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Are there any consonants which occur only ungeminated in the Bzyp Sadz dialect of Abkhazian? --
88.76.251.11 14:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Are there any consonants which occur only geminated in the Bzyp Sadz dialect of Abkhazian? --
88.76.248.25 09:39, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
The phonology of these languages seems to me very similar —Preceding unsigned comment added by Segnor Bugatti ( talk • contribs) 17:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
The text beneath the table refers to red and green letters, but I don't see any coloured entries in the table. Did they get lost in an edit somewhere? -- pne (talk) 11:07, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm vision impaired and I still can't differentiate the dark green and blue from black! I'll add asterisk (*) and dagger (†) as per the description within the article itself, but keep the colours unchanged for those who use them. 121.45.172.20 ( talk) 03:43, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
So there's seems to be quite a lot of uncertainty in regards to this vowel, the description here being: >and a close vowel /ɨ ~ ə/. The page only cites one source, and there [1] it's referred simply as a "close vowel". Chirikba [2] refers to it as a high close vowel. Another paper by Bert Vaux [3], first mentions that "The phonemic status of ә is disputed" and "will be assumed here for ease of exposition", and then he generalises it saying it's [ɨ] for simplification. I want to argue that the vowel 'ә' isn't as high as [ɨ], and [ɘ] would be a better description for the sound in general. In the book "Грамматика абхазского языка: фонетика и морфология" [4], they make it very clear that the ы in Abkhaz, and the ы in Russian are different sounds [5]. The first indication that 'ы' isn't [ɨ] comes from this passage:
>гласный ы по сравнению с а является более закрытым, что зависит от более высокого положению языка. По сравнению с абхазским ы, русское ы по положению языка более задний и более закрытый гласный.
Translation by google translate
> The vowel ы is more closed than a, which depends on the higher position of the tongue. Compared to Abkhaz ы, the Russian ы is a more back and close vowel by the position of the tongue.
This part alone saying that the Russian 'ы' is more closed, should be enough to say that the Abkhaz 'ы' is probably [ɘ] or [ɘ̝]. The next relevant passage I'll mention is this:
> During articulations of ы, the tip of the tongue touches the crowns of the lower incisors so that the anterior part of the tongue at the level of the canines rises somewhat above the level of the lower incisors. the cavity of the pharynx(?) is a resonator, tapering slightly in its upper part. The oral cavity is a tube, the wide part of which is turned backward, and the narrow part is forward.
So to close my case, I say we should present [ɘ] as one of the main realisations of 'ы' Lugë Ushqimi ( talk) 02:34, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
References
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The article now says:
“ | Abkhaz has only two distinctive vowels: an open vowel /a/ and a close vowel /ɨ ~ ə/. These basic vowels have a wide range of allophones in different consonantal environments, with allophones [e] and [i] respectively next to palatals, [o] and [u] next to labials, and [ø] and [y] next to labiopalatals | ” |
Unfortunately there is no source for it. Chirikba 2003 says that "[o] is the phonetic realization of the sequences aw, wa and awa, as well as the allophone of /a/ in contact with the labialized consonants. [e] is the allophone of /a/ in combinations /aj/ = [ej], /ja/ = [je] ..., or in combinations "palatalized consonant+a" ... . [i] is the allophone of /ə/ in sequences /jə/, /əj/, or in combinations of /ə/ with the palatalized consonants. Finally, [u] appears as the realization of phonemic sequences wə, əw, and of combinations of labialized consonants with schwa." [1] It's close enough but he doesn't mention [ø] and [y]. Hewitt 1979 adds that /a/ can be realised as Close_central_unrounded_vowel ([ɨ]) (not Close_front_rounded_vowel ([y]) and /ə/ can be realised as Close-mid_central_rounded_vowel ([ɵ]) (not Close-mid_front_rounded_vowel [ø]). [2] Should we follow Hewitt 1979 and update the article? Lugë Ushqimi, I'm pinging you as you have edited the article recently. Alaexis ¿question? 06:55, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
Unlike Chirikba and Hewitt, folks at northeuralex (University of Tubingen project) use [ɛ] and [ɔ] in their IPA transcriptions instead of [e] and [o]. Is there a good reason for that? Should we note it in the article? Alaexis ¿question? 07:10, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
References
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