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I am deeply troubled by the title of this article (so as other China related articles). Previously, Jiang, eloquently gave me a lession on the difference between country and state. Country is mainly mentioned in a geographic context; whereas state has more implication on the sovereignty.
Now, the title here is a geographic entity which does not have sovereignty as a state. China can not have political divisions. PRC has the sovereignty and has the power to assign political divisions.
If we can have an article like political divisions of China over a geographical entity, how come people do not create political divisions of balkan or political divisions of Caribbean? Can China have political division? Does China has sovereignty? I believe the most correct and neutral title is the political division of PRC. The same quesion applies on the article Province of China. Mababa 07:02, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I believe the aritcle Provinces of Korea would be able to give us some enlightment on how to properly handle this problem. Korea used to be a state-country and it did have provinces. However, current Korea, as a country, is divided into north and south Korea states. Therefore, the political division of each states are wiki-linked to separate articles. I suggest we can either emulate their strategy and convert this article into a historical introduction; or we can change the title to PRC's political division. Certainly, Taiwan and other disputed areas should definately be listed as part of PRC so as she claims. However, ROC should be isolated from being listed together with PRC, unless we take the position to assume they are not only the same country but also the same state. Mababa 05:21, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Dear Wang123, Thank you so much for your kind words and also thank you for your support on my proposal. Actually, I am new to Wiki myself, too. I do not have any clout either. :) However, I believe that having legitimate reason is probably more important than having strong clouts. Everyone's opinions counts. I am certainly awared of the possibility not being able to garner much support on this proposal. However, there are many people at the administrative level who not only are open minded but also are willing to reason/discuss in this community. As long as we can discuss and reason, I do not particularly insist nor am I too worried. Many thanks to your warm comment. :) I wish you have a nice day. Mababa 04:08, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I will first response shortly here and I think I will have a longer response later. In short, if a political entity "China" does exist as you suggested, which state do Wikipedia and the article "Political divisions of China" reward the title to? Mababa 05:49, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your response, Jiang. However, I would like to say that your reply makes me more worried about the neutrality and accuracy on this article.
Let's shortly review the political NPOV policy of Wiki:
If I interpret correctly, you have introduced two contradictory ideas to justify listing both PRC and ROC under a state name called China in this article.
1)When people say "China", they usually mean the People's Republic of China.
Since people are looking for articles pertinent for PRC under the title of China, therefore we should indirectly equate China with PRC so that westerners can find information on PRC, something they are looking for.
Certainly, in the reality out side of the Wikipedia, the general public equates PRC with China and ROC with Taiwan. However, this is the value out side of the Wikipedia. In Wiki, I thought the policy is keeping neutral on topics such as whether Taiwan is part of China, or whether ROC is part of PRC. In this way, people from both side do not get information bias against their position and also the general public would well informed on the position from different perspects. I am sure that you know this better than I do.
To begin with, the reason to keep this article with PRC and ROC listed together is already biased with the mindset equating PRC with China. Listing ROC together with PRC under a same political entity China, not only failed to treat ROC as a sovereign country but also indirectly endorsed the idea that Taiwan ruled by ROC is part of China (a political entity commonly percieved as PRC). I think it is obviously not inline with the NPOV policy of the Wikipedia which does not make China as a political entity nor imply Taiwan to be part of China/PRC. By keeping the curent title, we are mixing the value from Wiki with perception outside of Wiki.
Thus, we should distinct the single political entity of China (if there is any) from PRC or ROC. Unless, we should change the NPOV policy and start to separate out the political entity of China and equate it with the entity of PRC.
2)The political entity of China should be rewarded to both PRC and ROC
Therefore, you suggest that both ROC and PRC should be rewarded as China (an entity commonly percieved as PRC), to circumvent the situation endorsing the idea: Taiwan ruled by ROC to be part of PRC by generously also granting ROC the title China.
Again, this is something not in line with the Chinese NPOV policy: not to coincide China with any political sovereign state or government.
Further, this is something people from PRC's perspective would strongly oppose because you are endorsing the idea of "Two China", a situation PRC opposes in various occasions. For example, Joint Communique of the United States of America and the People's Republic of China August 17, 1982 states: The United States Government attaches great importance to its relations with China, and reiterates that it has no intention of infringing on Chinese sovereignty and territorial integrity, or interfering in China's internal affairs, or pursuing a policy of "two Chinas" or "one China, one Taiwan." I think I do not need to elaborate on their point of view. Claiming there is TWO CHINA is a big No No for the PRC government.
Moreover, since this position is elaborated from the position 1)general public equates China=PRC. Even if we grant ROC with the title China, the title would still carry the the implication PRC=China and therefore PRC=China>=ROC. This is still a POV.
Lastly, I am not quite sure if any side across the strait would be happy to see ROC to be called China. Certainly not PRC. With only 10~20% of Taiwanese residents prefer unification, probably >80% of Taiwanese residents would not be delighted by your generous offer calling them as China either. Mababa 06:53, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your comment, Instantnood. I do agree that the historical aspects of the administrative divisions of China should be the focus of the article under this current title "Political divisions of China." This is actually why the article Provinces of Korea is being introduced here as a potential model for us.
However, I still object listing administrative divisions of PRC and ROC together under the current title "Political divisions of China." Conventional wisdom tells us that PRC is commonly being equated as China in the public mass media and that ROC is commonly equated as Taiwan.
Due to the situation where Wikipedia does not endorse neither against Taiwan as part of China or as an independent country, the term "Taiwan" is not used as a political entity in Wikipedia as part of the NPOV policy. Simultaneously, the term "China" not to coincide with any particular sovereign state or government. Thus, the political entity called China does not exist in Wikipedia. Otherwise, the political entity called Taiwan should be pervasively used to replace ROC government as the public mass media do.
Ran did a good job in segregating PRC and ROC in the article. It is the title confering China to be a political entity troubling. No matter how we carefully treat this title, the political entity "China" would always regared by the pulic as the PRC. Listing administrative levels of PRC together with ROC under a political entity called "China," is not only political incorrect, but also failed to treat ROC as an sovereign state as the Chinese political NPOV convention stipulated. So as Jiang eloquantly said: "we're making the implication that Taiwan is part of China much more obvious." Puting PRC and ROC together under this title constitutes a clear POV. Furthermore, if we failed to call the current title a POV, then you and I will be forcing Wikipedia to endorse the PRC's position :"There is only one China in the world. Both the Mainland and Taiwan belong to one China. [2]" This is probably not acceptible in Wikipedia.
Unless the Chinese naming convention/political NPOV policy is changed to allow the term "China" to be used as a political entity as the common usage refering to the PRC, the term "China" should not be used as a political entity. On the otherhand, if such change is made, the term "Taiwan" should simultaneously be used as a political entity as well. Until that day comes, the current NPOV policy should consistantly be upheld in all China-related articles. The term "China" should be treated as a geographical territory with a history covering Mongolia, Korea and perhaps Vietnam.
In my opinion, the best way to treat the article is what anon previously suggested, make the Political divisions of China to be a disambig page leading people to the article on political divisions of the Republic of China, Hong Kong, Macao, and Mongolia respectively. Of course the historical background should always be added as you suggested. Readers should also be well informed of the Political status of Taiwan when ROC is mentioned here. Quite many people in Taiwan does not regard ROC administration legitimate and we should avoid making an article biased against them too.
BTW, I have briefly glanced through the article Geography of China, I do not see any reason why it can not be moved to XYZ of PRC. The current setting looks more like a political entity to me. Should that China be a geographic territory, it should also include mongolia. Perhaps someone can help me understand what is the China being refered there. Mababa 04:30, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for your response. However, your proposal has yet solved by question: China should not be used as a political entity to trap ROC into it. This is what the convention requires us to enforce and follow. I am also certain that the article of
History of the political divisions of China can be merged into current article without a problem. Your proposal still maks China as a political entity and also ROC to be part of it. I am not sure if the problem would be solve in your proposed senario.
Two comments on your response:
The current situation does not make Taiwan to be part of China. By analogy in your logic, we can say Iraq is par of US. Moreover, without political implication, even call Taiwan is part of geographic of China is questionable. No matter how careful Taiwan/ROC is being mentioned in a context of China, the readers should always be made aware of the debate on the political status of Taiwan to make that article neutral.
Therefore you are suggesting a article making "both ROC and PRC to be part of China" neutral? I am sure that many people would tell us straight that it is a POV. Mababa 04:32, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
While the naming conventions forbids using PRC synonymously with China, it does allow ambiguity. Although we cant assign "China" to any single political entity, this doesnt prevent there to be political entities within China, as is indeed the case. As such, it is not illogical to talk about the political divisions within China. NPOV is not openly declaring there is no political entity that is synonymous with China--that is a POV. NPOV is to say what each party believes, whether there is an entity synonymous with China and what it is.
We did not declare here that Taiwan is part of the PRC. We notably separated it from the table of provinces and give it its own section as the "Disputed province". (note that Jhongsing Village and not Taipei is listed as the capital of the province...counterclaims should be mentioned) We also did not declare that China refers to the PRC (in fact, due to the repeated mentions of the ROC, we implied otherwise). We also separated the ROC municipalites from the PRC municipalities in different tables. Given how we've attributed each division and factoid separately to its relevant entity, it is clear that we are in line with the guidelines of treating the ROC and PRC as separate and sovereign entities with "equal status". (the guidelines are running into POV, in my opinion, but since you cited them...) We did not decribe Taiwan to be the PRC and in NPOV speak, outlined the various claims on Taiwan's sovereignty. Therefore, I don't think we violated the Chinese naming conventions anywhere in the article and by the current setup.
I see two problems with the current setup: 1) we imply that the Republic of China is alive and functional by repeated mentions of its current divisions, counter to PRC claims that it has fallen defunct since 1949 and 2) we imply that both the PRC and ROC are part of China by mentioning both. The first is unavoidable since there is a government called the ROC that functions with these divisions. The only remedy is to mention under "Disputed province" the PRC's divisions for Taiwan--that is, what they were in 1949 just as we've mentioned that the ROC's divisions for the mainland are what they were in 1949. The second can perhaps be remedied by what your propose, but I think it will still create more problems than what it's worth. We will still need to mention Taiwan due to the PRC claim. However, if we mention the PRC's assigned divisions or whatnot, we'll still have to mention the ROC's divisions as informative NPOV. This puts us back to what we have now for an article and brings your assertion that we're implying the ROC is part of the PRC closer to reality.
I find the current setup much more useful due to the same historical devlopment of both the ROC and PRC. The current system really displays a lot of parallels since they are from the same root. Pointing out these parallels would be lost if we carried out your proposal. Putting in a disambiguation page does not solve point two described above since you're still linking to the ROC divisions as one of the possible options. This makes it more POV since it gives equal coverage to both the PRC and ROC when we would otherwise, by the virtue of size and importance, focus on the mainland. This is countereffective and carries any POV implications further. If we left out the link, then we imply that China=PRC and that is unacceptable. The situation is very hairy and I think what we have is the best alternative, though no alternative is perfect. -- Ji ang 11:34, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
"Special administrative regions are not within the administrative divisions structure of the People's Republic of China as according to Article 30 of the Constitution of the PRC. "
Article 30 of the constitution says no such thing. It is clearly not an exhaustive list, since it does not include prefectures, leagues, banners, autonomous banners, forestry areas, sumuns, ethnic sumuns, etc. either.
On the other hand, Article 12 of the Hong Kong Basic Law states that:
"The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall be a local administrative region of the People's Republic of China, which shall enjoy a high degree of autonomy and come directly under the Central People's Government."
And Article 12 of the Macau Basic Law states that:
"The Macao Special Administrative Region shall be a local administrative region of the People's Republic of China, which shall enjoy a high degree of autonomy and come directly under the Central People's Government."
-- ran ( talk) 15:58, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)
No, "設區的市" or "較大的市" are prefecture-level cities. Prefectures are nowhere to be found. Moreover, the constitution does not explicitly allow prefecture-level cities to contain county-level cities. This happens anyways. Clearly the constitution is not exhaustive in this matter.
Also, how do you explain article 12 of HK's and Macau's basic laws? -- ran ( talk) 20:08, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)
Since Article 30 obviously doesn't have the final say on this matter, what is the point of quoting it as the one and only authoritative source of what constitutes or does not constitute an administrative entity of the PRC? Also, please explain: "Local administrative region" is not necessarily within the structure (Article 30).. What is your definition of an "administrative structure", such that a given administrative entity of a country can actually be not found in that country's administrative structure? Isn't that a contradiction? -- ran ( talk) 22:33, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)
This is a loaded question. It is clear that Article 30 is not an exhaustive specification of the PRC's administrative division system. -- ran ( talk) 00:52, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
The words that I have added do not comment on whether Article 30 is exhaustive. Yes they do. You imply that because SARs aren't mentioned in Article 30, they aren't part of the administrative structure.
Besides, if SARs aren't part of the administrative structure of the PRC, then what are they, I wonder? --
ran (
talk) 04:40, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
Let's step back for a moment. Imagine that in the article
Zingelia, about a country called the Federated Republic of Zingelia, I came across the following sentence:
Autonomous ethnic republics are not within the administrative divisions structure of the Federated Republic of Zingelia as according to Article 49 of the Constitution of Zingelia.
Don't you think that I, or any other reader, would come to the following conclusions? :
Don't you think that it is perfectly expected for the reader to come to the above conclusions based on what he / she reads?
If, however, Article 49 is not the only thing in the Zingelian constitution about this matter; if Article 50 goes straight on to talk about Autonomous ethnic republics; if, in fact, the constitution of
Davadaria, a Zingelian Autonomous Ethnic Republic, says explicitly that "Davadaria shall be a local administrative region of Zingelia"; don't you think we would be misleading the reader somewhat? --
ran (
talk) 05:39, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
One cannot rule out the possibility that they are indeed two different systems of the same State. So you do agree that SARs are part of the administrative structure of the PRC? -- ran ( talk) 14:56, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
The only evidence are the articles 12 of the basic laws of Hong Kong and Macao. -- Instantnood, those are the constitutions of Hong Kong and Macau. How could you possibly use the word "only" in this context?
Both don't tell whether they belong to any system or structure, and therefore there is not enough information to tell. -- okay, tell me. What do you understand by the following phrase: "the administrative divisions structure of the PRC". Don't you agree that by definition alone, all administrative divisions of the PRC, no matter how diverse or special, belong to this system?
This is getting ridiculous. "Yes, this fruit is a type of apple, but it's not part of the apple species". --
ran (
talk) 17:01, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
What more evidence do you need? I've given you the friggin constitutions of Hong Kong and Macau. Do you need the divine word of God to convince you?!
I've already repeatedly shown that Article 30 is not fully exhaustive in this matter! Article 30 says nothing about prefectures, district public offices, or villager and community committees. It does not list leagues, banners, forestry areas and special areas by name. And it does not allow municipalities or prefecture-level cities to oversee county-level cities. Yet these things happen anyways. Clearly we should look at if something is actually a subdivision of the PRC rather than dig around Article 30 to see if it's named specifically.
The fruit calls itself an apple!!!! It may be a very special apple that is green all the time, and may belong to a different subspecies of apple. But it is an apple!!! Since it is a type of apple, it is part of the apple species!!
I'm sorry, instantnood, but this debate is getting to a level of absurdity that no sane human being can tolerate. I recommend that this matter be brought to the attention of
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Instantnood. --
ran (
talk) 20:09, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)
Are prefectures part of the administrative structure of China, Instantnood? -- ran ( talk) 01:03, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
What about changing the wordings in this way?
" [[Special administrative region]]s (特別行政區/特别行政区 tèbiéxíngzhèngqū) (SARs) are local administrative regions enjoying a high degree of autonomy under the [[One country, two systems]] arrangement, and come directly under the [[Central People's Government]], as provided in the articles 12 of both [[Basic Law of Hong Kong|basic laws]] of the two SARs.
" Unlike provinces, autonomous regions and municipalities, which legal bases were provided in the Article 30 of the [[Constitution of the People's Republic of China|1982 Constitution]] that governs administrative divisions, special administrative regions were provided for in the Article 31, in anticipation of the retrocession of Hong Kong and Macau. They were established in 1997 and 1999 in Hong Kong and Macau respectively when the sovereignty of the two entities were transferred from the [[United Kingdom]] to the People's Republic of China.
" The two special administrative regions come directly under the Central People's Government. As opposed to other provincial-level administrative divisions (provinces, municipalities and autonomous regions), SARs reserve much bigger autonomy, with their own [[Court of Final Appeal|courts of final appeal]], [[legal system]]s, [[passport]]s, [[currency|currencies]], [[custom]]s control, [[immigration]] policies, [[extradition]], etc., except [[diplomacy|diplomatic relations]] and [[national defence]]. The SARs participated in various international organisations and sport events as separate members/teams from the PRC. " — Insta ntnood 08:20, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. — Insta ntnood 14:27, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
No where in the 1982 Constitution, or in the basic laws of Hong Kong and Macao, says special administrative regions are province level divisions. — Insta ntnood 08:22, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
They send representatives to the National People's Congress in the same way as other province level divisions. Also, ISO 3166-2 treats them this way. -- ran ( talk) 17:12, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)
I've asked this question for you on Chinese Wikipedia. -- ran ( talk) 00:12, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC) Insta: can you find me anything that says autonomous regions and municipalities are province-level? Not implies, says. -- ran ( talk) 03:01, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC) Actually insta, can you define for me the term, "province-level division"? -- ran ( talk) 03:14, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
Why does Article 30 "mean it"? You can't just say that it "implies" it. Article 30 does not explicitly say, "autonomous regions are the same as provinces". In fact, laws elsewhere clearly tell us that autonomous regions have more power than provinces. So how can you say they're at the same level? -- ran ( talk) 14:57, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
I think before we ask whether something is "province-level", we need a clear definition of "province-level" that everyone can agree on. -- ran ( talk) 19:10, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
Expected. :-D But then there's something different between SARs and other province-level divisions in the way the constitution deals with them. — Insta ntnood 21:04, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
Umm...wouldn't it be more useful on the table to give the old Postal System Pinyin names for the provinces instead of (or in addition to) the pinyin name with accents? I mean, it is much more useful to know the old names, which one might come across in older books, or perhaps even now in some historical books, rather than the various accents in the proper pinyin transliteration? john k 21:00, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Well, seeing as nobody responded to me for 14 months, I figured I might as well go ahead and do it. john k 18:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Tell us or link about those stereotypes you mention.
you have two identical looking links to zh.wikipedia.org ... looks bad.
Note: Taiwanese info shouldn't appear in this article because of nPOV-- Bonafide.hustla 01:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
this map distinctly calls the HK SAR an administrative division. I hope I never see this conversation again as it has occurred about ten times on different articles. SchmuckyTheCat 15:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
What are the requirements for the following subdivisions in population, area etc.? jlog3000 ( talk) 15:32, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
In April I removed information that was specific to the ROC from this article. It's confusing to find ROC information in the middle of a PRC article, more importantly, the ROC has its own article. This was removed, as were dab headers and a PRC-specific template
The appropriate split for these articles is pretty basic. The PRC article should define how the PRC divides its territory, and claimed territory. The ROC article should define how the ROC divides its territory, and claimed territory.
Based on this, I'm restoring the PRC specific stuff that was removed, and again removing things specific to the ROC that are duplicated from the ROC article. Please discuss what problems you see in this. SchmuckyTheCat — Preceding undated comment added 19:34, 7 June 2007
The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR ( talk) 17:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Given the current NPOV conventions, this article should be renamed to "Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China". It is clearly a political topic, and so in any other article we would be using "PRC" instead of "China". While I believe, and have argued extensively on talk:China, that the common meaning for "China" is the PRC, there has been no consensus on that point. So long as that remains the case, this article needs to be called "Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China" Readin ( talk) 13:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps we need three articles - one focused on PRC, one focused on history, and one focused on ROC. Or as an alternative we could just put the historical stuff here if we decide to keep this article about the PRC. Making this article about both the PRC and ROC would be confusing and extremely difficult to maintain NPOV. This article already has an NPOV problem because it purports to be about administrative divisions of "China", yet it shows Taiwan as an administrative division. If the article were called "Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China", the fictional Taiwan Province would fit into the article as a fiction of the PRC. But right now the article is supposedly about China, the connection is unclear. Readin ( talk) 22:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Then we should split the article into three: pre 1949, administrative divisions of PRC, and administrative divisions of ROC. Readin ( talk) 06:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry to interrupt the political discussions here, but I was wondering about the use of the word "province-level" in this article. I hope I might be forgiven for saying this, but it seems a rather impoverished or debased usage to me. The normal term in English is surely "provincial-level". I'm not sure where "province-level" came from. Is it the official usage of the Chinese government? Or is it just a Wikipedia usage, started by or Chinese co-editors translating 省级 literally into English as they understood it should be? I would be curious to know. If you Google "province-level" and "provincial-level", you get more than five times as many hits for "provincial-level" than you do for "province-level". And I'm sure that not all of those "proviince-levels" are by native speakers of English, since websites based in China, etc., seem to be up there pretty high among the results.
Would be quite interested in hearing editors' understanding of the reasons for this usage.
Bathrobe ( talk) 13:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
As I understand, "province level" as it is used in this context it a direct reference to the structure of the Chinese government, just as the terms "Prefecture Level" or "County Level" refer to smaller divisions within that structure. Although it may be an awkward usage, it is, so far as I know, the official government usage - although that is wildly inconsistent here in China. The reason, as made clear by the table in the article, is that not all "Province-Level" administrative units are actually provinces. (The same is true of the subdivisions as well.) Autonomous Regions, Special Administrative Regions, and some exceptionally large Municipalities are all given provincial status, thus forming a "Province-level" administrative status.
Why not use "Provincial-level"? I would argue that provincial-level actually has a different meaning. If I say "That issue will be solved on the provincial level." I do not refer to the administrative classification of provinces and province-like-units. Instead I am referring to the delegation of an issue to the individual provinces. (Province-level administrations deal with problems on the provincial level." Another possible meaning could be something which extends throughout an entire province. Exempli Gratia: "What was once a local craze has grown to a provincial-level mania."
Granted, other countries use the term "provincial-level" in reference to the administrative structures, but then again, other countries have different administrative structures. Ultimately, although it may be frustrating, I've found that it is genuinely worthwhile to accept the awkward Chinglish jargon when it refers specifically to something within the Chinese context, being as it will be the most precise. Think of it as a neologism coined for the specific purpose of accurately describing the Chinese bureaucracy. The alternative is to use more fluent terms, but which contain different nuances, and sometimes radically different implications, which can lead to misconceptions or confusion.
Ouyangwulong ( talk) 03:05, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Apparently in Heilongjiang province, some counties have a subdivision equivalent to a township (镇/乡) called a Forestry Office (林业局) -- see, e.g., zh:巴彦县 (obviously different from an administrative agency such as 国家林业局)...this really seems to be a widespread phenomenon, see also zh:萝北县, zh:通河县, zh:方正县, zh:五常市, zh:方正县-- Dpr ( talk) 10:51, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
What autonomous regions, prefectures and counties were in China? When I get information about them?-- Kaiyr ( talk) 08:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move. -- tariqabjotu 05:43, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China → Administrative divisions of China – per WP:COMMONNAME and other related articles: China, Politics of China, Geography of China, Government of China. 204.140.158.132 ( talk) 17:57, 23 July 2013 (UTC)
Where I can fid map of Guangxi and Zhuang autonomous region for 1952-1958 year?-- Kaiyr ( talk) 13:57, 5 July 2014 (UTC)