Som people broke this rule. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.93.88 ( talk) 15:55, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
The greek culture is considered the crucible of western civilization because of many aspects of there culture and the culture of the western world now a days (AMERICA).The biggest similarity between ancient greece and the United states is that we use a very similar form of democracy virtualy identical but there are differences. While the greeks used democracy they used a different form from what we use today, they used a direct democracy a democracy where everyone could vote and the majority won. We now use in America a Representative democracy where we vote for the people who have similar beliefs and they get to vote for new laws to go through the house of representatives and eventually passed or rejected. In America it is virtauly impossible to have a direct democracy simply because the population is to large.Other similarities between ancient Greece and America today is that they both have founding fathers in greece they had Solon (Athenian official) who formed a new code of law that defined citizens by class and spelled out the rights and duties of each class (594 B.C) . Easily compared to one of our founding fathers john adams who signed the declaration of independence and once America had its independence he was George washingtons right hand guy and once he became the president he stressed civic values.
Picture of Solon athenian(here)
Picture of John Adams(here)
In ancient greece they also had many of the same careers that we have today such as acting,athletes,banker,blacksmith(welder),craftmen(construction worker),doctor,farmer,fisherman,market trader,miners,teachers,infantryman,law enforcement and there are many others. Ancient greece helped to study many things we do today as well like astronomy and math and science and even medicine for ancient greece was at the time a great improvement because before this point it was very common belief that the gods decided whether you got sick or not. This is proven even in sparta were often times the child would die in the first couple of days and it was so common that in sparta it was common to wait 10 days after the birth of there child before even naming the child.
The most common thing to use to see whether are culture was base on theirs is to look at are values such as religion and even though in America the most pre-dominant religion is christianity and even in the whole world the most pre-dominant religions believe in a person or god in human form which is very common today but before very far back people believed in objects. One of the even more relevant features we can use to compare ancient Greece to America today is that in ancient greek culture there was a sense of competition and just like in ancient greece we have the olympics where countries from all over the world send there best althletes to compete for the gold which is the equivalent of the reef they would recieve in greece.Even though are are religions are different and even are competitions have different motives ($$$$$$$$$$$$) and are democracies are not the same we can see that they are very similar and more than just a coinincedence. Western civilization may not be the exact same as ancient greece but there is no denying that they are the "Crucible" of Western Civilization.
Paper written by:Conner lee Malrose Email- [email protected] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.117.34.194 ( talk) 00:29, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
zues is father of all greek gods wich one do you think has the most power besides zeus??? ~B.J.~ I think Gaia has the most power. ~B.J.~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.244.118 ( talk) 01:22, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
—Preceding unsigned comment added by The Transhumanist ( talk • contribs)