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Archive 1 |
It seems to me this one line section not only goes against the style manual, but is also completely superfluous, and the source link cited is an opinion piece, and doesn't exactly seem credible.
In addition, it would be nice to clean up the Reception section which is currently exceedingly verbose and redundant. I don't think we need to quote every critic's opinion on this show. Why is IGN a relevant source for film critique, for instance? --
201.52.35.121 (
talk) 05:28, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
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Could this be added to the "Social impact" section?
Australian youth mental health service for 12-25 year-olds headspace, issued a warning in late April 2017 over the graphic content featured in the series due to the increased number of calls to the service following the show's release in the country. [1] [2] [3] 121.214.113.242 ( talk) 12:51, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
References
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Add to Social Impact section: The show "13 reasons why" has received several criticisms about the danger of depicting suicide in a positive light. Several news agencies and celebrities have come out against the show for this reason. 184.90.236.77 ( talk) 20:26, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
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Could this be added to the "Mental health controversy" section?
Psychologists have said the series' portrayal of suicide can lead to the increase of a phenomenon known as "suicide contagion" among teenagers and young adults. Clinical psychologist Erika Martinez said, "For Millennials and Generation Z, what they see in media is canon... it can certainly glamorize suicide and lead to this copycat sort of effect." [1] [2] 121.214.165.96 ( talk) 01:36, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
References
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Can you please change the wording in the description of the show that says "series of culminating failures." Only because it sounds like it was her own failures in life made her commit suicide. I just don't want people to feel like they are failures. Thanks. Rking5555 ( talk) 20:44, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
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change experiences that triggered her to experiences that triggered her suicide 47.187.104.125 ( talk) 04:22, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
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Merge the "Mental health controversy" section with reception and remove mention from the lead.
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Can someone remove "female audience" from the introductory sentence?
"Originally conceived as a film set to be released by Universal Pictures for a female audience with Selena Gomez in the lead role, the adaptation was picked up as a television series by Netflix in late 2015. Gomez served as an executive producer."
There is no source to support such a claim, all I know is that the book is aimed at a teen/young adult audience and is not gender specific. 110.149.140.84 ( talk) 12:01, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
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Could this be added to the "Critical response" section?
Psychologists have said the series' portrayal of suicide can lead to the increase of a phenomenon known as "suicide contagion" among teenagers and young adults. Clinical psychologist Erika Martinez said, "For Millennials and Generation Z, what they see in media is canon... it can certainly glamorize suicide and lead to this copycat sort of effect." [1]
References
121.220.3.123 ( talk) 00:40, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
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Can this be added to the "Critical reception" section?
In response to the graphic nature of the show and New Zealand's high youth suicide rates, which are the highest in the developed world, censors in the country created a new television rating, "RP18" allowing individuals over the age of 18 to watch the series alone and those below having to watch it with supervision from a parent or guardian. [1] [2] 121.219.253.81 ( talk) 11:38, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
References
In the description for Episode 7, the article reads "Clay is having both audial and visual hallucinations..." which should be auditory hallucinations (is audial even a word?) and probably link out to the article. Please fix. 2601:145:4004:590:DD4D:BB05:6C1D:381C ( talk) 18:44, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
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How about we put it back, with the links to the sources that said that? It is very important to note that this show has literally violated every guideline on reporting suicide and that experts are very concerned. I remember the part that was deleted did link to the reporting guidelines, and a simple google search reviles dozens of articles with major concerns with this show and Netflix's responsibility in ignoring the people they consulted.
Etc, Etc.
98.233.83.153 ( talk) 22:31, 24 April 2017 (UTC)Heather
It seems laughable that this article is concerned about NPOV. Every mental health agency that has weighed in on the subject has been highly critical but this whole article reads like it was written by a PR firm. Since when is including the controversy of a highly controversial topic, with sources, "too much attention?" Gtheule ( talk) 04:40, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
every mental health agency that has weighed in on the subject, doesn't mean we have to present all of their opinions in the article. "Paying too much attention" is not
including the controversy of a highly controversial topic, with sources, it's weighing unduly towards criticism; I thought that would be pretty self-explanatory, apparently not. -- ChamithN (talk) 06:28, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
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hannah is clay 138.25.131.51 ( talk) 03:46, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Is there any reason to suppose this will be continued? As far as I understand it is a complete serialization of the stand alone novel of the same title, so why would it be called "First" season? -- 5.146.47.75 ( talk) 17:15, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
I'd suggest that the suicide of Franco Alonso Lazo Medrano this past week mimicking the plotline of 13 Reasons Why, and suspected to be inspired by the show, be added to this system. I'm not making this edit myself since this page has been vandolized several times and I haven't edited this page in the past. This hasn't gotten a ton of press outside of Peru and a few side publications, but seems fairly serious and a good example of what other items are discussing in the Societal Impact section. -- Immediate-retrospective ( talk) 14:32, 12 June 2017 (UTC)
A couple things. I've seen us flop back and forth between "with..." and "without Justin's consent" in the episode description, so I removed the phrase temporarily. It seemed to me when watching the show that this was done not only without Justin's consent but in spite of unsuccessful attempts to stop it from happening. Maybe I interpreted this differently than others did. Thoughts? Also, any outcomes will potentially change the phrase (under tape subject), "Justin Foley, for allowing Bryce to rape his girlfriend Jessica." Again, I did not interpret Justin's actions as "allowing" Bryce to do anything. Rather, he appeared to be too drunk to physically stop Bryce. Again, just my two cents. But we should really settle on a description rather than flip-flop on our wording. - RM ( talk) 00:23, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
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Under the Social Impact heading add the following text:
A study published in JAMA Internal Medicine [1] found the release of 13 Reasons Why corresponded with between 900,000 and 1,500,000 more suicide related searches in the United States, including a 26% increase in searches for “how to commit suicide” a 18% increase for “commit suicide” and 9% increase for “how to kill yourself.” The study's authors told CNN "the show's makers must swiftly change their course of action, including removing the show and postponing a second season" because of its role as a trigger for those suffering with suicidal thoughts.
[1] http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2646773 [2] http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/31/health/13-reasons-why-suicide-study/index.html D wiki 54 ( talk) 23:37, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
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Under Reception --> Audience Viewership, marketing research company "Jumpshot" is mislabeled as "Jumpstart". 136.24.41.34 ( talk) 20:54, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello! I added a link to Wikiversity, under External Links, where there are learning resources for 13 Reasons Why. The page breaks down each episode, explains the psychological phenomena, and lists resources where people could seek help. I would be so glad if anyone would be interested in viewing and editing the information on there! My aim is to help provide more context to the movie for those interested, and hopefully guide people towards seeking help if they need it! Ongmianli ( talk) 23:42, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
Why is Season 2 being hidden? There is nothing in MOS:TV about hiding a season table for an upcoming Netflix season until the season has been released; see Luke Cage (season 2) as an example, that is another upcoming Netflix season. If the titles and dates are available, then that's enough to display the table, as it is for any show that would air on television as well. There's no difference. How is it premature? -- Alex TW 13:25, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
I added one and two. Warsong66 ( talk) 09:53, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Do we want to add who from the recurring characters list appeared in what season? Like, Chlöe was only in season 2, do we want to note that? (Also not done the season yet, or I would)-- QueerFilmNerd ( talk) 21:24, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Katherine Langford narrates season 1 but each episode in season 2 seems to be narrated by a different actor/character. Listing every single narrator is obviously not ideal but maybe we should do something like Katherine Langford (season 1) and then Various (season 2)? Dhalh ( talk) 05:06, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
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Hello I am Ivan Lisandro Garcia (age 16) , and I would like to do an expansion on the section of season two of 13 reasons why. I feel like I am prepared for this because I have watched the full series and feel like I can write for this section of the article. Also, I have considered suicide so I feel like I am fit to do this section of 13 reasons why 96.40.160.71 ( talk) 00:30, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello, I want to know if I can copy some text from this web page.-- Philip J Fry Talk 02:12, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
TimmyAU and Brojam, there are obviously strong opinions about including production info in the lede. It is standard practice to include a potted history of no more than a sentence or two for production, especially if - in this case - there is anomalous detail, such as it being originally a film planned, rather than a series.
Additionally, the names of those removed and the production companies all appear in the article in the infobox and in the Production section of the article with sources to back up the claims. Factoids in the lede do not need to be sourced, so long as they are sourced in the article itself - as these are.
TimmyAU, can you rationalise why the info should not be present? Thanks. Chaheel Riens ( talk) 17:28, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
Ok, first, I probably need to apologise to all involved for drinking way too much sometimes and becoming somewhat.. useless as a contributor? Also, whilst alcohol and writing are close partners, fixation and intoxication are lovers. Therefore, please let me say sorry for stupid things previously written.
In consideration of my strong opinions about including production info in the lede, it basically comes down to how Google interprets the data we feed into the web. I have a strong belief that the text displayed by Google in an organic search ought to both inform and interest its reader. Prolonged details about production of a film or TV series are a category in themselves, and ought to be allocated to a latter category, further down in the wikipedia article. The first two sentences of the article needs to sympathise with the plight of the Google searcher, what they are looking for and how they might encounter it.
I don't like the fact that Google commands so much influence, but i advocate for the searcher who lazily accepts the Google algorithm as their informer without any consideration: I want that lazy, stupid searcher to get an immediate sense of their searched topic and so I really want to see the first two sentences of a wikipedia article to reflect an overall sense of the topic: especially when it's a film or TV series.
Hope this soberly clarifies my potentially valid view: credibility tainted; behaviour bad history; intentions honourable (I Hope). — Preceding unsigned comment added by TimmyAU ( talk • contribs) 14:51, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
Or Chloë? Or Chloe? MBG02 ( talk) 22:58, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
13 Reasons Why it has more than two seasons and was confirmed for a third would not it be better to split into a list of episodes? Fábio47447 ( talk) 18:29, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
That sentence is going to need to be changed, obviously. 111.220.121.41 ( talk) 00:36, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Also, adding some sort of Controversy/Backlash section seems like an appropriate way to break up the overly long Critical Response section. 111.220.121.41 ( talk) 00:38, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Where's the best place to incorporate this into the article? Thanks. Nice4What ( talk · contribs) – (Don't forget to share a Thanks ♥) 17:08, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
Under the guidelines of WP:MEDRS, this pair of studies is the best evidence on the question of whether 13 Reasons Why caused increased suicides. This is a meta-analysis, which is a review of all the previous studies; the editorial is a commentary on the meta-analysis, which is even better evidence under WP:MEDRS. The big question they're trying to answer is whether it's merely association (which is proven) or causation. Their use of the word "media contagion" indicates causation.
I think a good way to summarize this for Wikipedia would be,
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2734859
May 29, 2019
Association of Increased Youth Suicides in the United States With the Release of 13 Reasons Why
Thomas Niederkrotenthaler, MD, PhD, MMSc1; Steven Stack, PhD2; Benedikt Till, DSc1; et al Mark Sinyor, MSc, MD3,4; Jane Pirkis, PhD5,6; David Garcia, DSc7,8; Ian R. H. Rockett, PhD, MPH9,10; Ulrich S. Tran, DSc11
JAMA Psychiatry.
doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2019.0922
Question Was the release of the Netflix show 13 Reasons Why associated with excess suicides in the United States?
Findings In this time series analysis of monthly suicide data from 1999 to 2017, an immediate increase in suicides beyond the generally increasing trend was observed among the target audience of 10- to 19-year-old individuals in the 3 months after the show’s release. Age- and sex-specific models indicated that the association with suicide mortality was restricted to 10- to 19-year-old individuals, and proportional increases were stronger in females.
Meaning The increase in suicides in only the youth population and the signal of a potentially larger proportional increase in young females all appeared to be consistent with media contagion and seem to reinforce the need for safer and more thoughtful portrayal of suicide in the media.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/2734855
Editorial
May 29, 2019
Media Portrayals and Public Health Implications for Suicide and Other Behaviors
Tyler J. VanderWeele, PhD1,2; Maya B. Mathur, PhD1,3; Ying Chen, ScD2
JAMA Psychiatry.
doi:10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2019.0842
In this issue of JAMA Psychiatry, Niederkrotenthaler et al provide strong evidence from a time series analysis that the Netflix series 13 Reasons Why, which portrayed the suicide of a 17-year-old girl, led to an approximately 13% increase in suicides for youth aged 10 to 19 years in the 3 months that followed its release; they estimated approximately 94 excess suicides in those months owing to the series. No similar percentage increase was seen in any other age group.
-- Nbauman ( talk) 15:22, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
I don’t if anyone can agree with me, but I want to create individual and separate articles for the seasons of 13 reasons why, because for me the series deserve their own space separated. Well I want them separated so they can have more distribution, that’s my point of view. I'm waiting for your answers. Alvrix3108 ( talk) 00:33, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have declined the drafts for 13 Reasons Why (season 1) and 13 Reasons Why (season 2). This is not because I think that we should not have separate articles on the two seasons, or because I think that we should have separate articles, but because a centralized discussion is in order on whether to create season articles. If there is rough consensus for season articles, the drafts may be resubmitted after discussion. Robert McClenon ( talk) 21:28, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
I don’t agree. I want expanded information to the seasons, because I think that’s would be better or the entire series. So I would like separate articles by season.
Alvrix3108 (
talk) 00:36, 24 May 2020 (UTC)—
Alvrix3108 (
talk •
contribs) is
blocked for having used sockpuppets in this debate.
Yeah I agree with him, I think that would be better if separate articles for each season of the series is made. Only a suggestion
Babylik345 (
talk) 00:47, 24 May 2020 (UTC)—
Babylik345 (
talk ·
contribs) is a confirmed
sock puppet of
Alvrix3108 (
talk ·
contribs).
I agree with him. I really prefer separate articles because that can give much more information for each individual page. I suggest to allow him to create the pages of each seasons.
Cullen2456 (
talk) 01:03, 24 May 2020 (UTC)—
Cullen2456 (
talk ·
contribs) is a confirmed
sock puppet of
Alvrix3108 (
talk ·
contribs).
Yes allow him to create this articles of seasons. This is gonna give much more information about this, so it's gonna be much more easy to get information of each season.
Wilkinson2405 (
talk) 01:11, 24 May 2020 (UTC) —
Wilkinson2405 (
talk ·
contribs) is a confirmed
sock puppet of
Alvrix3108 (
talk ·
contribs).
My recommendation is to create drafts for every season and see if there is enough real world information to justify making articles for seasons 2, 3, and 4. The article has to have enough out of universe information via casting and development and such sections. I do believe episodes should be moved, by the time we get to season 4 and the episodes are added they're going to be taking up a chunk of space, it's just determining where they go. QueerFilmNerd talk 08:06, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
Note: Babylik345, Cullen2456, and Wilkinson2405 are sock puppets of Alvrix3108 which is confirmed: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Alvrix3108. — YoungForever (talk) 22:13, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Okay, let's nail down whether there is enough to split this. You can choose: Split by season (creates 3 articles, (4 if you include a separate list), Split to list of episodes (creates 1 article), or Keep in main (no split) AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 04:41, 25 May 2020 (UTC) updated 00:51, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
I want to apology for all the changes I did to the series, and using different accounts. I was obsessed so I think it would be a good idea. Please forgive me for what I did. Alvrix3108 ( talk) 04:57, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
I saw that what should be strictly about the broadcast of the series is loaded with non-broadcast related content. Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Television#Release, this section is for information about the premiere, season renewals, final episode; network changes; noteworthy international network(s); distribution deals. //Home media// is a subsection of Release. Per MOS, the Release section is not for content about reviews, audience reaction, and awards. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 07:26, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Someone keeps making edits to Justin’s section removing his death. I understand his death is at the series finale and is a spoiler, but for the sake of consistency, either remove it and everyone else's death in the character description or keep it. Conmon1015 ( talk) 16:01, 1 August 2020 (UTC) Spoiler
The "Controversy" section needs a major cleanup. This section and its subordinate "Criticisms" section contain a lot of redundant and contradictory information. Clearly, there are two sides to the issue regarding this series' controversy: does the fictional depiction of suicide engender a real world rise in suicide rates among the show's audience. I believe the section needs to be organized in something of a pro/con manner to present both sides of the issue, with the reliable sources available for each. WikiDan61 ChatMe! ReadMe!! 13:21, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
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